Ninja ZX-14
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Posts: 111
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posted July 12, 2009 08:52 AM
This is Crazy - Gen 2 Busa
I guess you can say I have been a Kaw man for quite a few years. I've owned 2 ZX-11s and now the ZX 14. I loved all three bikes, especially the 14. Great looking bike, good power, very comfortable ride. Needless to say, sometimes fast just isn't fast enough. I have a 2mm piston kit, cams and head work, stock crank. Bike makes 212-215 at the rear wheel. Nuthin to sneeze at but there was something that I recently found out a couple weeks ago about the 2nd Gen Busa. A 3mm piston kit wit cams and head work, stock crank yields 246 HP at the rear wheel for much less than it cost to do the same thing to a 14. I was totally floored by this to the point that I called a couple other engine builders and they all gave me similar numbers. 246 HP is low boost Turbo numbers. I'm about to convert because Kaw doesn't seem to be as driven to make HP like Suzuki + they are doing everything to make getn more power harder, (1 piece top case, no room in the cylinder to go larger like Suzuki, etc.) What you guys think? I'm disappointed in Kaw.
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Ninja 14
  
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06redzx14
Pro
Posts: 1022
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posted July 12, 2009 08:55 AM
I've been around a pretty good shop and builder and none of the gen 2s I've seen put out that much power. at least here in Louisiana
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06 alien head, no flies, PC+hub, 16/45 44 43, air shifter, dry shot
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Shane661
Needs a life
Posts: 11494
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posted July 12, 2009 09:10 AM
I'm just going to say...don't believe everything you read or hear. The Busa motor is great, but if you are expecting 246 REAL hp out of a streetable 1441, you are going to be disappointed.
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Ninja ZX-14
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Posts: 111
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posted July 12, 2009 09:13 AM
3 mm pisston kit with head bore and cams, stock stroke will give you this on the new Busa's. I've researched it with several builders. If done right, thats what you will get and I'm a Kaw lover but 246 HP without Nitrous and Turbo sounds a lot better than the 215 HP I currently make. Kaw jus makes everything so small inside that you can't go big like you can on a Suzuki. The same thing appies with the 1000's vs the ZX-10. You get far more HP per dollar on the Zuk than u do on the Kaws. Everybody knows that. One of the biggest reasons why I never got a Busa is because everybody's got one. Anothr thing is if you need cosmetic parts or engine mods, it's so much more readily avail for Zuk vs Kaws. I hate that.
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Ninja 14
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Shane661
Needs a life
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posted July 12, 2009 09:17 AM
You should definitely get the Suzuki, in that case. 
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14nooby
Zone Head
Posts: 987
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posted July 12, 2009 09:21 AM
Its like the old Ford and Chevy rivalry. Fords cost more to make fast but are faster. Chevys are a dime a dozen just like Busas. Supply and demand my friend, sounds like your mind is made up and when you finish your zuk it will still be slower. Busas make less power on the track than the 14 its a fact. There is no Busa mod for mod that will MPH like a 14. Not trying to be a prick but it is common knowledge that the Busa has been out for 10 years so of course parts are going to be cheaper for it. Check out EBAY there are tons of parts for the BUSA compared to the 14. I would not take a free Busa.
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Ninja ZX-14
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Posts: 111
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posted July 12, 2009 09:21 AM
quote:
I'm just going to say...don't believe everything you read or hear. The Busa motor is great, but if you are expecting 246 REAL hp out of a streetable 1441, you are going to be disappointed.
No, not believing everything I read because this is not what I've read. I spoken with my builder and confirmed it with other builders. This 3mm Busa kit is streetable jus like my 2mm 1417 Kaw. Busa also offers a 4mm kit jus like there is a 3mm kit for the 14 but the 2mm is more relaible for the 14 jus like the 3mm kit is more reliable for the Busa than the 4 mil. Suzuki always have allowed more room to build internally. Trust me, I research everything before I dive in. What I can do for my 14 at $5000.00 will only cost me $3500.00 for the same exact mod for a Busa and the HP will yield more for the Zuk. That's jus how it is right now.
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Ninja 14
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Shane661
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Posts: 11494
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posted July 12, 2009 09:23 AM
quote:
quote:
I'm just going to say...don't believe everything you read or hear. The Busa motor is great, but if you are expecting 246 REAL hp out of a streetable 1441, you are going to be disappointed.
No, not believing everything I read because this is not what I've read. I spoken with my builder and confirmed it with other builders. This 3mm Busa kit is streetable jus like my 2mm 1417 Kaw. Busa also offers a 4mm kit jus like there is a 3mm kit for the 14 but the 2mm is more relaible for the 14 jus like the 3mm kit is more reliable for the Busa than the 4 mil. Suzuki always have allowed more room to build internally. Trust me, I research everything before I dive in. What I can do for my 14 at $5000.00 will only cost me $3500.00 for the same exact mod for a Busa and the HP will yield more for the Zuk. That's jus how it is right now.
Make sure you get the early model cylinder, so that the it doesn't split like the late model ones do.
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06redzx14
Pro
Posts: 1022
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posted July 12, 2009 09:25 AM
I'll take the 2 mil motor as is. let me know. make it a good price and i'll take the whole thing
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06 alien head, no flies, PC+hub, 16/45 44 43, air shifter, dry shot
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Ninja ZX-14
Expert Class
Posts: 111
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posted July 12, 2009 09:26 AM
quote:
quote:
quote:
I'm just going to say...don't believe everything you read or hear. The Busa motor is great, but if you are expecting 246 REAL hp out of a streetable 1441, you are going to be disappointed.
No, not believing everything I read because this is not what I've read. I spoken with my builder and confirmed it with other builders. This 3mm Busa kit is streetable jus like my 2mm 1417 Kaw. Busa also offers a 4mm kit jus like there is a 3mm kit for the 14 but the 2mm is more relaible for the 14 jus like the 3mm kit is more reliable for the Busa than the 4 mil. Suzuki always have allowed more room to build internally. Trust me, I research everything before I dive in. What I can do for my 14 at $5000.00 will only cost me $3500.00 for the same exact mod for a Busa and the HP will yield more for the Zuk. That's jus how it is right now.
Make sure you get the early model cylinder, so that the it doesn't split like the late model ones do.
The early model cylinder as in what year Busa?
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Ninja 14
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06redzx14
Pro
Posts: 1022
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posted July 12, 2009 09:27 AM
99-07 and rods the wrist pins are bigger in the 99-07 as opposed to the 08-09
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06 alien head, no flies, PC+hub, 16/45 44 43, air shifter, dry shot
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Shane661
Needs a life
Posts: 11494
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posted July 12, 2009 09:38 AM
quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
I'm just going to say...don't believe everything you read or hear. The Busa motor is great, but if you are expecting 246 REAL hp out of a streetable 1441, you are going to be disappointed.
No, not believing everything I read because this is not what I've read. I spoken with my builder and confirmed it with other builders. This 3mm Busa kit is streetable jus like my 2mm 1417 Kaw. Busa also offers a 4mm kit jus like there is a 3mm kit for the 14 but the 2mm is more relaible for the 14 jus like the 3mm kit is more reliable for the Busa than the 4 mil. Suzuki always have allowed more room to build internally. Trust me, I research everything before I dive in. What I can do for my 14 at $5000.00 will only cost me $3500.00 for the same exact mod for a Busa and the HP will yield more for the Zuk. That's jus how it is right now.
Make sure you get the early model cylinder, so that the it doesn't split like the late model ones do.
The early model cylinder as in what year Busa?
1st gen. Your builder will know about it.
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Ninja ZX-14
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Posts: 111
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posted July 12, 2009 09:40 AM
I have decided to get the 2nd gen Busa yet because like anything else it cost money and I'm still enjoyng my 14 but I always keep my options open. I'm not loyal to Ford or Chevy, Kaw or Busa. I will drive a mustang or Corvette and I will ride a 14 or a Busa. I don't get caught up in that Brand name garbage because then I will be placing limitations on myself. I like the more comfortable ride of the 14 over the Busa but I like the low end torque of a stock Busa along with the availability of different things after market for it, inside the engine as well as outside (cosmetic). Trust me, if I was to roll up on a Busa, people would be shocked because I've had nothing but Kaws.
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Ninja 14
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Ninja ZX-14
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posted July 12, 2009 09:41 AM
The early model cylinder as in what year Busa?
1st gen. Your builder will know about it.
Thanks 661!
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Ninja 14
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Shane661
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posted July 12, 2009 09:44 AM
 Edited By: Shane661 on 12 Jul 2009 17:45
Do some checking around also on the Busa specific sites. You might be surprised at what some of the 1441 numbers are. Remember, there are correction factors, different types of dyno's, sales hp...etc. The test is at the track.
I like the Busa (my girlfriend has been 211 mph on her Busa, at Maxton). I read up quite a bit on it, too.
Shane
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gilberjj
Needs a job
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posted July 12, 2009 10:25 AM
I'm reading...... keep it coming. I don't think I'll ever tear into my engine unless it goes kaboom, but it's always good to know these things.
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Shane661
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Posts: 11494
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posted July 12, 2009 10:30 AM
Edited By: Shane661 on 12 Jul 2009 18:30
I guess when you analyze the claims of the builder's...you have to ask yourself:
"Can I really expect 45-50% more power out of a 7.5% increase in displacement...even with cams and head work??"
Just something to ponder...
Shane
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Ninja ZX-14
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Posts: 111
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posted July 12, 2009 10:33 AM
quote:
Do some checking around also on the Busa specific sites. You might be surprised at what some of the 1441 numbers are. Remember, there are correction factors, different types of dyno's, sales hp...etc. The test is at the track.
I like the Busa (my girlfriend has been 211 mph on her Busa, at Maxton). I read up quite a bit on it, too.
Shane
Shane, u was talking about a 1441. Thats not a 3mil ova kit on the 2nd Gen, because the 2nd Gen is already a 1440. I'm talking 3 mil over that, which I forget what the cc's are but that's whats making 246 rear wheel HP.
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06redzx14
Pro
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posted July 12, 2009 10:38 AM
1340 stock 1441 is 3 mil with 2 mil crank
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06 alien head, no flies, PC+hub, 16/45 44 43, air shifter, dry shot
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Shane661
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posted July 12, 2009 10:45 AM
2nd gen Busa becomes a 1441 with a 3mm bore. It already has a +2mm stroke compared to the first gen.
A ZX-14 with a 4mm stroker is also a 1441. Same Bore X Stroke. 84 x 65mm.
Shane
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Ninja ZX-14
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Posts: 111
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posted July 12, 2009 10:54 AM
U right Shane. I had my numbers in my head mixed up. Yes the new Busa does come as a 1340 wit a stock 2 mil ova stroke compared to the old Busa. The 1441 is what they tell me is making 246 at the wheel. I ask them how is this so and they all tell me it's because the way the engine is designed, how well the head flows and jus the overall engine set up in comparison to the 14. U can also go larger on the cams in the Busa. The tappets and the buckets are larger. In fact if you want to go really large on the cams for the 14, Carpenter uses the Busa's Tappets. The 14's engine is a bit heavier than the Busa engine as well.
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Ninja 14
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06redzx14
Pro
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posted July 12, 2009 10:54 AM
4 mil crank on top of the 2 mil you already have is 1507 there's something to think about 
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06 alien head, no flies, PC+hub, 16/45 44 43, air shifter, dry shot
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gilberjj
Needs a job
Friend of Fast
Posts: 3196
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posted July 12, 2009 10:57 AM
quote:
4 mil crank on top of the 2 mil you already have is 1507 there's something to think about
yah, think about the piston speed at that point!!!!
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Ninja ZX-14
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Posts: 111
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posted July 12, 2009 11:07 AM
I personally wouldn't do anything to the crank in a Busa because they already have a long enough stroke. The Stroke on a Busa is significantly more than the 14 but the Pistons on the 14 are much larger than the Busa. This explaines why the Busas always have that low end power but the 14's, even the 12's have good top end. I would jus go 3 mil on the pistons with head and cams on the Busa and be done. I wouldn't touch the stroke at all because after all we are still talking street bike, not a track bike, therefore we still need streetability and reliability.
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Ninja 14
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Quarter Pounder
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with Cheese
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posted July 12, 2009 11:16 AM
Question...are all these builders you talking to build only zuk motors?
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SWB 2008 ZX-14
9.19 @ 151
5.98 @ 123
1.53 60'
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