dubious
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posted June 11, 2009 10:06 PM
 Edited By: dubious on 12 Jun 2009 06:08
Yes Steve
The secondary shaft has a cam on it on the throttle cable end of the TB's.
Opposite end of the TPS for each shaft
The stepper motor opens the secondary WFO for fast / cold idle.
When the secondaries go wide open the cam drives a cam on the primary shaft to activate and open the primaries 10-20%, thus fast / cold idle RPM picks up.
The ecu sees low temp coolant, tells stepper to go WFO for fast idle until warm.
When the primary TPS doesn't give a xxx voltage for fast idle position10-20% open, ECU sees a FI fault.
I mentioned this a while ago.
I am over not having a fast idle... no biggie for me.
Mine is more race than street oriented now anyway.
What I need to know is if the FI error alarm clears itself when the bike is warm.
Do I have to cycle the ignition to clear it?
What is involved to clear the cold idle alarm, and will I have alarms once up to operating temp
____________
natural selection.....
destiny will overcome intervention.
Some are not worthy of the effort.
  
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FastestBusaAround
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posted June 11, 2009 10:40 PM
I understand -- about the only way I can think of clearing the codes, would be to get something down the CANBUS, but you'd need a scan tool setup for that bus...which I have not yet seen. Easy to do do if you're talking about a car, but nothing I've seen yet for these bikes. Ask your dealer if they can clear codes with a diagnostic tool...
I'm guessing with the mod he did, you lose the connection to the cam with no way to get it back? Without having seen it in person, I'm a bit lost.
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FYYFF!!!
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dattaway2
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posted June 12, 2009 05:46 AM
Put your voltmeters away. You don't know how to use them. Don't use it for setting the position. You'll see the same voltage no matter what position until it reaches each end. Your voltmeter would read the same an any position, which is useless. Aren't you guys smart. Set the midpoint between the places where the servo hits the limit on the TPS. I know that's hard for the pedandic mechanic who thinks he knows everything. Quit wasting shop time and get to work and fix something!
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Shane661
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posted June 12, 2009 06:08 AM
Edited By: Shane661 on 12 Jun 2009 14:12
I know that you all are probably aware of the error code history and clearing info...but I wasn't:
I had an issue at the track and the code would not clear. It turned out that I had to actually ride the bike to get it to clear (it was caused due to no speedo signal).
Shane
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dubious
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posted June 12, 2009 06:26 AM
Edited By: dubious on 12 Jun 2009 14:27
Dattaway2
please put your ego in your pocket for a minute and answer a few simple questions for me.
Does the bike throw a code still?
when does it throw a code? when cold?
Does the bike throw codes when riding it?
Does the bike throw codes after its warm?
What process are you using to clear codes?
I have been repeating myself and the same question over and over again.
I wanted to contact you via email, or phone but that was ignored or avoided.
are you here to help?
I have never questioned your integrity or ability, a simple answer to my questions would be appreciated,
They are simple questions.... do you have the answers?
____________
natural selection.....
destiny will overcome intervention.
Some are not worthy of the effort.
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dattaway2
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posted June 12, 2009 06:43 AM
No more codes. Its all good. I installed the TPS severely out of range. There was only about 80% span range for the stepper motor. That's why it kept bumping on the end.
Its a simple closed loop position circuit. The voltage is always going to be the same as long as the feedback amplifier can compensate. That's why a voltage reading isn't going to do much than tell the tech the circuit is alive and above or below range. When it was aligned too far the way I had it, the voltage would drop too low as the stepper motor was hammering away trying to get more range. It was bumping against the edge of the TPS internal stops.
To summarize, I made a mistake with the TPS alignment. Corrected and I made an amazing flame fest out of what should be a simple (and it was) mod. I learned from someone here that I pulled the throttle bodies out the hard way by dropping the engine. So I learned a few things and likely confused everyone else much more. I hope this event was all for the better.
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dubious
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posted June 12, 2009 07:03 AM
Edited By: dubious on 12 Jun 2009 15:05
THANKYOU my friend!
I am good as gold now.
Modified TB's with no shaft in the works!
Woo hoo!
Much appreciated!
All is good from my perspective.
Thanks for your input and posting it!
Much appreciated.
Thanks again,
Lyle
____________
natural selection.....
destiny will overcome intervention.
Some are not worthy of the effort.
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pissear
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posted June 12, 2009 07:11 AM
Keep the ego going, datta. It reads funnier that way.
It is better you keep questioning around and around. Dishit is too simple and is going to bonk your head once you watch the steps to the stepper.
Keep cranking the page is. I am just an observer now. Port, needs to chime in on the answers for you, Dub >> Holds mouth over fingers is that reverse is, Click [my] Engineering.
____________
way too much light in the place is shoot the lights out and make it really dark inn year ear is F YO and the bike you clanked in on.
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dattaway2
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posted June 12, 2009 07:13 AM
Sorry for the confusion. I post after the nightshift and my mind is going in my old age too. Next time I'll post up after I test something good first!
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pissear
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posted June 12, 2009 07:14 AM
quote:
please put your ego [UP front, Port] in your pocket for a minute and answer a few simple questions for me.
Does the bike throw a code still?
when does it throw a code? when cold?
Does the bike throw codes when riding it?
Does the bike throw codes after its warm?
What process are you using to clear codes?
are you here to help?
They are simple questions.... do you have the answers?
Sits back and sips the brew of the bean.
____________
way too much light in the place is shoot the lights out and make it really dark inn year ear is F YO and the bike you clanked in on.
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Port_Angeles_NINJA
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posted June 12, 2009 10:50 AM
quote:
Keep the ego going, datta. It reads funnier that way.
It is better you keep questioning around and around. Dishit is too simple and is going to bonk your head once you watch the steps to the stepper.
Keep cranking the page is. I am just an observer now. Port, needs to chime in on the answers for you, Dub >> Holds mouth over fingers is that reverse is, Click [my] Engineering.
??? WTF
____________
Red/Black 85' GPZ900
Blue 07' ZX14
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dubious
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posted June 12, 2009 12:07 PM
quote:
??? WTF
+1
____________
natural selection.....
destiny will overcome intervention.
Some are not worthy of the effort.
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1badzx12r
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posted June 12, 2009 01:43 PM
quote:
I learned from someone here that I pulled the throttle bodies out the hard way by dropping the engine. .
i was probably the 1st guy to discover you can pull'em without engine removal .. i had to pull my TB's so many times ...
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S06nIz4scvI
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FastestBusaAround
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posted June 12, 2009 04:49 PM
What, the flies? That's old news 1bad...was done before you had your ZX, by two of us here @ Bikeland back in April 06, 3 years ago. You can even dig up the posts for yourself and see.
Dattaway2 - just an FYI - in any repair manual procedure, it indicates the starting voltage from the TPS output, so there has to be some reason behind it. Not doubting that it works in your case, just telling you what I know from past experiences when adjusting these things.
Glad you got it all sorted it though. Thanks for posting up on this mod... Party on!
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FYYFF!!!
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pissear
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posted June 12, 2009 08:42 PM
Edited By: pissear on 13 Jun 2009 04:46
quote:
Does the bike throw a code still?
when does it throw a code? when cold?
Does the bike throw codes when riding it?
Does the bike throw codes after its warm?
What process are you using to clear codes?
are you here to help?
I am going to say it in simple terms. Can you PORT?? Answer some basic questions that is listed here. I can bang out every step to every question. I am just hanging back because you will not be spinning your gears if you write to one person so they understand what you seem to understand is FI.
I sort of asked nicely in a way not to pull down your zipper and expose a, poo sea behind door #2. To which I have to repeat my WTF? is the fuck you do know your shit or you are full of shit is which is it now?
You gonna WTF? me is spelled out in so many words you should have figured it out and just answer the Dub's Q.'s.
Do not start posting in a thread you cannot stay up with is this is where the big boys hang your balls out to dry. So, do not start crying you have to come back with some excuse like you start throwing the ego around is we are going to show you how we play social science with your abstract or whatever the fuck you post is it better walk as I see it in the factory shop manual or what fucking book are you reading from?
Now, are we on the same page is that datta enough WTFor ya? Answer the questions, hot shot! Day can hang dare forever is pay that tune wit me, fell ear.
____________
way too much light in the place is shoot the lights out and make it really dark inn year ear is F YO and the bike you clanked in on.
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dubious
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posted June 12, 2009 08:49 PM
I am very suprised the bike doesn't throw codes, as the primary TPS is not seeing the secondary driving it open for fast idle, and the ecu doesn't see the resulatnt RPM speed up ...
interesting.
____________
natural selection.....
destiny will overcome intervention.
Some are not worthy of the effort.
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Obba
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posted June 13, 2009 12:25 AM
Pissear,
Not to sure, with your 'mixed (love it), lingo', but are you having a go at FBA?
I'm with him. TPS (AFAIK), stands for Throttle Position Sensor. The voltage as per manual, states that the base line voltage should be 0.62v.
As FBA repeats, that's what is said - period!
If you or Data2 or other posters are going to believe that Kawasaki has got it wrong, then ok.
The mod Data2 did should have had NO EFFECT whatsoever on the TPS reading (if he had aligned as pre dissasembly [spell]. He admits he may have made an error with the position, that's fair enough.
Dub: All he has done (and grats to him), is remove 'shorten' the bar that lays across the 4 ports.
All kudos for him to be the first, it's a great risky mod! BUT - if he had known as now, to have made prior measurments to the TPS voltage and put it back as pre, then we wouldn't be here.
....huh oh,, the misses is here,, food,,, ,620pm in Aus,, gotta go, ,,,
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Compton
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posted June 13, 2009 03:37 AM
so my friends 10 here at the ama race has his shaft pulled, he said just to make sure everything that is being fooled was lined up right. doesn't get an FI light ever. when we pop the tank to change the plugs i'll snap a couple of pictures.
____________
b.w.
zx14, little longer, little louder, little lower.
08 Busa, just a little longer and louder and lower than the 14
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FastestBusaAround
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posted June 13, 2009 03:40 AM
He wasn't havin' a go at me, but at Dattaway2, for not really answering Lyle's questions...
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FYYFF!!!
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dattaway2
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posted June 13, 2009 04:29 AM
About 500 miles, no error codes. Runs good. Cold idle is rather low, but doesn't die or hesitate when taking off. I don't miss the high idle, but when winter comes that might be another story.
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pissear
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posted June 13, 2009 06:04 AM
Edited By: pissear on 13 Jun 2009 14:07
Oh, goodness no, I am not after anyone. This is so basic a move, I cannot believe it is written right there in the book and the fuck if I am missing something on that page.
I am just an observer. I am watching the Ohm's Law go wiZzzzzzzzzing bye. I have no electrical engineering background. I am a home grown on my own backyard mech key nick. I key fob and crash test is how I get my answers. Call me a, 'crash dummy.' Dummy dumb, dumb am I.
Just having fun is do the mods and learn it on your own are the questions answered. I am rod-less and full of codes on the dash.
Dattaway just kept at something that I tried at the get-go at one time. Only I was trying it all wrong is found out another way. The rest is history for me. I have my sub-less shaft sitting in a box. I already have, most of all the mods in my head for that one sub to clear the code like, datta has proven.
I would have the rod swiveling in a tube. It is more complex a build. It is, how to hand build the rod up to the sensor. Watt datta has done is to use the rod section and actuator in the short and compact throw of it. Datta's setup is much cleaner, "IF" you want to waste that rod. I have no problem with that. His bike, his mod.
No parts [available you need to replace back to stock is to buy it, unit-complete] for that throttle body is my only concern for resale [IF, I had the one throttle body]. Not that it is important. The person just might mod the bike up as datta. WE both have the shaft removed. I have my fuel cutter with this throttle body. So, I am set to build the same deal, but why?
I am more in watching the steps a poster brings in. That is their practical event to the abstract written in the FSM. I can see plenty of mis-steps and if there are that many posts with that many contributing and I can walk the book as far as I can read it up to that code, it sure is amazing to watch how FI is interpreted as in 'social science' is catch you sleeping at the light.
Let alone you bringing that thing up to the line......... Ha ha ha ahaaaaaaaaa I can't get enough of 38 websites banging out the same myths. Dis is open book! Damn! I can trophy the troups. It's like racing, as in the "Head Game."
Get the -uck up to the line.......Hey! You forgot your F..... Eye Sthink I think, Dare-4 = Open BOOK! < Bring your wrist too.
____________
way too much light in the place is shoot the lights out and make it really dark inn year ear is F YO and the bike you clanked in on.
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dattaway2
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posted June 13, 2009 06:17 AM
If the software for the ECU could be hacked, I'd like to get rid of that servo completely! That thing has some weight.
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pissear
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posted June 13, 2009 06:29 AM
datta is one reason I removed most of the easier parts of bulk off the bike. Grams turn to ounces is pound for pound... Why she leaves the ground.
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way too much light in the place is shoot the lights out and make it really dark inn year ear is F YO and the bike you clanked in on.
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1badzx12r
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posted June 13, 2009 07:24 AM
quote:
What, the flies? That's old news 1bad...
no stupid .. getting the throttle bodies out without lowering the motor ..and for your info i got my zx14 in april of 06
____________
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S06nIz4scvI
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1badzx12r
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posted June 13, 2009 07:31 AM
quote:
About 500 miles, no error codes. Runs good. Cold idle is rather low, but doesn't die or hesitate when taking off. I don't miss the high idle, but when winter comes that might be another story.
when you turbo a zx14 high idle goes away also .. i have to crack the throttle to start the bike .. good thing mines not cold nature
____________
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S06nIz4scvI
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