kaw now
Expert Class
Posts: 446
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posted June 13, 2009 12:21 PM
Dubious you answered
" I am very suprised the bike doesn't throw codes, as the primary TPS is not seeing the secondary driving it open for fast idle, and the ecu doesn't see the resulatnt RPM speed up ...
interesting."
Not totally suprised I tricked an older mid 90's Toyota with a resister for an emissions device and the computer didn't look for it the unit warmed up. The fast idle may just be a customer convenience item a bit of marketing.
While I'm at it how viable is using some epoxy for a plug? Could it fall out going into the engine? Aluminum throttle bodies have large coefficient of expansion whereas epoxy may not.
  
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dattaway2
Novice Class
Ninja's rule
Posts: 51
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posted June 13, 2009 01:12 PM
How reliable is epoxy for the plug? JBWeld rocks. I use it when making brake pads and have 50,000 miles of abuse without a failure. It takes heat and expansion well. Good stuff!
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johnbull
Expert Class
Posts: 314
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posted June 13, 2009 01:33 PM
Wow, what a thread!!!!!!
I finally managed to finished reading it all at one go.
For those of you who dont know, I am running my ZX14 2007 motor in a race car. I did this mod about a month ago when I tuned up my engine by porting the head, higher compression gasket and an M14 exhaust.
The difference on my set up is that I dont have a dash on the car so I dont have any problems with errors etc. What I did was remove the secondary shaft, plug the holes in the tbs with aluminium bushes and sanded down to get a clean finish. I also revoved the servo motor completely (unplugged it) and stuck the secondary TPS in the flat out position so basically its thinking that the secondary flies are always fully open.
Since I did this mod and automapped with the PC5 the engine feels extreemely good. It definately screams and the power feels better than its ever been before.
Have a look, its the orange single seater at 7 mins into the video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VKO42SODQ3M
Racing again tomorrow morning.
Josh
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John Bul Racing. Malta.
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FastestBusaAround
Needs a life
I eat Fish...
Posts: 7889
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posted June 13, 2009 03:53 PM
quote:
quote:
What, the flies? That's old news 1bad...
no stupid .. getting the throttle bodies out without lowering the motor ..and for your info i got my zx14 in april of 06
Who you callin' stupid? dickhead.  Yer startin' to piss me off now...maybe you need to go have a chat with ur favorite bible thumper...wtf's his name....you know that dickwad from the other site? I forget his name - the guy from Texas, ur buddy... 
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FYYFF!!!
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FastestBusaAround
Needs a life
I eat Fish...
Posts: 7889
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posted June 13, 2009 03:57 PM
quote:
Dubious you answered
" I am very suprised the bike doesn't throw codes, as the primary TPS is not seeing the secondary driving it open for fast idle, and the ecu doesn't see the resulatnt RPM speed up ...
interesting."
Not totally suprised I tricked an older mid 90's Toyota with a resister for an emissions device and the computer didn't look for it the unit warmed up. The fast idle may just be a customer convenience item a bit of marketing.
While I'm at it how viable is using some epoxy for a plug? Could it fall out going into the engine? Aluminum throttle bodies have large coefficient of expansion whereas epoxy may not.
Ummm NO - the fast idle is there to prevent the bike from stalling when cold. That's the design of this particular ignition system, like the choke was in the old days. It's old technology, one that Kwak should have done away with altogether. You don't see that anymore in the cars of today, but we're not using a closed loop emissions system like most cars do, so I'm guessing that's partly why it's got to be there. There will be times when his bike will stall in cold...at startup.
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FYYFF!!!
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1badzx12r
Needs a life
Posts: 8321
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posted June 13, 2009 04:10 PM
FBA ..i can't help it your stupid . and your mind going to muck
dat what happens when you swallow to many fish eggs .. you horn blowing peckerhead
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S06nIz4scvI
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dubious
Needs a life
Needs more time to ride!
Posts: 8442
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posted June 13, 2009 05:10 PM
quote:
Dubious you answered
" I am very suprised the bike doesn't throw codes, as the primary TPS is not seeing the secondary driving it open for fast idle, and the ecu doesn't see the resulatnt RPM speed up ...
interesting."
Not totally suprised I tricked an older mid 90's Toyota with a resister for an emissions device and the computer didn't look for it the unit warmed up. The fast idle may just be a customer convenience item a bit of marketing.
While I'm at it how viable is using some epoxy for a plug? Could it fall out going into the engine? Aluminum throttle bodies have large coefficient of expansion whereas epoxy may not.
I know of many who have used JB weld on their GSXRs with the secondary shaft removed without issue. Prep is imporatant. clean it up with brake clean and some 1000 grit around the holes IMO
____________
natural selection.....
destiny will overcome intervention.
Some are not worthy of the effort.
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87gtNOS
Zone Head
Posts: 620
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posted June 13, 2009 06:38 PM
quote:
Wow, what a thread!!!!!!
I finally managed to finished reading it all at one go.
For those of you who dont know, I am running my ZX14 2007 motor in a race car. I did this mod about a month ago when I tuned up my engine by porting the head, higher compression gasket and an M14 exhaust.
The difference on my set up is that I dont have a dash on the car so I dont have any problems with errors etc. What I did was remove the secondary shaft, plug the holes in the tbs with aluminium bushes and sanded down to get a clean finish. I also revoved the servo motor completely (unplugged it) and stuck the secondary TPS in the flat out position so basically its thinking that the secondary flies are always fully open.
Since I did this mod and automapped with the PC5 the engine feels extreemely good. It definately screams and the power feels better than its ever been before.
Have a look, its the orange single seater at 7 mins into the video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VKO42SODQ3M
Racing again tomorrow morning.
Josh
This is really good info!!
This can be easily simulated by leaving the shaft in and removing the sec tps and locking it WOT. Then check for anything wrong!
I may do this and if the bike remains normal, I'll remove the shaft!
____________
01 ZX12R
07 ZX14 - YEAH BABY!
03 ZX9R-traded in for the 14!!! June 07!
05 636-traded in for the 9 Sept 05
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dubious
Needs a life
Needs more time to ride!
Posts: 8442
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posted June 13, 2009 08:47 PM
I'm not home for 4 more days.
When you doin it 87GOTNOS?
____________
natural selection.....
destiny will overcome intervention.
Some are not worthy of the effort.
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pissear
Expert Class
Professional Cockis Slap Peer
Posts: 309
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posted June 14, 2009 06:32 PM
Port say call..... Thought I'd bring dis front and center. Since datta's degree is worthless, I was wondering if you could straighten out the questions and turn them into the abstract where it loops itself it rings so true the math.
Kind of crossed the yellow line on your side is going to side shadow the practical events, Port is going to call.
____________
way too much light in the place is shoot the lights out and make it really dark inn year ear is F YO and the bike you clanked in on.
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87gtNOS
Zone Head
Posts: 620
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posted June 15, 2009 03:43 AM
quote:
I'm not home for 4 more days.
When you doin it 87GOTNOS?
Lyle, I live in a condo and don't have the time to really play around with this until the Fall. My weekends are taken up with fishin'!
But you know, I may get some ambition and check my sec tps voltage (first) then remove it and lock it at WOT yet!!!
If this works, and you guys that have had a good look a the whole TB's, can confirm that the Actuator can be left installed minus the sec shaft, we are good to go I would think!!
____________
01 ZX12R
07 ZX14 - YEAH BABY!
03 ZX9R-traded in for the 14!!! June 07!
05 636-traded in for the 9 Sept 05
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pissear
Expert Class
Professional Cockis Slap Peer
Posts: 309
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posted June 15, 2009 05:04 AM
If you locked the subs open = She codes
If you pull the sub-plates = She does not code.
If you pull the connector off the throttle body = She codes.
If you yank the sub-sensor off = She codes.
If you remove the sub-shaft = She codes.
If you remove the actuator = She codes.
If you listen to Port = She codes just for the hell of it.
If you follow datta = She does not code.
Dis is open book, Port. Explain in detail, why and how each was prepared to cause a code. Ah, just pick one... Make it easy for ya.
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way too much light in the place is shoot the lights out and make it really dark inn year ear is F YO and the bike you clanked in on.
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Compton
Zone Head
Posts: 969
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posted June 15, 2009 07:00 AM
works perfect, no codes. its a zx10r, but same animal. I'm doing mine this week too.
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b.w.
zx14, little longer, little louder, little lower.
08 Busa, just a little longer and louder and lower than the 14
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dattaway2
Novice Class
Ninja's rule
Posts: 51
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posted June 15, 2009 07:05 AM
Good pictures!
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Superman T
Pro
Posts: 1831
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posted June 15, 2009 07:20 AM
a lot of info and opinions!
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dubious
Needs a life
Needs more time to ride!
Posts: 8442
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posted June 15, 2009 09:56 AM
____________
natural selection.....
destiny will overcome intervention.
Some are not worthy of the effort.
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pissear
Expert Class
Professional Cockis Slap Peer
Posts: 309
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posted June 15, 2009 10:11 AM
Dar she blows...... mee!
My pee-pee hurts it's so hard... Stop showing those porn positions.
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way too much light in the place is shoot the lights out and make it really dark inn year ear is F YO and the bike you clanked in on.
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Port_Angeles_NINJA
Expert Class
Posts: 388
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posted June 15, 2009 11:02 AM
pissdrinker
quote:
Port say call..... Thought I'd bring dis front and center. Since datta's degree is worthless, I was wondering if you could straighten out the questions and turn them into the abstract where it loops itself it rings so true the math.
Kind of crossed the yellow line on your side is going to side shadow the practical events, Port is going to call.
Like eveyrone else here, i don't know what the fuck you are saying. It seems that you keep calling me out about something. I keep seeing "Port" in your posts. You have a hardon for me for some reason?
If you have something to say, say it. Just use english instead of hiding behind your Yoda jibberish. If you phrase your question or concern in such a way that it can be understood i will be happy to respond to you. I would have responded to your earlier posts friday, saturday, sunday but i actually have better things to do on the weekend than get on the internet and flame people.
Otherwise, Fuck Off you Fucking jibberish talking - spending the weekend on mommys computer - troll motherfucker.
____________
Red/Black 85' GPZ900
Blue 07' ZX14
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pissear
Expert Class
Professional Cockis Slap Peer
Posts: 309
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posted June 15, 2009 02:18 PM
Thank you, POrk for your acknowledgment.
Did I not read you took to datta's education, as not what I call being all that complimentary to his ability. It was more a dis that I read. And you are pretty good at it too.
I don't know what you mean if you can dish it out, and now datta and Comp, sort of pointed the way? {shrugged shoulders?] You entered the thread with what?
What I read of you was more "troll" jubberish worse than I can think up. What now is going to happen is I think I quoted Dub a few times.
Was that the confusing part of my posts? Reading Dis Lex ic? Now you have me confused. I thought I would say less in my posts, so you could take one question at a time, to help with what Dub was confused about.
I just thought you had a clue being you pretty much went after, datta. And when someone fucks up the flow, I figure they throw whatever they say is what they are.
I say, I am one piss ear aim'd at a cowboy boot. And If I hand did it off to you. I doubt you could tell which way to pour out my pee nice. I am being as nice as you were to datta whole thread here.
So, are you a motherfucking troll, or will you type on mommny/s lap top is play wit her keys and would you now please either troll what you say you are is I can answer Dub's questions word for word.
What you need to do now, Port, is cut and paste to the chase. Ask mommy how to do that for you. Take Dub's questions and just answer as best you can, so others know that of all pee poles, YOU look the troll about things. Unless you cannot keep up wit the high tech to tuning; so there is no steps missed as in hole a piston.
WE should be able to follow you excellent pro'z, as if reading right out of the factory service manual.
So, after 6 or so pages of jubberishing around...... Notice the fun is over and now we wee'd out the rag weed from the corn cob. I do not care how you Cake Walk It.... It is time to PAYup.
You may now have the floor, Port. Either scroll back a bit to find the quotes, or I can gladly cut and paste Dub's requests for you.
And notice how I have two variables is make me look stu pit. I say, you are a no show so that clocks that one off as a troll. The second one is you come back, do not answer, make an excuse as if you are a back marker heading for the front, as iffy?
Or, you come back and that text just flows out the mouth like install key fob and she fires right off.... Because you found the problem being you have to know the bike cold to start it up so it purrs warm in the pits is you came to race, correct?
____________
way too much light in the place is shoot the lights out and make it really dark inn year ear is F YO and the bike you clanked in on.
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Obba
Expert Class
Posts: 455
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posted June 15, 2009 02:22 PM
Compton,
Dare we ask what your voltage was Before and After, or doesn't it matter what the voltage is?
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87gtNOS
Zone Head
Posts: 620
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posted June 15, 2009 03:18 PM
quote:
If you locked the subs open = She codes
If you pull the sub-plates = She does not code.
If you pull the connector off the throttle body = She codes.
If you yank the sub-sensor off = She codes.
If you remove the sub-shaft = She codes.
If you remove the actuator = She codes.
If you listen to Port = She codes just for the hell of it.
If you follow datta = She does not code.
Dis is open book, Port. Explain in detail, why and how each was prepared to cause a code. Ah, just pick one... Make it easy for ya.
Hub, you are correct. I think most of us realize this too. What you have said here (and about the TRE many times!!!) is that if you hack the system and deviate from the SPECS, then the ECU (which is only going by tables) will CODE. Even IF it doesn't SHOW you a code on the screen! The ECU only knows what it was programmed for and something won't be right....although the error may be too small to detect.
However, sometimes deviating from the SPECS (as the manual shows) can bring us a positive result. My TRE is a positive result and if LOCKING open the sec TPS gives no VISIBLE code, and the bike runs the same, then that's a POSITIVE result too!!!
And Hub, that is the part of the equation you must sometimes forget!
____________
01 ZX12R
07 ZX14 - YEAH BABY!
03 ZX9R-traded in for the 14!!! June 07!
05 636-traded in for the 9 Sept 05
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Port_Angeles_NINJA
Expert Class
Posts: 388
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posted June 15, 2009 04:13 PM
pissear the pissdrinker,
It still hurts the head to try to read, but you are getting closer to typing in english. Baby steps i guess, congratulations for your progress. I get the felling that the questions in your previous post are the ones you want answered, so here you go (cutting and pasting - are you proud of me?).
"If you locked the subs open = She codes" Because the ecu is attemping to move the subs to a more closed position. The subthrottle sensor input is reporting that they are staying full open.
"If you pull the sub-plates = She does not code." Because the linkage between the stepper motor and the subthrottle sensor is intact. The feedback from the sensor is following the ECU's outputs.
"If you pull the connector off the throttle body = She codes." The ECU detects an open circuit in the wiring to the stepper motor.
"If you yank the sub-sensor off = She codes." ECU is not getting input from the sub-sensor that matches it's commands to the stepper motor
"If you remove the sub-shaft = She codes." Same reason as the last one
"If you remove the actuator = She codes." Unplug the actuator = open circuit detected, physically remove the actuator = same reason as the last 2
"If you listen to Port = She codes just for the hell of it." She does not like me, i suppose
"If you follow datta = She does not code." To the ECU, this is the same as the pulling the plates, the stepper and the sub-sensor are still mechanically linked and move in unison
____________
Red/Black 85' GPZ900
Blue 07' ZX14
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pissear
Expert Class
Professional Cockis Slap Peer
Posts: 309
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posted June 15, 2009 06:01 PM
quote:
Does the bike throw a code still?
when does it throw a code? when cold?
Does the bike throw codes when riding it?
Does the bike throw codes after its warm?
What process are you using to clear codes?
I have been repeating myself and the same question over and over again.
I wanted to contact you via email, or phone but that was ignored or avoided.
are you here to help?
I have never questioned your integrity or ability, a simple answer to my questions would be appreciated,
They are simple questions.... do you have the answers?
Port. You copied an pasted my answers. Those were not Dub's questions. All you did was repeat my answers.
Here are Dub's quotes. Could you now answer those above> Thanks, Port... Here ya go...
Does the bike throw a code still = Port's answer.
Does the bike throw codes when riding = Port says.
Do you see Dub's Q's now?
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way too much light in the place is shoot the lights out and make it really dark inn year ear is F YO and the bike you clanked in on.
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pissear
Expert Class
Professional Cockis Slap Peer
Posts: 309
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posted June 15, 2009 06:41 PM
 Edited By: pissear on 16 Jun 2009 02:42
I am going back to jibberishness. Can't follow directions. Better I insult you so you sit up take notice like the jibbing you are gonna get anyway. You included, Port!
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way too much light in the place is shoot the lights out and make it really dark inn year ear is F YO and the bike you clanked in on.
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FastestBusaAround
Needs a life
I eat Fish...
Posts: 7889
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posted June 15, 2009 06:44 PM
wtf????? This fucking thread's gone awry. What started as a good thread with a pile of knowledge, turns out to be a fucking pissing match. Fuck you PISSHEAD...fucking learn to speak fucking ENGLISH or fuck the HELL off. No one actually understands a fucking thing you belch out around here in any case, nor do they even care either, dipshit. Dis be dat and dat be dis...blah, blah fucking blah you dumb fuck moron...FUCK YOU.   .
____________
FYYFF!!!
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