wrongway
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posted August 06, 2009 04:51 PM
E85 ... anyone running it ?
I got the bike fired up on E85 today. It takes more fuel pressure and alot more fuel. Anyone have any tips/tricks for run the 14 on the stuff ? I think i will put the air filter back in and the muffler back on just to richen it up some. It doesnt seem that you can put too much of the stuff into the motor :-)
Roy
  
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Shane661
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posted August 06, 2009 05:02 PM
I guess you are planning to spray it? There was a decent E85 thread in the 12R area awhile back...
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gilberjj
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posted August 06, 2009 10:08 PM
e85 is wonderful stuff..... I have a station right near my house but I really have no reason to run it. If my bike was turboed, it would be on e85.
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wrongway
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posted August 07, 2009 05:35 AM
If I can tune the bike to run it , it should make more power. I think cars see a 20% increase in power on 100% methanol. That is why some of these race fuels that are oxygenated with methanol or ethanol see 6-8% gains in power. But E-85 is 2.25 a gallon and has more :-)
Any power gains without going into the motor are always good:-)
I have tuned the bike up to 40% throttle so far, staying on the rich side.... Anyone know what lamda I should be tuning a NA motor to ?
Roy
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dubious
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posted August 07, 2009 07:59 AM
Not sure but be careful you don't run out of fuel system.
From what I have read the BSFC goes up about 40%, so I am thinking you will need bigger fuel pump and pressure, or bigger injectors.
Unlike a turbo you can't increase your fuel pressure vased on boost, so I am thiking you will run out of fuel around 240HP on gasoline, that would be about 180 HP on E85?
Also your fuel consumption is goind to go through the roof... +~40% ? - from what I have read anyway.
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Some are not worthy of the effort.
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wrongway
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posted August 07, 2009 10:03 AM
this is for the race bike and I have a 3 gallon tank. i should be able to run a mile. Fuel presusre is up to 70 lbs now, and I am still having to add 65-100% to the map. It seems to be worse on lower rpm but I havent finished up the map yet . I might know more after this weekend.
Roy
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FlatoutBu
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posted August 07, 2009 10:48 AM
I'm interested in this myself. We got E85 everywhere around here....but what do you expect for one of the #1 corn producers in the US.
____________
06 Blue 14
9.008 at 153mph @ 195 suited
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dubious
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posted August 07, 2009 11:22 AM
Cool!
____________
natural selection.....
destiny will overcome intervention.
Some are not worthy of the effort.
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Sticks_n_Stones
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posted August 07, 2009 05:56 PM
damn I didnt know that E85 gave you more power. I thought it was the other way around!
____________
'06 zx14
Muzzy M10/M14
PCIII w/ Muzzy map
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bits n pieces...
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Bently
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posted August 07, 2009 06:55 PM
No if you can get enough fuel e85 maked more power. lot of mustangs and cameros being tuned for it.
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Sticks_n_Stones
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posted August 07, 2009 07:11 PM
 Edited By: Sticks_n_Stones on 8 Aug 2009 03:12
quote:
No if you can get enough fuel e85 maked more power. lot of mustangs and cameros being tuned for it.
Damn now I know why the vehicles badged "E85" are around. I thought it was just some timing issue and maybe a small injector change. Appears it requires more than just a programing- more like a doubling of the fueling and injecting capacity. Nice.
Would be nice to have 440rwhp out of my GTO with just a injector/fuel pump/fuel line upgrade. I can already change between maps whenever I want, just need to get a E85 map.
WoW man the possibilities that opens up. A 200+rwhp ZX14 for the price of injectors and a fuel pump?? Who the hell cares if I go from 30mpg to 20mph!
____________
'06 zx14
Muzzy M10/M14
PCIII w/ Muzzy map
Flies out K&N in!
bits n pieces...
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Bently
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posted August 07, 2009 07:17 PM
i know there are guys trying e85 in bikes right now just not a fine tuned combo out there. there are turbo stangs and cameros on it running fastest street car races, it makes power about like methonal.
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wrongway
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posted August 07, 2009 07:51 PM
using stock injectors and stock pump bumped up to 70 psi... I have the map done for 0 thru 60% throttle.... running great. should know if the stock injectors will do 100% throttle tomorrow. It is still taking 60% more fuel ...
Roy
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Sticks_n_Stones
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posted August 08, 2009 05:29 AM
Wrongway, you might as well sell that map and whatever you find is needed to run E85 as a kit. Could bring you some nice spending money!
____________
'06 zx14
Muzzy M10/M14
PCIII w/ Muzzy map
Flies out K&N in!
bits n pieces...
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wrongway
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posted August 08, 2009 08:05 AM
I think that will depend on the dragstrip on land speed runs.... who is gonna pay to go slower :-0
got the map done for 80% .... but there are so many cops running around here it is hard to get any passes today.
Roy
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Shane661
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posted August 08, 2009 08:10 AM
Edited By: Shane661 on 8 Aug 2009 16:11
I'm interested in your results. I saw good gains with MR9; I wonder if E85 will be comparable? And I'd be even more interested in EGT's.
I also seem to recall the E85 being hard on some components of the fuel system?
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dubious
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posted August 08, 2009 08:26 AM
yup
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E85
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natural selection.....
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Some are not worthy of the effort.
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Shane661
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posted August 08, 2009 08:30 AM
Edited By: Shane661 on 8 Aug 2009 16:30
From the article:
"Another is that fuel pumps must be capable of operating with electrically conductive ethanol instead of non-conducting dielectric gasoline fuel. Fuel injection control systems have a wider range of pulse widths to inject approximately 40% more fuel. Stainless steel fuel lines, sometimes lined with plastic, and stainless steel fuel tanks in place of terne fuel tanks are used. In some cases, FFVs use acid-neutralizing motor oil. For vehicles with fuel-tank mounted fuel pumps, additional differences to prevent arcing, as well as flame arrestors positioned in the tank's fill pipe, are also sometimes used."
Some things to consider, for sure...
Shane
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wrongway
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posted August 08, 2009 08:56 AM
i think all current vehicles use parts that are safe for ethanol. so far 2 tanks of fuel and and everthing seems to still be working. 100% throttle runs look ok , and I have the bike tuned on the rich side.
I will be headed to the dragstrip for real testing /tuning . I have a tank and fuel pump for e-85 and another setup for race gas. It should be easy to swap then at the track and change maps to do a back - back run . That is were the real answers are gonna be :-)
Roy
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Shane661
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posted August 08, 2009 09:05 AM
quote:
so far 2 tanks of fuel and and everthing seems to still be working.
Roy, you crack me up...
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dubious
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posted August 08, 2009 09:22 AM
quote:
quote:
so far 2 tanks of fuel and and everthing seems to still be working.
Roy, you crack me up...
+1
____________
natural selection.....
destiny will overcome intervention.
Some are not worthy of the effort.
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wrongway
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posted August 09, 2009 04:42 AM
After doing some riding and some thinking ... I think there is an easy way to convert a stock 14 to E85. If you have not pulled the secondary flies , it shoudl be as easy as using a PC5 and putting 55% ( or what ever number a dyno /tuner recommends) across the entire map. The PC5 also stores 2 maps that can change with an external switch . This would also allow to go back to a zero map for gasoline. If you have the auto tune it would be easy to create a custom map. I have not added any fuel at the 500 - 1000 rpm range and the bike starts... I am not sure if it will need any there for cold starts.
My motor is a 1530 with the flies out and 46mm throttle bodies. There are some really big numbers on the midrange where the flies out need to be compensated for. While I have been able to map it for E85 , it does take some equipment to log O2 and remap.. But the good news on this testing is that a stock bike should not have any problems supplying fuel to a stock motor.
I do have a fairly stock bike that I ride to work so that may be a good test vehicle. There is also a station near my job with E85. My thinking is that the fuel map will be changed by constant amount , equal to what ever the conversion factor is for gasoline ->e85 is. This should work with a TRE or a resistor to lock the gear position sensor for folks that want some power at lower rpms. Since all that does is let the ECU use a stock map for a different gear, it should work the same as a bike without a TRE.
Ethanol is not as sensative to running rich so youwont have to worry about leaning it up to make max power. But running E85 lean WILL cause severe detonation. But you should be able to hear that :-)
I am going to order a PC5 and slap it on the stock bike ....
Roy
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Shane661
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posted August 09, 2009 04:48 AM
How about using the autotune with the PC5?
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Sticks_n_Stones
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posted August 09, 2009 05:19 AM
____________
'06 zx14
Muzzy M10/M14
PCIII w/ Muzzy map
Flies out K&N in!
bits n pieces...
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FlatoutBu
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Posts: 1054
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posted August 09, 2009 04:18 PM
I have read alot about e85 and from what i read ,you do not have to change pumps,lines ect ect. Here is a link to a site, maybe it will shed some light on the e85 question.
http://www.e85performance.net/forums/
Some guys just dump it right in and re-jet. They have been doing this for a couple years with no ill effects.
____________
06 Blue 14
9.008 at 153mph @ 195 suited
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