zx14r09se
Novice Class
Posts: 92
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posted February 22, 2010 02:46 PM
advence timing a stock 14???
is there a benefit of advencing the timing on a 14? if so... on a stock motor how mutch degre is needed to get the max hp... thanks its a 09 model
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Red1
Expert Class
Posts: 442
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posted February 22, 2010 03:57 PM
+4 degrees...be sure to use good fuel so you don't get any detonation!!
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zx14r09se
Novice Class
Posts: 92
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posted February 22, 2010 04:10 PM
thanks... im on regular gas... will i have to go with unleaded gas?? and will 2 degres do some good .. i did read a bite on that and the 4 degre had a lost of hp with dyno charts
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jpooch00
Novice Class
Posts: 77
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posted February 22, 2010 04:14 PM
 Edited By: jpooch00 on 23 Feb 2010 00:16
quote:
thanks... im on regular gas... will i have to go with unleaded gas?? and will 2 degres do some good .. i did read a bite on that and the 4 degre had a lost of hp with dyno charts
Uh, regular gas IS unleaded gas. I think what you meant was would you need Premium gas, and I'm pretty sure that you would.
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zx14r09se
Novice Class
Posts: 92
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posted February 22, 2010 04:16 PM
oupssss i meen super
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dakota9498
Pro
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posted February 22, 2010 04:22 PM
My stock 08 Z14 recommends 90+ octane on the tank sticker anyway.
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2008 ZX14
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eklipse636
Needs a life
ZX-14
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posted February 22, 2010 04:51 PM
quote:
My stock 08 Z14 recommends 90+ octane on the tank sticker anyway.
all of them do, but a lot of guys run 87 that race.
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dakota9498
Pro
Posts: 1181
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posted February 22, 2010 04:55 PM
quote:
quote:
My stock 08 Z14 recommends 90+ octane on the tank sticker anyway.
all of them do, but a lot of guys run 87 that race.
And it probably would be fine, but before I stretched and lowered it, if it wasn't a race weekend, I was out in the canyons and mountains, and the elevation was kind of high, so with that i am not sure it would have done so well.
Plus the track that I race at is 1800 feet elevation and the density altitude is usually close to 3000 feet.
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2008 ZX14
Never argue with a fool, onlookers may not be able to tell the difference. ~Mark Twain
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madnessracing
Pro
Vmax and Busa Beater
Posts: 1140
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posted February 22, 2010 05:24 PM
what kind of gains do you get advancing the timing?
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gilberjj
Needs a job
Friend of Fast
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posted February 22, 2010 05:35 PM
quote:
thanks... im on regular gas... will i have to go with unleaded gas?? and will 2 degres do some good .. i did read a bite on that and the 4 degre had a lost of hp with dyno charts
Just so you know, each line is 2 degrees.
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bad ass 14
Expert Class
Posts: 257
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posted February 23, 2010 06:02 AM
Where did you read that the advancer lessens hp on dyno charts. I just put mine in but haven't tried it out yet because of the weather. I e-mailed Schnitz about the advancer and he said advanced 4 degrees that I would notice modest gains at lower and mid range. Go on his website and he has dyno comparisons before and after. Less power? Oh god no! Not that!
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SixSixoh6
Zone Head
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posted February 23, 2010 09:59 AM
if any of you actually looked up what :"advancing timing" does, you will find a VERY interesting article on it to what it happening inside your engine whenever this is done.
in theory yes it will make more power. TOO much advance and BANG!!!
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2006 ZX-14: Murdered out, in the dirt, extended, sprayed, air shifted, geared--GONE
2009 ZX-14 SE--has two wheels and an engine
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SixSixoh6
Zone Head
Posts: 660
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posted February 23, 2010 10:01 AM
http://www.team-integra.net/sections/articles/showArticle.asp?ArticleID=235
if someone could assist on the link. here it is.
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2006 ZX-14: Murdered out, in the dirt, extended, sprayed, air shifted, geared--GONE
2009 ZX-14 SE--has two wheels and an engine
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bad ass 14
Expert Class
Posts: 257
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posted February 23, 2010 10:17 AM
Good point. I guess that's why most people agree that 4 degrees is sufficient anymore and that's where the bang theory comes in play. I do know that when running a turbo you have to retard it.
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Superman T
Pro
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posted February 23, 2010 11:16 AM
http://www.team-integra.net/sections/articles/showArticle.asp?ArticleID=235
here you go
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zx14r09se
Novice Class
Posts: 92
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posted February 27, 2010 06:16 PM
i think ill go with the 4 degre and see... thanks guys...
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JDC
Zone Head
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posted February 27, 2010 08:57 PM
I did (Muzzy)4 deg adv on 08 and nothing appreciable from tuning to it off dynojet for best TTD.
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CraigChrist
Pro
BAWLS
Posts: 1043
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posted February 27, 2010 09:21 PM
quote:
quote:
quote:
My stock 08 Z14 recommends 90+ octane on the tank sticker anyway.
all of them do, but a lot of guys run 87 that race.
And it probably would be fine, but before I stretched and lowered it, if it wasn't a race weekend, I was out in the canyons and mountains, and the elevation was kind of high, so with that i am not sure it would have done so well.
Plus the track that I race at is 1800 feet elevation and the density altitude is usually close to 3000 feet.
I run nothing but 87 in my bike. You can't really tell much via the ass dyno, but at the track I've had to run super when I ran completely out of gas and lost about .04 because of it. This was when I was running a very consistent 6.40-6.41. Not a huge loss, but a loss nonetheless. The way I see it... If you are worried about hurting your engine, 91 is cheap insurance. I've got 18k miles on my bike now with no worries though.
BTW, your density altitude is close to 3000 ft this time of year. Wait until this summer. You'll see some 5-6k air.
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1/8th------5.97
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01smokes
Needs a job
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posted February 28, 2010 01:07 AM
quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
My stock 08 Z14 recommends 90+ octane on the tank sticker anyway.
all of them do, but a lot of guys run 87 that race.
And it probably would be fine, but before I stretched and lowered it, if it wasn't a race weekend, I was out in the canyons and mountains, and the elevation was kind of high, so with that i am not sure it would have done so well.
Plus the track that I race at is 1800 feet elevation and the density altitude is usually close to 3000 feet.
I run nothing but 87 in my bike. You can't really tell much via the ass dyno, but at the track I've had to run super when I ran completely out of gas and lost about .04 because of it. This was when I was running a very consistent 6.40-6.41. Not a huge loss, but a loss nonetheless. The way I see it... If you are worried about hurting your engine, 91 is cheap insurance. I've got 18k miles on my bike now with no worries though.
BTW, your density altitude is close to 3000 ft this time of year. Wait until this summer. You'll see some 5-6k air.
right now in ABQ New Mexico the DA is 5700' its 2:05AM and its 30* outside this sucks just wait till i post up DA numbers from summer time lol
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zx14r09se
Novice Class
Posts: 92
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posted February 28, 2010 04:32 AM
im running 87 gas to and when i did with premium i notice that when i open at full throtle when im in low rpm and in hi gear the motor sounds like it is pinking a bite just befor it gets to a higher rpm( i think that all kawi are made that way) and with 87 gas its better ,,,my buddy Bruno Nadeau has a motty afr tuner a r77 yosh and a race filter and it dosent do it att all and he has a better response on his bike... my question is...if i advence tunnig will it help or not at all
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Y2KZX12R
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posted February 28, 2010 05:19 AM
The only way to know how your engine will respond to more ignition timing advance is to test on the dyno.
Put in the fuel that you are going to run on a regular basis.
Do several sweep pulls and get a repeatable graph so that there is no difference in runs. Add 3 degrees to the entire 100% throttle map and do a few more sweep pulls and compare.
Whatever rpms it made more power with the 3 degrees add 3 more. Any rpm where it didn't make more power remove the 3 degrees. Keep repeating this. It will take several pulls and repeating this process to get the 100% throttle timing map correct.
Every bike will be different due to variations in compression, cam timing, pipe, fuel, etc.
I dont recommend running any fuel with an octane rating below 90 or so on a stock compression engine.
I don't recommend a mechanical advancer, its best to set the timing in the map itself. Mechanical advancers add the same timing to the entire map. And it changes the injector timing offset as well.
Typically most bikes like a few degrees of ignition advance across the board and then a few more above 8000 and a few more above 10,000.
My 1427 cc zx12r with BIG cams liked 10 degrees of added advance from factory above 10,000 rpm. but only 4 degrees below 6000 rpm.
In any case you have to make a timing map on the dyno and you need to adjust the a/f ratio while you are making timing changes. As the timing adds power you will need to add fuel to keep the a/f ratio where you want it. You will see it lean out with timing.
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Y2KZX12R
CompetitionCNC.com
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zx14r09se
Novice Class
Posts: 92
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posted February 28, 2010 06:05 AM
Thanks Y2k it makes me back off for the mecanical timing advence and by the way i had a zx12 2000 red and that was one heck of a bike i loved it so mutch to bad i blow the motor and i was sick for the zx14 i dont know witch one i prefert...the 14 suspention sucks not as stable as the 12R but im working on it
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Y2KZX12R
Needs a job
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posted February 28, 2010 06:26 AM
quote:
Thanks Y2k it makes me back off for the mecanical timing advence and by the way i had a zx12 2000 red and that was one heck of a bike i loved it so mutch to bad i blow the motor and i was sick for the zx14 i dont know witch one i prefert...the 14 suspention sucks not as stable as the 12R but im working on it
I just sold the 2000 12r and i'm looking for a 14 to suit my needs. I havent heard that about the zx14 suspension before.... interesting.
The 14 will be a drag and LSR only bike, so Its going to get suspension work anyway.
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SixSixoh6
Zone Head
Posts: 660
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posted February 28, 2010 12:42 PM
quote:
quote:
thanks... im on regular gas... will i have to go with unleaded gas?? and will 2 degres do some good .. i did read a bite on that and the 4 degre had a lost of hp with dyno charts
Just so you know, each line is 2 degrees.
each is 2??? i swear on the back of the package it said each one was 5, so i have it set halfway between "0" and the first mark...i better call muzzy or schnitz on this
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2006 ZX-14: Murdered out, in the dirt, extended, sprayed, air shifted, geared--GONE
2009 ZX-14 SE--has two wheels and an engine
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