sweetfa65
Expert Class
Posts: 110
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posted July 03, 2009 07:21 PM
Throttle body sync doing my head in!
Hey guys. Just need some help with a throttle body sync queery that's doing my head in.
I've just done my 12k service, and did a throttle body sync for the first time on a non carby bike. The manual was a bit vague in respect to this process. When I was doing the sync I lost track of the air bleed screw turns on the #1 body. That throttle body was showing a bit lower than the others on my Morgan Carbtune II guages. When I tried adjustying that air bleed, the vacuum was not moving up. I then tried turning the #2 screw to observe the change. It had the effect of raising the #1, and lowering the #2. I noticed that one of the screws on the #3 & #4 bodies was turned right down to the seat. Am I right in thinking that these screws just need to be adjusted to equalise the vacuum measurements, or is there more to it than that? ie: Is there a specific vacuum measurement I have to achieve, or does it affect the air/fuel ratio in some way?
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'2013' SE Spark Black & Golden Blazed Green ZX14R. Bog stock after trading my 07 ZX14.
  
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JDC
Zone Head
Posts: 570
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posted July 03, 2009 10:55 PM
I'll be reading and learning from this topic!
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BobC
Pro
Posts: 1736
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posted July 04, 2009 08:22 AM
I think you are right, make 1 & 2 the same as each other, then do the same with 3 & 4. Finally use the centre adjuster to make the two pairs read the same.
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Candy Thunder Blue 2006 ZZR1400
Stock wheelbase
Max: 205.4 mph in 1.25 miles
2012 ZZR1400 in Golden Blazed Green
Brock CT Full System. etc
Max: 203.1 in 1 mile (so far)
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kawasakijockey
Pro
Posts: 1876
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posted July 04, 2009 08:24 AM
 Edited By: kawasakijockey on 4 Jul 2009 17:12
Did you try adjusting the bleed screws before adjusting the linkage synch screw? If you did that is why you have the problem. Maybe you can put the #1 close to where #2 is to start off. Turning the screw in should raise the vacuum if I recall and then you set the idle screw back to 1100rpm if need be. You are right about the manual not getting detailed here at all. You should only try to adjust the bleed screws if the vacuum of that particular throttle body cannot be adjusted between 280 to 300mmHg after the LINKAGE adjustment.
At the correct idle speed you are supposed to adjust the linkage screw for highest vac reading of #1 and #2 to the highest reading of #3 or #4. Probably your idle speed is changing causing the others to read off a bit everytime you adjust one. You have to bring the idle speed back correct after every adjustment. Also snap the throttle too. Then you are to bring the lower vac of #1 or 2 up to the higher reading and do the same with #3 or 4. Spec is somewhere around 290mmHg + or - 10.
____________
Get on the shortbus boys 'cause its time to get schooled.
2007 ZX-14
1.38 60ft
9.03 @ 149mph
8.95 @153 small shot n2o
8.68 @160mph 5lbs boost
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pissear
Expert Class
Professional Cockis Slap Peer
Posts: 309
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posted July 04, 2009 08:31 AM
Pg. 2-16 shows the procedure being you sync the two main throttle plates first. Then you equal 1-2 and 3-4. It does not matter the number but the merc is equal to #1 and #4, or it can be the balance is equal to 2 and 3. Get it? As long as you balance the one bank [call it] to match the other bank of body merc levels. So, re-read the book and page per page is the procedure. If you can reverse engineering and work from page 2-17 back to 2-16 and the sync levels but you still get there? No reason why you could not try and counter the procedure.
You have a solid shaft through the bodies and those are the subthrottles on that one plate. But on the initial throttle plate sync, there are two main shafts for the main throttle plates. Once you sync the mains, these will not change the flow of the physical two main plates.
What you do with the low speed screws are more, you fine tune the idle blend so as to finish the balance. Hey, maybe the main plate has an influence on one of the air screws. It does not matter. What matters is that the tubes of the merc tool are level. Numbers are just numbers. Vacuum is the visual leveling off.
Mains off the 4 nipples are open at the venturi part of the throttle body. 
Low speeds are set farther away from the venturi area. 
Since both shafts run 4 plates, you could use any combo there of, are just two hoses out of the throttle body banks. You will though, need all 4 sync hoses for the low speed settings to blend off each other then match two banks and you are done  .
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way too much light in the place is shoot the lights out and make it really dark inn year ear is F YO and the bike you clanked in on.
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smokinZX14
Needs a life
Posts: 10197
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posted July 04, 2009 01:55 PM
Edited By: smokinZX14 on 4 Jul 2009 21:59
Reading pissear post this is what i get ....Two or a pair of the throttle bodys use the same shaft so no need to sync the pairs ...But you will sync the pairs to each other , meaning you sync 1&2 throttle bodys to read the same Vac as 3&4 throttle bodys .. The air bleeds have nothing to do with sync of the throttle bodys or Butterfly Valves...
I think if i were to sync the throttle bodys i would do it this way ..Run the air bleeds all the way in ( cutting them off , no air ) Write down the amount off turns on each air bleed to seat them ( they should be the same number of turns )...Start engine ( it will not idle with the air bleeds turned off ) Bring the engine to 3000 RPMs and sync 1&2 throttle bodys to read the same Vac reading as 3&4 throttle bodys.. Turn bike off and open the air bleeds back to the factory setting or the amount of turns that you wrote down .... This is how i did my old CBX with 6 carbs back in the day ...
A lot of people set their carbs at idle but when they got the engine up to 5000 RPMs the sync would be off .... Setting them at 3000 the setting or sync would be right on all the way up to 10000 rpms .. The reason this happened was at 3000 the air bleeds are no longer in the picture... Yes they are still bleeding a very small % of air but not enough to toss of the sync were at idle the air bleeds are working at 100% and will toss of the sync ... We found that we got the best power from doing it this way ..
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Smokin Performance Cycles..
Tampa Bay , FL .. Brocks Performance Dealer ..
Gen 2 ZX14R Best ET 8.43 , Best MPH 164.95
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kawasakijockey
Pro
Posts: 1876
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posted July 04, 2009 02:06 PM
Edited By: kawasakijockey on 4 Jul 2009 22:10
I cant see Pissear's post but you are on track Smokin'. The linkage screw sets a pair. You set the highest vac reading of one pair to match the other pair's highest reading by linkage screw first. That just means one throttle body on the left side will match one throttle body on the right side.Then the other two are adjusted by bleed screw to match. If the vac is too low or high of spec then the bleed screws will have to be adjusted on all.
____________
Get on the shortbus boys 'cause its time to get schooled.
2007 ZX-14
1.38 60ft
9.03 @ 149mph
8.95 @153 small shot n2o
8.68 @160mph 5lbs boost
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pissear
Expert Class
Professional Cockis Slap Peer
Posts: 309
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posted July 04, 2009 03:05 PM
OK, we have a totally different animal here. The throttle body does not have fuel circuits like the CBX. Now, I have to slam some social science and counter the, "close the lows and she will not idle" is a fallacy.
The pizz ear passed with flying colors; someone is going to Paz Year Azz Is UP you do it your way.
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way too much light in the place is shoot the lights out and make it really dark inn year ear is F YO and the bike you clanked in on.
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pissear
Expert Class
Professional Cockis Slap Peer
Posts: 309
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posted July 04, 2009 03:13 PM
"No Sharing" is what my friend keeps whispering.. But I am not in competition I said. I can look at that FSM and it bleeds TUNE UUUUUUUUPPPPPPPPPPP!
PazzYearAzzUP is page after page after page IS.
Tell me you don't see it! I cannot out and out tell you it is so simple as we keep sharing to each other that tunemeup.
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way too much light in the place is shoot the lights out and make it really dark inn year ear is F YO and the bike you clanked in on.
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pissear
Expert Class
Professional Cockis Slap Peer
Posts: 309
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posted July 04, 2009 03:19 PM
"The BEST can be beaten!" I never coined that line. I just adhere to it.
I do not need a race track is I proved that to myself long ago. Net works just as well.
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way too much light in the place is shoot the lights out and make it really dark inn year ear is F YO and the bike you clanked in on.
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sweetfa65
Expert Class
Posts: 110
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posted July 04, 2009 06:10 PM
Edited By: sweetfa65 on 5 Jul 2009 02:26
Thanks a lot for the input guys. One part of this process that bugged me is that regardless of how much I turned the screws in, I was not able to get between 280 to 300mmHg of vacuum at idle. My Carbtune gauges were only showing around 260-270mmHg. I ended up just balancing the two pairs (one screw in each bank ended up turned in to it's seat), then balancing the linkage. I ended up with good balance right up to 3000rpm, but not at the suggested vacuum level. How should I go about trying to raise the vacuum measurement?
Does anyone know where I can get an accurate tachometer that hooks up to the stick coil harnesses? I've only got an old inductive one for doing cars. I was going by the bikes tacho, I figured it would be fairly accurate.
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'2013' SE Spark Black & Golden Blazed Green ZX14R. Bog stock after trading my 07 ZX14.
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mike1024
Expert Class
Posts: 172
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posted July 04, 2009 10:11 PM
piss eat makes some really unintelligible posts...
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JDC
Zone Head
Posts: 570
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posted July 05, 2009 06:22 AM
quote:
piss eat makes some really unintelligible posts...
LOL
there are moments I think I get him... and many moons pass when I don't
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kawasakijockey
Pro
Posts: 1876
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posted July 05, 2009 06:35 AM
If you bring the idle reading by the tach up to 1200 rpm and it is in spec, it is good enough. Did you plug the big hose that goes under the airbox?
____________
Get on the shortbus boys 'cause its time to get schooled.
2007 ZX-14
1.38 60ft
9.03 @ 149mph
8.95 @153 small shot n2o
8.68 @160mph 5lbs boost
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1badzx12r
Needs a life
Posts: 8321
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posted July 05, 2009 07:03 AM
on a turbo bike having the low speed screws all the way in ..it idles just fine
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S06nIz4scvI
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sweetfa65
Expert Class
Posts: 110
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posted July 05, 2009 03:12 PM
quote:
If you bring the idle reading by the tach up to 1200 rpm and it is in spec, it is good enough. Did you plug the big hose that goes under the airbox?
Yes, I plugged that hose. The bike is not displaying any problems at idle, and seems to be running just fine. It's wet as a brides nickers here at the moment, so I haven't taken it for a run yet. I just want to check my work with you guys before I take it out for a run.
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'2013' SE Spark Black & Golden Blazed Green ZX14R. Bog stock after trading my 07 ZX14.
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bikermiff
Parking Attendant
Posts: 1
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posted May 01, 2013 01:50 PM
hi you guys. I've synced a lot of carbs in my time and the throttle bodies on my 2003 z1000 which I traded for my zx14. all the stuff you guys speak of makes sense but I've got to ask..... HOW DID YOU GET CLEAR ACCESS TO THE THROTTLE BODIES TO SYNC THEM IN THE FIRST PLACE???
I took as much bodywork off as I could for the sake of having a recce today and truly believe the only way I could sync my throttle bodies is by using x ray vision and 12" fingers. did you guys drop the engine away from the frame or something?
any help for gaining more access would be gratefully recieved.
phil
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Bobby914
Parking Attendant
Dragon slayer
Posts: 5
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posted May 06, 2013 05:04 PM
Yep how the heck did you get in there, getting ready to do mine and a Muzzy block off
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RobBfasternu
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