FlatoutBu
Pro
Posts: 1054
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posted August 22, 2009 10:37 AM
E85 results.....
I have been talking with friends and family about this for some time. I finally had a friend try it, and here are the results.
01 gsxr 1000...1070 motor
stock lines and fuel rail
walbourgh pump and s2000 injectors
no timing change or increased fuel pressure
Bike made 1 hp more at peak but made 4-5hp all the way thru till peak....
Torque was up 4 ft-lbs all the way thru even at peak....
The bike runs millions times cooler and never seen above 200 degrees on the dyno. The map only had to be increased around 38% all the way thru. He never played with timing so there may be a little more in it.
175hp and 89 trq.... this was with a shinko and 8 inch stretch...tuned by Ryan Schnitz. It's not adding anything up top but to add 4 to 5 pounds of torque thru the rpm range would defentally help with your 60's on out....
____________
06 Blue 14
9.008 at 153mph @ 195 suited
  
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dubious
Needs a life
Needs more time to ride!
Posts: 8442
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posted August 22, 2009 04:53 PM
I am willing to bet $$$ that a better flowing exhaust would help with the added volume going into the motor, what goes in must come out.
____________
natural selection.....
destiny will overcome intervention.
Some are not worthy of the effort.
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FlatoutBu
Pro
Posts: 1054
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posted August 22, 2009 06:16 PM
The bike already has a sidewinder on it.....you still want to take that bet? lol
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06 Blue 14
9.008 at 153mph @ 195 suited
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johnbull
Expert Class
Posts: 314
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posted August 24, 2009 12:23 AM
.8 -.85
My wideband sensor is setup to convert for gasoline , so it is taking the lambda value and multiplying by 14.7. with that scale I am tuning it to 11.8 -12.5.
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So what target AFR would I need to give the PCV autotune if I was to map for E85??? 8 - 8.5 or 11.8 - 12.5????
Cheers,
Josh
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John Bul Racing. Malta.
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wrongway
Pro
Posts: 1078
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posted August 24, 2009 04:31 AM
quote:
.8 -.85
My wideband sensor is setup to convert for gasoline , so it is taking the lambda value and multiplying by 14.7. with that scale I am tuning it to 11.8 -12.5.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
So what target AFR would I need to give the PCV autotune if I was to map for E85??? 8 - 8.5 or 11.8 - 12.5????
Cheers,
Josh
11.8 - 12.5 if it is set up for gas
Roy
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Shane661
Needs a life
Posts: 11494
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posted August 24, 2009 04:33 AM
quote:
E85 results.....
I have been talking with friends and family about this for some time. I finally had a friend try it, and here are the results.
01 gsxr 1000...1070 motor
stock lines and fuel rail
walbourgh pump and s2000 injectors
no timing change or increased fuel pressure
Bike made 1 hp more at peak but made 4-5hp all the way thru till peak....
Torque was up 4 ft-lbs all the way thru even at peak....
The bike runs millions times cooler and never seen above 200 degrees on the dyno. The map only had to be increased around 38% all the way thru. He never played with timing so there may be a little more in it.
175hp and 89 trq.... this was with a shinko and 8 inch stretch...tuned by Ryan Schnitz. It's not adding anything up top but to add 4 to 5 pounds of torque thru the rpm range would defentally help with your 60's on out....
Excellent information!
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wrongway
Pro
Posts: 1078
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posted August 24, 2009 04:39 AM
quote:
E85 results.....
I have been talking with friends and family about this for some time. I finally had a friend try it, and here are the results.
01 gsxr 1000...1070 motor
stock lines and fuel rail
walbourgh pump and s2000 injectors
no timing change or increased fuel pressure
Bike made 1 hp more at peak but made 4-5hp all the way thru till peak....
Torque was up 4 ft-lbs all the way thru even at peak....
The bike runs millions times cooler and never seen above 200 degrees on the dyno. The map only had to be increased around 38% all the way thru. He never played with timing so there may be a little more in it.
175hp and 89 trq.... this was with a shinko and 8 inch stretch...tuned by Ryan Schnitz. It's not adding anything up top but to add 4 to 5 pounds of torque thru the rpm range would defentally help with your 60's on out....
my track testing inidicated the same ...
I picked up 3 mph in the 1/8 and some ET , but it did not add much mph to 1/4 mph.
I am not sure how to make this work for me in the mile.
Roy
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FlatoutBu
Pro
Posts: 1054
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posted August 24, 2009 04:50 AM
I know they tuned for 12.5-12.8
Wrongway...maybe give the bike less gear to keep the rpm's lower, use the extra torque. I'm not a mile guy, not sure....
____________
06 Blue 14
9.008 at 153mph @ 195 suited
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wrongway
Pro
Posts: 1078
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posted August 24, 2009 05:14 AM
quote:
I know they tuned for 12.5-12.8
Wrongway...maybe give the bike less gear to keep the rpm's lower, use the extra torque. I'm not a mile guy, not sure....
i did not see any gains going leaner than 12.3 ..
how much more do s2000 injectors flow over the stock zx14 injectors ?
Roy
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FlatoutBu
Pro
Posts: 1054
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posted August 24, 2009 09:31 AM
Not sure, but he had to have them for his 1000. If the bike can handle 300hp on stock injectors 4-5 extra hp with e85 shouldn't be any problem. I think some people think you need more pressure to compensate for more volume...which is not always the case...but that's another bag of worms.
____________
06 Blue 14
9.008 at 153mph @ 195 suited
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wrongway
Pro
Posts: 1078
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posted August 24, 2009 01:55 PM
quote:
Not sure, but he had to have them for his 1000. If the bike can handle 300hp on stock injectors 4-5 extra hp with e85 shouldn't be any problem. I think some people think you need more pressure to compensate for more volume...which is not always the case...but that's another bag of worms.
my thinking was that the injectors could handle 300 hp and the motor was rated at 200 hp , so it seems like i could have upto 50% increase with stock the injectors.
with E85 and the 1530 cc motor ,I am curently adding 50% more fuel with the PC3 on the top end... so isnt that putting the injectors close to their limit ? I am still on the rich side so I know that i havent gone too far.
Roy
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johnbull
Expert Class
Posts: 314
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posted August 24, 2009 11:59 PM
Yes Roy, you're probably just about about reaching the maximum duty cycle of the standard injectors.
This is the first I am reading of E85 fuel, but from what I have read, just to run E85 instead of pump gas you straight away have to add about 35% more fuel, avaerage all round. If this is the case then you obviously cannot reason that "THE STANDAR INJECTORS ARE MEANT TO TAKE UP TO 300 BHP". 300 BHP on pump Gas is very different than 300 BHP on E85 regarding the duty cycle of the injectors.
The BHP has nothing to to with it, it is the duty cycle of the injector that determines whether you need a bigger injector or not (the power commander gives you this figure in the software).
So with E85 fuel the injectors are probably working as much, or more than if you were running a turbo set up.
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John Bul Racing. Malta.
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johnbull
Expert Class
Posts: 314
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posted August 25, 2009 12:02 AM
Wrongway,
What are your thoughts on the 1530cc motor?? I run my ZX14 motor in a race car and have always wondered whether the 1530cc motor could take the continuous lapping of curcuit racing. Have you raced yours on a circuit?
I would appreciate your thoughts.
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John Bul Racing. Malta.
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FlatoutBu
Pro
Posts: 1054
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posted August 25, 2009 05:38 AM
Wrongway...I forgot you had the 1530 motor, but as long as you can stay rich then you shouldn't have any problems. You may well be at the limits of your injectors but until I seen a lean condition I wouldn't worry about it.
Johnbull....After seeing the real world dyno results you have to add roughly 38 percent more fuel with e85. I know the standard injectors will make 300hp on pump gas.....before you run them to the top of their duty cycle. Having wrongway run 38% or more fuel with e85 and his big bore shouldn't be a problem with stock injectors. Some people get it in their balloon knot that you need massive amounts of fuel with e85, that's just not so... It's no differance than say running a 20-30 shot of nitrous on top of his big bore kit.
____________
06 Blue 14
9.008 at 153mph @ 195 suited
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wrongway
Pro
Posts: 1078
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posted August 25, 2009 05:45 AM
quote:
Wrongway,
What are your thoughts on the 1530cc motor?? I run my ZX14 motor in a race car and have always wondered whether the 1530cc motor could take the continuous lapping of curcuit racing. Have you raced yours on a circuit?
I would appreciate your thoughts.
I am not sure how well the Muzzy kit would hold up due mainly to to fact that they have a disclaimer about street use. I have done a half dozen runs on the 1.5 mile land speed course and 2 dozen 1/4 mile passes with no issue. I did ride it on the street for 400 miles to break it in, but not at full power. The piston is a 2 ring setup and a heavier design than the stock one. It also uses the stock rod length. Pistons speeds are higher with the +5mm stroke so the redline is lower.
If it did hold up , it would be one bad machine. The extra torque would really get you off of the corners.
Roy
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wrongway
Pro
Posts: 1078
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posted August 25, 2009 05:52 AM
quote:
Wrongway...I forgot you had the 1530 motor, but as long as you can stay rich then you shouldn't have any problems. You may well be at the limits of your injectors but until I seen a lean condition I wouldn't worry about it.
but how am I gonna put nitrous on it :-(
I dont even think the stock pump is up to it.
Roy
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FlatoutBu
Pro
Posts: 1054
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posted August 25, 2009 10:22 AM
Wet kit...or you can gat a A1000 external fuel pump, just a ideal.
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06 Blue 14
9.008 at 153mph @ 195 suited
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Swiftkart
Expert Class
Posts: 349
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posted September 02, 2009 08:51 AM
My Dyno test results showed about the same gain, except my bike made 6hp/5 ft lbs more all the way to 11,000 over mr9, stock 06 pump, injectors and pressure, mine only needed richened up about 20% to 25% over the baseline Brock race map which is already 10% to 15% richer than the pump gas map.
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2006 ZX14, Brock CT-Meg, PC, ignition module, E85, 214 lbs suited, 8.96@152.32 1.46 60'
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Bently
Needs a life
2012 14r In Blue and no Mods!
Posts: 5428
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posted September 02, 2009 11:17 AM
Swiftkart so If I read your post right you richend Brocks map 20 to 25% and the rest of the bike was stock as far as Fuel pump, lines, injectors etc? And if you picked up 6 hp over MR9 then what would that be over pump gas like 15 to 18 hp. If so that's huge.
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Swiftkart
Expert Class
Posts: 349
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posted September 02, 2009 01:38 PM
They built a map starting from Brock's track map, it was as high as 25% in some areas and as low as 10% in others, all stock parts, did 4 baseline pulls on mr9 (6% oxygenate) and then I pulled the tank and used the stock pump and drained it, put in e85 and they richened the whole map 20% to start and tuned from there, one thing everyone is overlooking is the plugs, you need to run a hotter plug in order to keep the power curve up top, e85 (33% oxygenate) burns really cold and you need to have heat to make hp, I learned that from running alcohol in my kart racing days... I was hoping for it to be at least the same power to save money, it blew me away to see more and the stuff I tested was only a 73% blend, it wasn't a true 85%, the shop had a drum 99%, I'm not sure where they got it, but I'm sure it would make even more of a gain.
____________
2006 ZX14, Brock CT-Meg, PC, ignition module, E85, 214 lbs suited, 8.96@152.32 1.46 60'
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Swiftkart
Expert Class
Posts: 349
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posted September 02, 2009 01:42 PM
Now I plan on getting to the track soon to test, I'm hoping for an improvement in e.t and mph
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2006 ZX14, Brock CT-Meg, PC, ignition module, E85, 214 lbs suited, 8.96@152.32 1.46 60'
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Swiftkart
Expert Class
Posts: 349
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posted September 02, 2009 01:59 PM
Another thing everyone is overlooking is the 30% to 40% richer is based off of pump gas, Brocks mr9 map is already 10% to 20% richer in some areas over pump fuel so it doesn't take that much more to go e85, when they ran my bike on the dyno the way I had it 2 days before my retuning day at 30% richer than Brocks map, the afr was anywhere from 10.5 to 11.8 and it was down 4 or 5 hp to mr9.
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2006 ZX14, Brock CT-Meg, PC, ignition module, E85, 214 lbs suited, 8.96@152.32 1.46 60'
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wrongway
Pro
Posts: 1078
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posted September 02, 2009 02:56 PM
I have the PC5 and the autotune on the stock '07, so it is reay to swith over to E85. It will be interesting to see how it does fuel mileage wise . I have been running the autotune with gas to get some idea of how it works. Everythig look good so far , so maybe i will do the switch this week.
Roy
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Bently
Needs a life
2012 14r In Blue and no Mods!
Posts: 5428
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posted September 02, 2009 06:59 PM
Swiftkart could you give me your email I have some more ?'s
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Swiftkart
Expert Class
Posts: 349
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posted September 03, 2009 07:16 AM
quote:
Swiftkart could you give me your email I have some more ?'s
swiftkart@msn.com
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2006 ZX14, Brock CT-Meg, PC, ignition module, E85, 214 lbs suited, 8.96@152.32 1.46 60'
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