wrongway
Pro
Posts: 1078
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posted September 03, 2009 04:33 PM
I got an E85 map made for a stock '07 bike with slip ons and a TRE locking in 5th gear . I started with a base map of 40% across all cells and let auto tune do its thing.
it does take more fuel in the midrange , but higher up looks like 40% is ok.
Roy
  
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Shane661
Needs a life
Posts: 11494
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posted September 03, 2009 04:35 PM
quote:
I got an E85 map made for a stock '07 bike with slip ons and a TRE locking in 5th gear . I started with a base map of 40% across all cells and let auto tune do its thing.
it does take more fuel in the midrange , but higher up looks like 40% is ok.
Roy
How do you like the autotune, Roy? What was your process...just ride it around, or? Does it come with a suggested methodology for tuning the bike??
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wrongway
Pro
Posts: 1078
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posted September 03, 2009 04:51 PM
I dont like it as much as my other setup ... there is no data logging so you have to depend on their software to see the throttle being whacked open or close , and the ECU adds or takes fuel when that happens. hard on/off the throttle does give some bad numbers. But for the price it seems to work ok. I did a short test run to get the cruising rpm mapped, then did a series of harder passes to make sure I wasn't too far off. Took a half dozen passes and then I was ready to for a longer rider. I will ride it to work for the next week and see if the map need anymore changes. I am really interested in seeing what the fuel mileage is going to be. The computer still show around 40 mph cruising on the highway, but I would rather run a tank of E85 and see how for it really goes.
But at any rate , i am buying less foreign oil:-)
Roy
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Shane661
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Posts: 11494
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posted September 03, 2009 04:55 PM
This is a very good thread. It doesn't look like E85 will equal MR9 hp-wise. But it should be better than pump, with lower combustion chamber temps. I have 4 channel EGT to install on my bike, and this would be a prime use for it.
I also have a nitrous setup for my bike, so EGT's are very interesting to me.
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Swiftkart
Expert Class
Posts: 349
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posted September 04, 2009 07:48 AM
My bike made more hp than MR9 with E85
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2006 ZX14, Brock CT-Meg, PC, ignition module, E85, 214 lbs suited, 8.96@152.32 1.46 60'
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Shane661
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Posts: 11494
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posted September 04, 2009 04:11 PM
 Edited By: Shane661 on 5 Sep 2009 01:25
quote:
My bike made more hp than MR9 with E85
Surprising. Are you sure it wasn't a mapping difference?
How much power did you make?
I would love to give up the $25/gal gas....
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Shane661
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Posts: 11494
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posted September 05, 2009 10:19 AM
Hey...how much are you guys paying per gallon??
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FlatoutBu
Pro
Posts: 1054
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posted September 05, 2009 10:24 AM
$2.49......
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06 Blue 14
9.008 at 153mph @ 195 suited
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INTIMIDA2OR
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RED rider!
Posts: 13081
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posted September 05, 2009 11:30 AM
$2.49 for pump gas or for E85?
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'06 Passion Red ZX-14
*Lee*
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wrongway
Pro
Posts: 1078
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posted September 05, 2009 01:23 PM
2.25 for E85
Roy
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FlatoutBu
Pro
Posts: 1054
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posted September 05, 2009 06:05 PM
quote:
$2.49 for pump gas or for E85?
e85 but it went down today.....
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06 Blue 14
9.008 at 153mph @ 195 suited
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FlatoutBu
Pro
Posts: 1054
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posted September 05, 2009 06:10 PM
quote:
They built a map starting from Brock's track map, it was as high as 25% in some areas and as low as 10% in others, all stock parts, did 4 baseline pulls on mr9 (6% oxygenate) and then I pulled the tank and used the stock pump and drained it, put in e85 and they richened the whole map 20% to start and tuned from there, one thing everyone is overlooking is the plugs, you need to run a hotter plug in order to keep the power curve up top, e85 (33% oxygenate) burns really cold and you need to have heat to make hp, I learned that from running alcohol in my kart racing days... I was hoping for it to be at least the same power to save money, it blew me away to see more and the stuff I tested was only a 73% blend, it wasn't a true 85%, the shop had a drum 99%, I'm not sure where they got it, but I'm sure it would make even more of a gain.
How much hotter did you go on the plugs? Did you do anything with the timing?
____________
06 Blue 14
9.008 at 153mph @ 195 suited
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Halvefast
Zone Head
Posts: 806
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posted September 08, 2009 09:56 PM
Roy what kind of timing changes did you need to make?
How much hotter of a plug are you using?
Is it necc. to drain the tank like with MR9?
Thanks!
____________
Texas Mile 200.256mph - Oct. 2007 (Update 202.577mph Oct 2008) NOS assisted
ECTA Ohio Mile 195.132mph
TexasMile 2012 199.9 mph all motor!
Streetriders Shootout 2008 series Pro/ET Champ!
Streetriders Shootout 2007 Series Pro/ET Runner-up!
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wrongway
Pro
Posts: 1078
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posted September 09, 2009 04:07 AM
quote:
Roy what kind of timing changes did you need to make?
How much hotter of a plug are you using?
Is it necc. to drain the tank like with MR9?
Thanks!
no timing changes on the stock bike
stil using stock plugs
I have been using E85 in the stock bike as a daily driver for a couple of hundred miles. There is no need to drain it.
Roy
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Shane661
Needs a life
Posts: 11494
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posted September 09, 2009 04:38 AM
Here is more info on running E85 in standard engines:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E85_in_standard_engines
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Shane661
Needs a life
Posts: 11494
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posted September 09, 2009 04:44 AM
Roy, any consideration to the exposed electrical wiring and connections on the stock pump? That is probably my biggest concern at this point, since the E85 is conductive.
I'm very tempted to switch over to this, at least this winter. It would be nice to get away from the MR9, and do some egt testing.
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wrongway
Pro
Posts: 1078
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posted September 09, 2009 06:18 AM
not yet... I have run it from a full tank to completely dry ...no explosions yet :-)
I am sure you will read about it when it does happen... maybe on the darwin awards.
Roy
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wrongway
Pro
Posts: 1078
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posted September 19, 2009 04:47 PM
I ran the naked race bike at Maxton with E85. It looks like it is 7 mph slower with E85. I am running the same configuration that I had at Loring. On gasoline, I was at 187 mph with average conditions. I was at 180 mph with E85 today. I will be the air was not as good today , but it looks like the E85 is not making the same power as the C14 gas that I used at Loring. I tried to gear the bike to use lower rpms, but even that didnt make enough difference.
I will try running gas tomorrow to get a better comparison between e85 and race gas.
Roy
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Halvefast
Zone Head
Posts: 806
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posted September 19, 2009 11:58 PM
Keep us posted, good info, Thanks Roy
____________
Texas Mile 200.256mph - Oct. 2007 (Update 202.577mph Oct 2008) NOS assisted
ECTA Ohio Mile 195.132mph
TexasMile 2012 199.9 mph all motor!
Streetriders Shootout 2008 series Pro/ET Champ!
Streetriders Shootout 2007 Series Pro/ET Runner-up!
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Shane661
Needs a life
Posts: 11494
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posted September 20, 2009 05:46 AM
Edited By: Shane661 on 20 Sep 2009 13:47
quote:
I ran the naked race bike at Maxton with E85. It looks like it is 7 mph slower with E85. I am running the same configuration that I had at Loring. On gasoline, I was at 187 mph with average conditions. I was at 180 mph with E85 today. I will be the air was not as good today , but it looks like the E85 is not making the same power as the C14 gas that I used at Loring. I tried to gear the bike to use lower rpms, but even that didnt make enough difference.
I will try running gas tomorrow to get a better comparison between e85 and race gas.
Roy
I'm not sure how you can compare the #'s of two different venues, under different weather/altitude conditions, and different track lengths.
Are you logging wheel rotation to get distance traveled? That would help somewhat. For a 7 mph difference over equal distance and with the same track conditions, you would likely have to lose 20 hp or so.
Shane
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wrongway
Pro
Posts: 1078
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posted September 20, 2009 12:48 PM
I switched back over to gas today and I last 5 more mph ....
So E85 is making morepower , even at higher rpms.
But now I have to figure out why the bike is down on power . The SB6 said the coil #2 was open. I pulled out the SB6 and the bike ran ok on the ECU so I thought the SB6 was bad. maybe the coil does need to be replaced .... I will pull the plugs tomorrow and do a compression check just to be sure there arent any other issues.
Roy
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gilberjj
Needs a job
Friend of Fast
Posts: 3196
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posted May 09, 2010 11:39 PM
Gravedig: Roy, I've been researching this for a couple months now, and you are about 10-20% higher then everyone else that is running an e85 map. I got a map, and while I don't have a data logger, I'm going to do some old fashion testing to see if e85 traps more at the 1/4 mile. Even though my ets were from 9.56-9.72, my mph only saw a variation of 2 mph over 14 passes. Hopefully I can become even more consistent to give this a good review. How are your bikes doing?
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wrongway
Pro
Posts: 1078
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posted May 10, 2010 02:42 AM
quote:
Gravedig: Roy, I've been researching this for a couple months now, and you are about 10-20% higher then everyone else that is running an e85 map. I got a map, and while I don't have a data logger, I'm going to do some old fashion testing to see if e85 traps more at the 1/4 mile. Even though my ets were from 9.56-9.72, my mph only saw a variation of 2 mph over 14 passes. Hopefully I can become even more consistent to give this a good review. How are your bikes doing?
the motor is a 1530 cc , that is a 15% larger than stock . That may account for some of the difference. I just went to a 660 cc injector and put the pump back to 42 psi. I am still working on the map but the bike is pretty close to where it was before the injector change. Even with my fat ass on it and 60' in the1.6 -1.65 range it ran 6.1 @ 124 and 9.36@ 146 in the 1/4. Previous best was 9.38@150
The stock bike has been on E85 for 3000 miles now. The only thing I see wrong is that the paint under the gas cap is coming being removed. But motor and fuel system still seem to be fine.
There was also some in info on injector sizing on one of the other threads. 2008 & up have smaller injectors ( 330 cc ) and may not have enough injector to run E85. The 440 cc injectors on the 06-07 bikes are good to around 200 hp.
Roy
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gilberjj
Needs a job
Friend of Fast
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posted May 10, 2010 09:26 AM
How do you check injector cycle duty?
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wrongway
Pro
Posts: 1078
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posted May 10, 2010 09:50 AM
the power commander software shows duty cycle when you are monitoring live.
Roy
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