Hellmutt
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posted February 16, 2010 01:43 PM
Timing chain startup chatter
I know there's alot of threadchat on the hydraulic timing chain chatter at startup on the Connies and zx14's -- what I'm not seeing is anyone recommending Lucas Oil additive for help with this hideous noise a lot of us have experienced when starting our beloved Kawi's. The company I work for peddle's Lucas Oil products so I started using Lucas additive early last year when I did my first oil change on my '08 ZX14 after buying it and noticing the same scenario -- don't get me wrong, it won't completely eliminate the noise but it does keep it at a more tolerable audible level because Lucas Oil basically helps the engine/case oil adhere to all the internals......engine running or not.
NOTE - your bike may start just a bit harder in the bitter cold months, but other than that you won't notice a bit of difference except at startup. It helped with my bike's chain chatter so I thought I'd share this handy info for those that use their bikes on the street, and some peace of mind knowing there's plenty of lube on the chain before you ever twist the key and hit the button.
I DO NOT RECOMMEND using this product for drag/racing applications since thinner oil is usually what these bikes desire to spool up quicker and Lucas will prohibit that extra bit of performance that is so desperately needed.
HOPE THIS HELPS ANYONE AFTER SOME PEACE OF MIND WITH THIS CONSTANT PROBLEM 
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British flying couch with endtables and an orange thumper
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14nooby
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posted February 16, 2010 02:18 PM
Thanks for your input but I personally would not add Lucas oil additive to a motorcycle. The tolerances are too close and basically throwing 90w gear oil into your bike that turns 13000 rpms does not seem like a good idea. imo
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14nooby
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posted February 16, 2010 02:30 PM
Forgot to mention clutch grab as well. Adding that thick oil will make your clutch really grabby.
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INTIMIDA2OR
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posted February 16, 2010 03:07 PM
I use the lucas full synthetic additive and the bike loves it 
Still have the rattle though.
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'06 Passion Red ZX-14
*Lee*
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eklipse636
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posted February 16, 2010 03:24 PM
Indont know how the thick oil would work with the clutch as well.. Thanks for sharing!
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INTIMIDA2OR
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posted February 16, 2010 03:29 PM
Well ya know you're not supposed to use the whole bottle, just a tad to help the oil cling to the parts is all.
Doesn't really make the oil thicker , just stickier.
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'06 Passion Red ZX-14
*Lee*
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14nooby
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posted February 16, 2010 03:38 PM
If I had an old beater car or bike I would not hesitate to throw some lucas in it. Lucas is really designed for use in vehicles with high mileage and internal bearing noise. Lucas makes great products.
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eklipse636
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posted February 16, 2010 05:17 PM
quote:
Well ya know you're not supposed to use the whole bottle, just a tad to help the oil cling to the parts is all.
Doesn't really make the oil thicker , just stickier.
if your just using a tad, is it really helping? I'm curious. It's getting time to change the transmission fluid in my truck and I'm thinking about adding some. in that case it prob wouldn't hurt to use the whole bottle.
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Best: 60ft 1.351 1/8 5.68 mph 123.98 1/4
8.89 mph 151.32
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Hellmutt
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posted February 16, 2010 05:30 PM
couple things about Lucas additive are....
**It will NOT change the overall viscosity of the oil you're adding it to much at all, but that's been test measured "at operating temp" - that's why i mentioned cold weather starts are a little sluggish......and won't tear up your engine either due to reduced tolerance levels or higher rpm's.......just don't twist the throttle to the pin as soon as it's started and allow the temp to come up -- it'll be fine......racers use this stuff in CORR racing and motocross, possibly other types of racing too - haven't noticed it in drag racing; but if so, I'm assuming it's the full synthetic additive and leaner mixtures for those applications.
**won't negatively affect clutch life in motorcycles, but these are oem and streetable clutches they're talking about -- not lockers or drag setups......so I can't help ya with that one......but I'd ran this stuff in all of my dirtbikes and an old Thunderace YZF1000 for years & years with absolutely NO problems......hell, I even dump some in my lawn mowers yearly!
**personally, never run more than a 15-20% mix in a motorcycle just to be safe -- these things do spin up to some incredible rev's.
The fuel system treatment is good stuff too -- I always fill my tank with clean fuel and drop in about 2/3 cup before winter storage and it always starts right up come spring time after sitting for 3 months or more........and that was an old carb'd bike, so I'm sure it'll keep my injected ride clean and hesitation free too.
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INTIMIDA2OR
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posted February 16, 2010 05:51 PM
quote:
quote:
Well ya know you're not supposed to use the whole bottle, just a tad to help the oil cling to the parts is all.
Doesn't really make the oil thicker , just stickier.
if your just using a tad, is it really helping? I'm curious. It's getting time to change the transmission fluid in
my truck and I'm thinking about adding some. in that case it prob wouldn't hurt to use the whole bottle.
Yes 15% of lucas per capacity is a tad and helps a lot!
Ever seen the test display with the gears with lucas and without?
One spins butter smooth the other not so buttery. Also the lucas one always has a ton of oil at the very top gear
And the other one with plain oil is as good as dry . Same thing happens inside a motor ,virtually eliminates dry starts.
Also in older motors in cars a full bottle is needed .
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'06 Passion Red ZX-14
*Lee*
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INTIMIDA2OR
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posted February 16, 2010 05:55 PM
quote:
couple things about Lucas additive are....
**It will NOT change the overall viscosity of the oil you're adding it to much at all, but that's been test measured "at operating temp" - that's why i mentioned cold weather starts are a little sluggish......and won't tear up your engine either due to reduced tolerance levels or higher rpm's.......just don't twist the throttle to the pin as soon as it's started and allow the temp to come up -- it'll be fine......racers use this stuff in CORR racing and motocross, possibly other types of racing too - haven't noticed it in drag racing; but if so, I'm assuming it's the full synthetic additive and leaner mixtures for those applications.
**won't negatively affect clutch life in motorcycles, but these are oem and streetable clutches they're talking about -- not lockers or drag setups......so I can't help ya with that one......but I'd ran this stuff in all of my dirtbikes and an old Thunderace YZF1000 for years & years with absolutely NO problems......hell, I even dump some in my lawn mowers yearly!
**personally, never run more than a 15-20% mix in a motorcycle just to be safe -- these things do spin up to some incredible rev's.
The fuel system treatment is good stuff too -- I always fill my tank with clean fuel and drop in about 2/3 cup
before winter storage and it always starts right up come spring time after sitting for 3 months or more........and that
was an old carb'd bike, so I'm sure it'll keep my injected ride clean and hesitation free too.
What he said! 
Also the pure synthetic lucas isn't as thick but it is just as sticky!
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'06 Passion Red ZX-14
*Lee*
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dcjens
Pro
Wet side of Washington
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posted February 16, 2010 07:44 PM
hmmm infomercial material
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Black 06
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dcjens
Pro
Wet side of Washington
Posts: 1059
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posted February 16, 2010 07:45 PM
I went with a loud pipe instead..I dont hear no rattle
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Black 06
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Flame On
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Fuel Air & Spark
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posted February 16, 2010 07:46 PM
I add it to my oil after a 1000 or so miles on the change
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77 RD 400
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06 ZX14
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zx14fan
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posted February 16, 2010 11:06 PM
Do not add anything to your oil ever.Not a good idea and it can be proven.
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INTIMIDA2OR
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posted February 16, 2010 11:22 PM
quote:
Do not add anything to your oil ever.Not a good idea and it can be proven.
Yes it can be proven. I have almost 60,000 hard miles on my machine and there is 0 problems . Valve clearances have been un changed since I checked them at 15,000 miles.
At 50,000 miles when my bike was stolen , bottemed out and run out of oil , the oil pan and filter were spotless . No metal or anything.
I wouldn't tell anybody they better run Lucas , but I sure will use it
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'06 Passion Red ZX-14
*Lee*
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14nooby
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posted February 17, 2010 04:41 AM
quote:
couple things about Lucas additive are....
**It will NOT change the overall viscosity of the oil you're adding it to much at all, but that's been test measured "at operating temp" - that's why i mentioned cold weather starts are a little sluggish......and won't tear up your engine either due to reduced tolerance levels or higher rpm's.......just don't twist the throttle to the pin as soon as it's started and allow the temp to come up -- it'll be fine......racers use this stuff in CORR racing and motocross, possibly other types of racing too - haven't noticed it in drag racing; but if so, I'm assuming it's the full synthetic additive and leaner mixtures for those applications.
**won't negatively affect clutch life in motorcycles, but these are oem and streetable clutches they're talking about -- not lockers or drag setups......so I can't help ya with that one......but I'd ran this stuff in all of my dirtbikes and an old Thunderace YZF1000 for years & years with absolutely NO problems......hell, I even dump some in my lawn mowers yearly!
**personally, never run more than a 15-20% mix in a motorcycle just to be safe -- these things do spin up to some incredible rev's.
The fuel system treatment is good stuff too -- I always fill my tank with clean fuel and drop in about 2/3 cup before winter storage and it always starts right up come spring time after sitting for 3 months or more........and that was an old carb'd bike, so I'm sure it'll keep my injected ride clean and hesitation free too.
They must train all of the Lucas Oil reps to spew the same garbage. I rode for 8 hours with the outside sales rep for Lucas and heard all of the same crap. They make a great product but do not try and sell me that pouring and substituting one full quart of Lucas (90weight) oil doesn't change the overall viscosity. Thats a line of BS. Maybe you can some of the other guys on here to drink the Kool Aid but not me!!! The fuel treatment is a killer product and is one of the few that has upper cylinder lube and can also be used in diesels. Just not putting oil treatment in a brand new vehicle, car or bike!
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14nooby
Zone Head
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posted February 17, 2010 04:44 AM
quote:
hmmm infomercial material
that's what I was thinking too......
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eklipse636
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posted February 17, 2010 06:00 AM
quote:
quote:
hmmm infomercial material
that's what I was thinking too......
is he taking Billy Hayes job???
____________
Best: 60ft 1.351 1/8 5.68 mph 123.98 1/4
8.89 mph 151.32
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Hellmutt
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posted February 17, 2010 06:18 AM
 Edited By: Hellmutt on 17 Feb 2010 14:19
They must train all of the Lucas Oil reps to spew the same garbage. I rode for 8 hours with the outside sales rep for Lucas and heard all of the same crap. They make a great product but do not try and sell me that pouring and substituting one full quart of Lucas (90weight) oil doesn't change the overall viscosity. Thats a line of BS. Maybe you can some of the other guys on here to drink the Kool Aid but not me!!! The fuel treatment is a killer product and is one of the few that has upper cylinder lube and can also be used in diesels. Just not putting oil treatment in a brand new vehicle, car or bike!
NO formal training from Lucas whatsoever.........I just take initiative in researching products that can save YOU consumers money in the long run!! Yet, another personal example -- I bought a brand new truck last year and dropped the crap factory oil as soon as I got it home so I could run my choice synthetic WITH Lucas at about 22 miles on the truck.......changing the oil every 3 or 4000 miles with Lucas additive every time and a little over a year later, 33,000 miles on it and it's running quiet as a sleeping baby. I'm not bullshittin' you or puking up some sales pitch I read out of a flippin' brochure........take it how you want to, this shit works and works well. Lucas Oil sales reps are nothing more than living, breathing, advertisement websites with little technical knowledge -- the chemical engineers that designed Lucas Oil will tell you the same thing - they did their job and are far richer because of this quality product sweeping the mechanical world. Hate all you want, I know what's best for my equipment.
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14nooby
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posted February 17, 2010 07:22 AM
There are so many oil additives on the market. Zmax, Prolong, STP, Marvel and many others. They all claim the same thing. If you are basing your opinion off of the back of what you read on the bottle then that's fine. That's called marketing! Continue using Lucas and I will keep using my NASA approved ZMax.........lol
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Shane661
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posted February 17, 2010 07:28 AM
Edited By: Shane661 on 17 Feb 2010 16:22
Personally, I wouldn't put in an additive in order to quiet a 10 second chatter on startup (In my case, the noise lasts about 2 seconds or less). That is sort of like sweeping dirt under the rug. The design of the tensioner is the issue, not the oil.
Just my .02...to each their own. Glad it works for you. 
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Hellmutt
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posted February 17, 2010 08:17 AM
quote:
There are so many oil additives on the market. Zmax, Prolong, STP, Marvel and many others. They all claim the same thing. If you are basing your opinion off of the back of what you read on the bottle then that's fine. That's called marketing! Continue using Lucas and I will keep using my NASA approved ZMax.........lol
Sorry man, I'm not basing my 'opinion' on the bottles label........I work at a shop that sells hundreds of gallons of Lucas Oil every year and I get to see the results of it's perfomance every time we do work for a customer that runs it in their engine -- so I'm just stating facts about the stuff. But if you believe in ZMax, then by all means use it and make yourself happy.......I'm simply offering a suggestion to everyone to help quiet down the camchain chatter, I know it only rattles for a few seconds before oil pressure comes up but it calms me down knowing that mine doesn't "dry" start -- and it's how we feel about our own bikes that's important to each and every one of us right?
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zx14fan
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posted February 17, 2010 09:30 AM
If it works for you as shane said thats great.if you really change the oil in your truck every 3 or 4 k then you really are wasting product.Lucas point about synth oil is you can drive in longer without an oil change.most cars and some trucks recomend around 7500 miles between changes.
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INTIMIDA2OR
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posted February 17, 2010 10:15 AM
Oil is so out dated.
Imho I think there should be something else used in motors instead of oil.
Something non harmful to the environment like something water based or something .
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'06 Passion Red ZX-14
*Lee*
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