WRECKSHOP
Expert Class
Posts: 359
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posted January 08, 2010 08:11 AM
4mm Stroker on ZX14 ????
What size rods would someone need for a 4mm stroker crank ? Is custom rod lenghts neccessary or stock rod length will work ?? PLEASE HELP
  
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gilberjj
Needs a job
Friend of Fast
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posted January 08, 2010 08:16 AM
I believe you can use stock rods. i think it's the piston that's different.
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kawasakijockey
Pro
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posted January 08, 2010 08:30 AM
You can use stock rods but need 2mm pin offset pistons.
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Get on the shortbus boys 'cause its time to get schooled.
2007 ZX-14
1.38 60ft
9.03 @ 149mph
8.95 @153 small shot n2o
8.68 @160mph 5lbs boost
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06redzx14
Pro
Posts: 1022
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posted January 08, 2010 09:07 AM
stock lenght rods work best, but you'll lose one piston ring
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06 alien head, no flies, PC+hub, 16/45 44 43, air shifter, dry shot
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eklipse636
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ZX-14
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posted January 08, 2010 01:46 PM
If you don't have anyone to build it I see a famous bike builder is posting here again. Maybe he can help.
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Best: 60ft 1.351 1/8 5.68 mph 123.98 1/4
8.89 mph 151.32
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KZScott
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posted January 08, 2010 02:03 PM
wasnt dub using a 2 mm head gasket with custom tall deck turbo pistons?
if you ordered normal pistons to be used with short rods, and that hg, you could use stock length rods. kinda like adding a block spacer
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01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
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Shane661
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posted January 08, 2010 02:05 PM
You can do it either way. Even if you use the shorter rods, the ratio is supposed to be well within the safe range.
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smokinZX14
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posted January 09, 2010 07:57 AM
I don't like the one ring thing , but one ring setup in wrongway 1530 seems to be working just fine .. Still i rather have 2 rings ... 2 mm shorter rods will not likely cause any problems .. I don't like that shorter rods load the piston into the bore walls harder than longer rods . This can shorten the life of the rings also .. If i was forced to pick i would stay with stock rods and go with the one ring piston .. There might be a better way to go , 2 mm bore and a 2 mill stroker together, you still end up with the same CCs but you may be able to keep the 2 ring piston ..I have not done the math but there may be room with a 2 mm stroker to keep 2 rings ..
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Smokin Performance Cycles..
Tampa Bay , FL .. Brocks Performance Dealer ..
Gen 2 ZX14R Best ET 8.43 , Best MPH 164.95
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Seven
Novice Class
Posts: 69
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posted January 09, 2010 05:05 PM
When i built my 4 mil i ended going with stock rod lengths and a modified stroker piston. Falicon rods and CP stroker pistons for my setup. You planning on using stock rods on your build and whos doing the crank work if you dont mind me asking?
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project in the works!!! +4 mil stroker falicon rods CP pistons, APE valve springs, head studs, high pressure oil valve, muzzy HD oil pump plate, Adams performance 2" pan and Tsukigi sidewinder, lowered 2"
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KZScott
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posted January 09, 2010 05:53 PM
Marine 
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01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
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smokinZX14
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posted January 09, 2010 08:04 PM
Marine
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Smokin Performance Cycles..
Tampa Bay , FL .. Brocks Performance Dealer ..
Gen 2 ZX14R Best ET 8.43 , Best MPH 164.95
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ZX14Mike
Zone Head
Posts: 891
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posted January 10, 2010 06:25 PM
Smokin i'm curious about what the reason is for all the horror stories about reliability of strokers..............do you think the reason is the cranks are welded rather than billet cranks, or is it the bearings, or rods, or assembly or some combination of the above?
I just dont get why so many people seem to both insist reliablity is so poor and have so many reliability problems?
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WRECKSHOP
Expert Class
Posts: 359
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posted January 10, 2010 07:02 PM
Using Carrillo Rods and C.P. Pistons on this build....
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smokinZX14
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posted January 10, 2010 07:14 PM
 Edited By: smokinZX14 on 11 Jan 2010 03:23
quote:
Smokin i'm curious about what the reason is for all the horror stories about reliability of strokers..............do you think the reason is the cranks are welded rather than billet cranks, or is it the bearings, or rods, or assembly or some combination of the above?
I just dont get why so many people seem to both insist reliablity is so poor and have so many reliability problems?
Mike i'm not sure why a stroker is getting such a bad rap ..I have used welded stroker cranks in 900 HP engines and never had a problem ..I don't use them anymore because we now have pleanty of aftermarkets cranks for my Mopar enigines ..A stroker crank done right is just as good as a stocker and in some cases better than a stocker ...Alot of people using a 4 mm crank in a zx14 are hard core drag racers and are mostlikey spraying a good sized shot of n20 also ..So do you blame the stroker or spray if the motor comes apart ? You can also make a case about who built the motor , If it was poorly put together it will not matter what crank and rods you put in the engine ..
I need to add this , anythime you add more power to an engine or exceed the factory limits of the stock engine you are going to shorten engine life .. Raising the compression ratio is more harmfull than stroking an engine ...Simply going from 12.1 to 13.5 can cause bearing wear and a need to refresh the engine sooner .. It's also hard on stock rods and rod bolts as well as head bolts ..Rod and head bolts are nothing but a very strong spring.. As the rod bolts or head bolts stretch under load and then return back to no load they can and will lose their TQ specs.. When you run an engine hard it is lifting the head off the block and in time the bolt will not return with its full clamping force ...Just like a spring over time will lose its power to do its job...
Rule that is use is not to exceed the factory HP by more than 25% ..So for a zx14 with stock rods , bolts , pistons Ect you can safely add around 50 HP .. Numbers above that you will need aftermarket pistons , bolts ,studs and rods .. With Turbos you can cheat those numbers a bit because the way a turbo loads a motor is different that a built race motor or a big shot of spray ..
Everybody asks this queston " How long will my stroker motor last Vs a stock motor " Like a stated it will shorten the engines lifespan .. How much i really can't answer .. Lets go back to my 25% rule and lets say it will decrease your engine life by 25% ... So you race your bike very week and the stock motor lasted 4 years on the drag strip .. Now with a built race engine you might make it 3 years before it lets go .. But if you are a racer you should be pulling that engine down yearly and refreashing it anyway .. With the correct Mantance the engine could last for many many years ..
____________
Smokin Performance Cycles..
Tampa Bay , FL .. Brocks Performance Dealer ..
Gen 2 ZX14R Best ET 8.43 , Best MPH 164.95
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smokinZX14
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posted January 10, 2010 07:17 PM
Edited By: smokinZX14 on 11 Jan 2010 03:17
..
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Smokin Performance Cycles..
Tampa Bay , FL .. Brocks Performance Dealer ..
Gen 2 ZX14R Best ET 8.43 , Best MPH 164.95
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KZScott
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posted January 10, 2010 07:52 PM
excellent post. hopefully that will clear up a few things for some
____________
01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
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SteddyTeddy
Pro
Posts: 1664
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posted January 11, 2010 06:28 AM
1 year on the 4mm stroked crank in my bike even with a bad build and regular trips to the track.
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kaw now
Expert Class
Posts: 446
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posted January 11, 2010 11:36 PM
Smokin quote "2 mm bore and a 2 mill stroker together, you still end up with the same CCs "
Didn't sound quite right so I checked the math. You need to account for area of a circle on bore which is pi(3.14159) x radius squared. So 61mm x 84mm plug in 61 X 42 X 42 X 3.14159 = 338047 x 4 = 1352. The pi figure is best used by a calc because it isn't so accurate like above. Plug 4 mm stroke only and its 1441cc's. Now 2mm stroke and 2mm bore is 1464cc's. 4mm bore only is 1484cc's. You get more with bore it seems. I like the idea of a two and two more cc's. 4 mm stroke and 2mm bore you get 1510 - now that's some cubes.
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Shane661
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posted January 12, 2010 04:02 AM
Edited By: Shane661 on 12 Jan 2010 12:04
2mm bore = 1417
3mm bore = 1451
4mm stroke = 1441
4 x 2 = 1510
5 x 2 = 1534
5 x 3 = 1569
Muzzy was listing a 1581 (5.5 x 3), but that is no longer listed on their page.
Tool for calculating displacement and rod/stroke ratio:
http://users.erols.com/srweiss/calcci.htm
There are some other good calculators on that homepage as well:
http://users.erols.com/srweiss/
Shane
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smokinZX14
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posted January 12, 2010 06:08 AM
quote:
Smokin quote "2 mm bore and a 2 mill stroker together, you still end up with the same CCs "
Didn't sound quite right so I checked the math. You need to account for area of a circle on bore which is pi(3.14159) x radius squared. So 61mm x 84mm plug in 61 X 42 X 42 X 3.14159 = 338047 x 4 = 1352. The pi figure is best used by a calc because it isn't so accurate like above. Plug 4 mm stroke only and its 1441cc's. Now 2mm stroke and 2mm bore is 1464cc's. 4mm bore only is 1484cc's. You get more with bore it seems. I like the idea of a two and two more cc's. 4 mm stroke and 2mm bore you get 1510 - now that's some cubes.
"Now 2mm stroke and 2mm bore is 1464cc's" Even better 
____________
Smokin Performance Cycles..
Tampa Bay , FL .. Brocks Performance Dealer ..
Gen 2 ZX14R Best ET 8.43 , Best MPH 164.95
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gsxrassassin
Expert Class
Posts: 225
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posted February 14, 2010 12:18 PM
I need some advice. I'm putting a plan together for next winter to get some pretty serious work done on my 14. The plan includes head porting, bigger cams and either block boring or stroking. I've heard the ZX-14 doesn't respond with a lot of horsepower from just boring the block (at least not from 1352 to 1417). Now, this is all hear-say information so what I need is someone who's had the work done to speak on this matter.
To make it clear, I'm more interested in HP than TQ so naturally I would lean toward boring. Who's had the 1417 work done? Did it yield pretty good results? Thanks.
GSXR
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Over the hump, back up and running again!!
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dubious
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Needs more time to ride!
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posted February 14, 2010 03:26 PM
Edited By: dubious on 15 Feb 2010 02:24
since my setup was brought up....
For my stock stroke turbo:
-2mm rods still have better than 1.8 to1 rod to stroke ratio, on stock stroke, and will allow better / stronger pistons with 2 rings, and more piston skirt, wrist pin box design
the slight change in rod to stroke ratio will not create substantial difference in side loading the skirts at stock RPM limits, especially with the stability of 2 rings!
Short rods are the way to go if you can afford them but thats my opinion...
[My turbo pistons by MTC are 10.5 :1 compression with 1mm extra material, on top -2mm rods
My .050 gasket is required to get my compression down to 9.2:1 (BOOST)]
mine still to be proven,
...but the pro's use this setup on their turbo motors, and they have been lasting a season easily with well over 400 RWHP
____________
natural selection.....
destiny will overcome intervention.
Some are not worthy of the effort.
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LAB3
Needs a job
Posts: 2977
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posted February 14, 2010 07:09 PM
For a street bike the 2X2 1464 cc appeals to me. No spray. CNC/Comp head work ,How
much $$ plus 2X2 parts and labor. HP gain??
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thutch26
Expert Class
thutch26
Posts: 483
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posted February 14, 2010 07:42 PM
quote:
I need some advice. I'm putting a plan together for next winter to get some pretty serious work done on my 14. The plan includes head porting, bigger cams and either block boring or stroking. I've heard the ZX-14 doesn't respond with a lot of horsepower from just boring the block (at least not from 1352 to 1417). Now, this is all hear-say information so what I need is someone who's had the work done to speak on this matter.
To make it clear, I'm more interested in HP than TQ so naturally I would lean toward boring. Who's had the 1417 work done? Did it yield pretty good results? Thanks.
GSXR
I've got a very well built 1417, and there is a really nice gain in both hpa nd tq, now when i spray it is a whole other beast, bike nets 1.33 60ft's and has been a best of 5.50 1/8th and 8.41 @ 163mph in the 1/4... I also ride it on the street everyday, it actually runs cooler then it did stock..
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Gettin faster everytime I go to the track!!!
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thutch26
Expert Class
thutch26
Posts: 483
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posted March 02, 2010 08:01 AM
Motor is out now being freshened up and got some stock length Carillo's going in it...
I was Curious how much spray will a 4x2 motor hold?
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Gettin faster everytime I go to the track!!!
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