dattaway2
Novice Class
Ninja's rule
Posts: 51
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posted June 08, 2009 09:25 AM
Ran a 50 mile ride. No problems with giving the TPS 10 degrees more freedom. First gear is a riot as always. But it feels like it wants to go past 11500 rpm. The bike certainly gets air underneath it. Throttle control is altitude control. Second gear is more manageable. Aside from the fun, it felt like the engine could be drifting toward the lean side. I'll need to get a map for this for sure.
   
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pissear
Expert Class
Professional Cockis Slap Peer
Posts: 309
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posted June 08, 2009 10:43 AM
Just think if you kept both in and now blend the bottom of the front wheel .eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
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way too much light in the place is shoot the lights out and make it really dark inn year ear is F YO and the bike you clanked in on.
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Sticks_n_Stones
Needs a job
Posts: 3930
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posted June 08, 2009 11:55 AM
quote:
How about removing both sets of butterflys and having a big one in the front of the airbox just behind the filter? That would clean up the airflow in the bellmouths.
The tps would have to be there too but the airbox is sealed and no throttle body balancing would be neccessary.
Just a crazy thought.
Uneven airflow at part throttle would give poor fuel economy and uneven fueling. It would kick ass at full throttle though! Seen a sort of similiar setup used on TPI and LS1 engines that make serious RPMs - but only on full race engines. The had a large plenum elbow dropping straight onto the 8 intake runners. Great for simplicity and high flow volumes, but among the worst possible ideas for lower rpms and part throttle.
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'06 zx14
Muzzy M10/M14
PCIII w/ Muzzy map
Flies out K&N in!
bits n pieces...
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dubious
Needs a life
Needs more time to ride!
Posts: 8442
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posted June 08, 2009 12:52 PM
Dattaway
Can you elaborate on the fi codes, when what etc.
You getting any hot?
Only when cold?
If you bring the rpm up manually or ride it while it warms up, does it throw a code?
Thanks,
Lyle
____________
natural selection.....
destiny will overcome intervention.
Some are not worthy of the effort.
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Obba
Expert Class
Posts: 455
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posted June 08, 2009 03:08 PM
 Edited By: Obba on 8 Jun 2009 23:18
Just watched that Vid.
Aren't you turning it WAAAAYYYY!!!! to much for that slight voltage change???
As Sticks says - and i think - it should just be a very tiny turn.
Looked to me as though you were just turning it anywhere and everywhere to get the voltage you wanted.
FBA says 0.62 - you say 1.62.
From what i know the 'most' TPS's go from .05v to 5.0v - and is from idle to full open.
If you check the degree's of the shaft rotation, say 120ยบ then you can work out 'roughly' how many degrees of movement for the voltage required.
If you have the wrong voltage, then your fuel mixture will be out as well,
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87gtNOS
Zone Head
Posts: 620
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posted June 08, 2009 03:23 PM
Edited By: 87gtNOS on 8 Jun 2009 23:25
Code 32 is Subthrottle V out of range...spec is 0.2v to 4.8v
Code 11 is the main TPS, same specs
Code 62 is the sub throttle Actuator.....signal out of range, ECU cuts power to actuator
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01 ZX12R
07 ZX14 - YEAH BABY!
03 ZX9R-traded in for the 14!!! June 07!
05 636-traded in for the 9 Sept 05
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87gtNOS
Zone Head
Posts: 620
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posted June 08, 2009 03:45 PM
sub throttle TPS .....
+ sensor's BL lead
- sensor's BR/BK lead
input voltage should be 4.75v to 5.25v
output voltage testing...
+ BL/W lead
- BR/BK lead
closed 0.62v
flies wide open, 4.14 or less
This is all tested with the KEY on.
So you will have a VARIANCE of INPUT voltage based on this.
so take 0.62 and DIVIDE by your INPUT voltage and that should be the closed OUTPUT voltage
and take 4.14 and DIVIDE by YOUR INPUT voltage and that should be your sub's WOT voltage.
____________
01 ZX12R
07 ZX14 - YEAH BABY!
03 ZX9R-traded in for the 14!!! June 07!
05 636-traded in for the 9 Sept 05
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87gtNOS
Zone Head
Posts: 620
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posted June 08, 2009 03:47 PM
so to me, all this means is the ACTUATOR has to make the subTPS read the specs....
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01 ZX12R
07 ZX14 - YEAH BABY!
03 ZX9R-traded in for the 14!!! June 07!
05 636-traded in for the 9 Sept 05
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87gtNOS
Zone Head
Posts: 620
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posted June 08, 2009 03:51 PM
Guys, is the actuator like my 05 636 exhaust valve actuator? In that it just goes in circles when the cables are removed? When it's installed, the actuator 'self centers' itself by rotating one way until it hits the 'stop', then rotates the other way and hits the 'stop'. It does this cycle everytime you turn on the key.
Is this how the sub throttle actuator works?
Am I thinking too hard?!!
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01 ZX12R
07 ZX14 - YEAH BABY!
03 ZX9R-traded in for the 14!!! June 07!
05 636-traded in for the 9 Sept 05
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dattaway2
Novice Class
Ninja's rule
Posts: 51
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posted June 08, 2009 06:53 PM
Yes, the actuator will move from one extreme to another to keep the idle voltage precisely at 1.62 volts. At rest, my bike wants exactly 1.62 volts, but I guess others are programmed for 0.62. It will tick the actuator to track the programmed voltage. It will only throw a code if it can't get the voltage it needs. That's when you heard it go nuts. No error codes while I was twisting it in that video. Its happy that it can move the full range now...
Not sure what the exact error code before was. Never checked how to get the number.
Its all good now that the TPS is placed to see the full range of movement!
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dubious
Needs a life
Needs more time to ride!
Posts: 8442
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posted June 08, 2009 08:29 PM
where is the video?
am I retarded? I didn't see no vid in this post...
____________
natural selection.....
destiny will overcome intervention.
Some are not worthy of the effort.
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dattaway2
Novice Class
Ninja's rule
Posts: 51
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posted June 08, 2009 08:32 PM
Its me playing with the secondary TPS and trying to get an error:
http://www.dattaway.net/tps.avi
...turns out I had the TPS horribly mounted out of range!
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FastestBusaAround
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I eat Fish...
Posts: 7889
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posted June 09, 2009 03:36 AM
It's not what the "bike wants". You have to get that voltage down to spec, which is .62 at idle, or it will not run correctly and it will just thrown codes from time to time, as you saw. All the mapping in the world won't fix that issue. it has to get to factory spec, or close. There's no reason I can think of as to why you can't get it down to .62...unless you don't have the range in motion that you need to mount the TPS correctly?
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FYYFF!!!
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FastestBusaAround
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I eat Fish...
Posts: 7889
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posted June 09, 2009 03:43 AM
Just watched your vid, I see that you are able to get to .62 easily. Am I missing something here? BTW, when setting the TPS at idle, you're probably best off starting with ignition on, but the engine NOT running...then fine tune,lock it in and try it once you've got the right position. Then finally, test again with the bike running.
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FYYFF!!!
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BobC
Pro
Posts: 1736
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posted June 09, 2009 03:44 AM
quote:
quote:
How about removing both sets of butterflys and having a big one in the front of the airbox just behind the filter? That would clean up the airflow in the bellmouths.
The tps would have to be there too but the airbox is sealed and no throttle body balancing would be neccessary.
Just a crazy thought.
Uneven airflow at part throttle would give poor fuel economy and uneven fueling. It would kick ass at full throttle though! Seen a sort of similiar setup used on TPI and LS1 engines that make serious RPMs - but only on full race engines. The had a large plenum elbow dropping straight onto the 8 intake runners. Great for simplicity and high flow volumes, but among the worst possible ideas for lower rpms and part throttle.
It was full throttle performance I was thinking of, maybe for a record or two.
____________
Candy Thunder Blue 2006 ZZR1400
Stock wheelbase
Max: 205.4 mph in 1.25 miles
2012 ZZR1400 in Golden Blazed Green
Brock CT Full System. etc
Max: 203.1 in 1 mile (so far)
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dattaway2
Novice Class
Ninja's rule
Posts: 51
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posted June 09, 2009 03:44 AM
Sorry. My bike doesn't want 0.62 volts. It wants 1.62 volts. No way is the actuator going to set the secondary tps for 0.62. Its not programmed for it. Yours might. Mine won't.
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Obba
Expert Class
Posts: 455
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posted June 09, 2009 01:46 PM
Edited By: Obba on 9 Jun 2009 21:52
FBA,
The voltage differences wouldn't be down to year of models would it?
As in the 08's and 09's the flies open sooner etc?
Dattaway, not sure if you mentioned the year model, but you need someone else with the same year of bike and see what voltage they have.
Also FBA might be right that the ingnition should be on with no running.
Just checked the vid again and you went as low as 0.58 and hit 0.65 - so 0.62 should be possible.
Personally, 0.65 or 0.62 isn't going to to be such a big difference, it ain't right but (if you should be having 0.62), a damn sight better than 1.62
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jpooch00
Novice Class
Posts: 77
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posted June 09, 2009 02:49 PM
That's damn slick!
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FastestBusaAround
Needs a life
I eat Fish...
Posts: 7889
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posted June 09, 2009 07:47 PM
@Obba - yes it is posssible and this spec is for an 06...Dattaway2 never said what year he was running...so that is possible, particularly if the spec changed over the years. The 06-07 should be the same. The change would have been (if any) starting in 08 and up.
Dattaway2 - we saw it hit .62 in your vid while you were twisting the TPS, so why can't you set it there or close to that? You may have to increase the idle speed when you set it to .62 if it's stalling. I'm guessing that you did adjust the idle speed when you moved the TPS originally, so if that's the case, you'd need to go back to the original speed to adjust the TPS. What year is your bike?
Also, another thought...which would be that because you're TPS is so close to the servo now, you might have some magnetic fields causing a voltage rise or drop, but that's more unlikely IMO. Try removing the TPS from the shaft and putting it 12" away to see if you detect a change in voltage.
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FYYFF!!!
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dattaway2
Novice Class
Ninja's rule
Posts: 51
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posted June 10, 2009 04:04 AM
Edited By: dattaway2 on 10 Jun 2009 12:08
You guys are funny.
I certainly could set it at 0.62 volts. But then the actuator goes nuts and throws a code. Mine does NOT like 0.62 volts. Nor does it like 1.55 volts or 1.70 volts. It likes 1.62 volts, exactly. It will track 1.62 volts, because that's what it expects to see at idle. Nothing else will work. If you want 0.62 volts, go ahead and do it on your bike. When I forced 0.62 volts, there was an error code and a lot of noise. That's not what I want. If you guys want it, go ahead. It won't work for me. If something says 0.62 volts is good, go for it. That was not in my case.
But the voltage is only a secondary importance. The key to get this working is to set the potentiometer/actuator/tps where it has full range. It only goes a half a turn or so. A voltmeter really isn't needed. Its the range where the servo tries to correct.
If you do this, you will see... Anyhow, its fixed. At 1.62 volts! 0.62 won't work! No! Mine is a 2008.
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FastestBusaAround
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I eat Fish...
Posts: 7889
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posted June 10, 2009 06:42 AM
It is possible that the 08's are not the same as the 06 in the voltage spec. The 06 calls for .62, but maybe the 07 requires 1.62. If anyone has a service manual for the 08, they can look at the spec and chime in here. So now, you say it's fixed, you're not getting codes and the high idle works correctly as well? I agree with the range of motion, but the start voltage if set correctly, should not limit the range to less than spec. Sounds like you hit it right!
BTW, no one is suggesting that you set it for something out of spec. So if the 08 spec calls for 1.62 or close or it works as you have set it, then it's perfect! Glad it all worked out in the end.
____________
FYYFF!!!
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dattaway2
Novice Class
Ninja's rule
Posts: 51
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posted June 10, 2009 08:05 AM
The voltage is not really a specification, its more for troubleshooting. No matter how you twist the TPS, the servo will track that voltage....but the TPS hits the limits. I can adjust it to each end and still be on 0.62 or 1.62 depending on the bike and there will be no code...until I go somewhere and the secondary throttle wants to move. It will bang the limit and it won't get the new voltage it wants.
Someone else may explain it better than I can.
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Port_Angeles_NINJA
Expert Class
Posts: 388
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posted June 10, 2009 08:16 AM
The reason for the different voltages is proably that they just added 1volt to the secondaries' target position when they wanted to uncork the 08 a little. It makes sense that they would add a round number to every position in the map, therefore starting out more open and getting to full open sooner.
I couldn't watch the video earlier in the thread so i really don't get what all this "setting it at .62 or 1.62 volts" stuff is about. As long as the full range of motion is there the ecu should take care of the rest and be happy?
____________
Red/Black 85' GPZ900
Blue 07' ZX14
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87gtNOS
Zone Head
Posts: 620
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posted June 10, 2009 02:57 PM
quote:
The reason for the different voltages is proably that they just added 1volt to the secondaries' target position when they wanted to uncork the 08 a little. It makes sense that they would add a round number to every position in the map, therefore starting out more open and getting to full open sooner.
I couldn't watch the video earlier in the thread so i really don't get what all this "setting it at .62 or 1.62 volts" stuff is about. As long as the full range of motion is there the ecu should take care of the rest and be happy?
I posted how it works.....
adding 1 volt to the TPS output would make it think the flies have started to open already!! Yet they're not!!
____________
01 ZX12R
07 ZX14 - YEAH BABY!
03 ZX9R-traded in for the 14!!! June 07!
05 636-traded in for the 9 Sept 05
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Port_Angeles_NINJA
Expert Class
Posts: 388
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posted June 10, 2009 04:25 PM
Not if the 08 bike is expecting 1.62 at idle, which is what this sounds like. I have the manual too so i agree that on your bike 2007 or my bike 2007 the reading at idle should be .62 volts.
When they wanted to open the secondaries faster for the 08 it would not make any sense to physically change part numbers or mounting orientation of the subthrottle sensor. They would have made the changes in the software that controls the stepper motor. By changing that and keeping the same hardware, the expected voltage at idle would change.
____________
Red/Black 85' GPZ900
Blue 07' ZX14
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