Swiftkart
Expert Class
Posts: 349
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posted August 10, 2009 07:46 AM
 Edited By: Swiftkart on 10 Aug 2009 15:53
I'm running E85 in my 06 with all stock hardware, didn't increase the fuel pressure either, just add 30% to Brock's base maps (strip no sec. and maxton) and the bike picked up a lot, haven't been to the strip yet, but I did some before and after rollons with a friends Brocked out 08 Busa, before we were pretty close, now I just run off and leave him, I thought he was playin with me, but he wasn't and said I don't know what you did to your bike (I didn't tell about the e85), but I don't have anything for it so the stuff makes real hp and the bike runs cooler, I plan on taking it to the dyno soon to see how it compare to the numbers I got with mr9 (185HP SAE), I will post results whever I get time to do it.
As far as adding 55% like someone posted, everything I have read says 30% to 33% is all it takes and it seems to be working out well on a stock bike with a pipe, pulls hard to redline, it could be the bigger 1530 cc engine does requre more fuel and fuel pressure.
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2006 ZX14, Brock CT-Meg, PC, ignition module, E85, 214 lbs suited, 8.96@152.32 1.46 60'
  
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Swiftkart
Expert Class
Posts: 349
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posted August 10, 2009 07:59 AM
quote:
damn I didnt know that E85 gave you more power. I thought it was the other way around!
E85 has 33% oxygen, where MR9 has about 6% so it will make more power if tuned correctly, it also burns a lot cooler.
____________
2006 ZX14, Brock CT-Meg, PC, ignition module, E85, 214 lbs suited, 8.96@152.32 1.46 60'
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Shane661
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Posts: 11494
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posted August 10, 2009 08:24 AM
I believe that the power making potential of the fuel is more complicated than the oxygen content.
I would be tempted to tune for it, and try it at the track and dyno. Just a few tankful's.
What about the fuel pump and the exposed electrical parts?
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dubious
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posted August 10, 2009 09:00 AM
Damn, I am finnished my fuel system, and it has aluminum fittings.
I am also looking to make the fuel system more readily serviceable and putting a drain on the tank.... maybe I should try E85 out.
I would be able to drain and flush it easily, which is important with the race fuels already too.
Thing is there is NO E85 in Canada yet. 
____________
natural selection.....
destiny will overcome intervention.
Some are not worthy of the effort.
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FlatoutBu
Pro
Posts: 1054
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posted August 10, 2009 09:00 AM
Shane, read around on that e85 forum and you'll get some answers. I know there is alot of myths about e85. I'm not saying there isn't a spec of truth to some but I think alot of it has been blowed out of proportion. I know there are problems with some water content in the mixture depending on the season. I heard that was one reason why everybody cried you had to have stainless lines....and so on and so forth..
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06 Blue 14
9.008 at 153mph @ 195 suited
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FlatoutBu
Pro
Posts: 1054
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posted August 10, 2009 09:11 AM
http://www.e85performance.net/forums/showthread.php?t=17&page=5
Take a look guys, most guys are switching to alum lines prior to e85 and some are keeping stock rubber lines....no problems.
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06 Blue 14
9.008 at 153mph @ 195 suited
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FlatoutBu
Pro
Posts: 1054
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posted August 10, 2009 09:12 AM
damn, how do you make it a clickable link again? lol
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06 Blue 14
9.008 at 153mph @ 195 suited
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dubious
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posted August 10, 2009 09:16 AM
Edited By: dubious on 10 Aug 2009 17:18
(url) put link here (/url)
except use the square brackets
[ ]
pics the same except (img) and (/ img)
[ ]
____________
natural selection.....
destiny will overcome intervention.
Some are not worthy of the effort.
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FlatoutBu
Pro
Posts: 1054
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posted August 10, 2009 09:25 AM
http://www.e85performance.net/forums/showthread.php?t=17&page=5
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06 Blue 14
9.008 at 153mph @ 195 suited
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FlatoutBu
Pro
Posts: 1054
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posted August 10, 2009 09:25 AM
cool thanks...
____________
06 Blue 14
9.008 at 153mph @ 195 suited
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Shane661
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posted August 10, 2009 04:26 PM
More questions unanswered:
1) Change in EGT's
2) Approximate power gains in %
If it is possible to get cooler egt's, equal power to MR9, and cheaper...hey, I'm all for it..
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smokinZX14
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posted August 10, 2009 07:10 PM
We had a guy show up with a 2005 zx10 that was running e85 ...I did ask a few questions but i should have asked more .. He has been running e85 for 3 years with the stock parts ... He said he modded his pump to put out 65 psi ..I think he said he was using honda s2000 injectors .. He claimed he runs a tenth and a half faster on the e85 Vs pump gas .. I asked about changing the fuel line , tank and other stock fuel systems parts ... He said no need , the stock parts work just fine .. He told me the storys of e85 eating the factory parts are bull ...He said pour it in, fatten it up and ride the crap out of it ..
____________
Smokin Performance Cycles..
Tampa Bay , FL .. Brocks Performance Dealer ..
Gen 2 ZX14R Best ET 8.43 , Best MPH 164.95
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wrongway
Pro
Posts: 1078
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posted August 10, 2009 07:36 PM
quote:
How about using the autotune with the PC5?
that should be fine. Most wideband sensors are reading lambda and converting to an afr for the fuel ( gas)
tune to the rich side ( .8) ,, very little negative to that. A lean mix will burn faster than gas and have bad detonation. ethanol and methanol dont have to be tuned lean to make power.
I did make idle and cruise speeds leaner to prevent oil contamination. I have seen plenty of race cars with milky looking oil because thay are so fat. Water mixed with oil will create acids.
Roy
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wrongway
Pro
Posts: 1078
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posted August 10, 2009 07:41 PM
quote:
I'm running E85 in my 06 with all stock hardware, didn't increase the fuel pressure either, just add 30% to Brock's base maps (strip no sec. and maxton) and the bike picked up a lot, haven't been to the strip yet, but I did some before and after rollons with a friends Brocked out 08 Busa, before we were pretty close, now I just run off and leave him, I thought he was playin with me, but he wasn't and said I don't know what you did to your bike (I didn't tell about the e85), but I don't have anything for it so the stuff makes real hp and the bike runs cooler, I plan on taking it to the dyno soon to see how it compare to the numbers I got with mr9 (185HP SAE), I will post results whever I get time to do it.
As far as adding 55% like someone posted, everything I have read says 30% to 33% is all it takes and it seems to be working out well on a stock bike with a pipe, pulls hard to redline, it could be the bigger 1530 cc engine does requre more fuel and fuel pressure.
are you logging the afr ? Is brocks base map set for mr9 or some oxy fuel already ?
For running the mile I would always go rich ... the 1/4 is so quick you can get away with alot more stuff.
Roy
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wrongway
Pro
Posts: 1078
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posted August 10, 2009 07:43 PM
quote:
We had a guy show up with a 2005 zx10 that was running e85 ...I did ask a few questions but i should have asked more .. He has been running e85 for 3 years with the stock parts ... He said he modded his pump to put out 65 psi ..I think he said he was using honda s2000 injectors .. He claimed he runs a tenth and a half faster on the e85 Vs pump gas .. I asked about changing the fuel line , tank and other stock fuel systems parts ... He said no need , the stock parts work just fine .. He told me the storys of e85 eating the factory parts are bull ...He said pour it in, fatten it up and ride the crap out of it ..
I should be back down in november. Any chance to get some dyno time if I bring the race bike down ?
Roy
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smokinZX14
Needs a life
Posts: 10197
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posted August 10, 2009 07:53 PM
quote:
quote:
We had a guy show up with a 2005 zx10 that was running e85 ...I did ask a few questions but i should have asked more .. He has been running e85 for 3 years with the stock parts ... He said he modded his pump to put out 65 psi ..I think he said he was using honda s2000 injectors .. He claimed he runs a tenth and a half faster on the e85 Vs pump gas .. I asked about changing the fuel line , tank and other stock fuel systems parts ... He said no need , the stock parts work just fine .. He told me the storys of e85 eating the factory parts are bull ...He said pour it in, fatten it up and ride the crap out of it ..
I should be back down in november. Any chance to get some dyno time if I bring the race bike down ?
Roy
Not a problem ..Hopefully Teddy and I will have the dyno up and running in a few days ..
____________
Smokin Performance Cycles..
Tampa Bay , FL .. Brocks Performance Dealer ..
Gen 2 ZX14R Best ET 8.43 , Best MPH 164.95
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dubious
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posted August 10, 2009 10:10 PM
Edited By: dubious on 11 Aug 2009 06:28
I was reading a book " Engine Managment and Advanced Tuning" by Greg Banish,
It stated different properties of different fuels
Premium Gasoline:
Heat value - 43.5 KJ/ Kg
Octane- 93 (R+M) /2
Desity (specific gravity) .755 Kg/ l
Stoiciometric ratio: 14.7 :1 (AFR)
E85:
Heat value 29.19 KJ/ Kg
Octane 101.6 (R+M) /2
Desity (specific gravity) .783 Kg/ l
Stoiciometric ratio: 9.87 :1 (AFR)
____________
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destiny will overcome intervention.
Some are not worthy of the effort.
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BLK ICE
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posted August 10, 2009 10:19 PM
.
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dubious
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posted August 10, 2009 10:31 PM
It requires 40% less O2, per KG, but also produces only 75% of the heat value per KG .
The net effect with the same airflow characteristsics should be around 15% gain in HP.
in theory anyway...
Just stumbled across it .....
____________
natural selection.....
destiny will overcome intervention.
Some are not worthy of the effort.
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Bently
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posted August 11, 2009 07:13 PM
So how safe would it be to put e85 in and richin the map and go to the track? one of us needs to do it and see if there is any gain. I have e85 2 blocks from my house if i thought I would not blow it up i would be game.
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wrongway
Pro
Posts: 1078
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posted August 11, 2009 07:32 PM
Edited By: wrongway on 12 Aug 2009 03:34
i have been running it in the 1530 motor. I have richened it up 55% from the C12 map .. and it is on the rich side, afr looks ok . I have made full power passes to get the map set up. I dont see any issues ,but I havent been to the track to see if mph is up.
Do you have an O2 sensor and a data logger ?
I might get a chance to run it at red river friday and fine tune it. But I will have the land speed gearing (18/38)
Roy
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dubious
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posted August 11, 2009 11:28 PM
Whats your AFR ? around 8.5 to 9 ?
____________
natural selection.....
destiny will overcome intervention.
Some are not worthy of the effort.
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wrongway
Pro
Posts: 1078
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posted August 12, 2009 04:03 AM
.8 -.85
My wideband sensor is setup to convert for gasoline , so it is taking the lambda value and multiplying by 14.7. with that scale I am tuning it to 11.8 -12.5.
Roy
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FlatoutBu
Pro
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posted August 12, 2009 04:14 AM
If i had a data logger I would try it tonight at the track....
____________
06 Blue 14
9.008 at 153mph @ 195 suited
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Shane661
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posted August 12, 2009 07:16 AM
Edited By: Shane661 on 12 Aug 2009 15:17
The nearest locations to me for E85 are 35-40 miles....
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