DaedalEVE
Parking Attendant
Posts: 19
|
posted May 14, 2009 06:51 AM
Brake Problem
Yesterday I changed out the OEM lines for some Spiegler Braided ones, with Motul RBF 600 fluid.
I spent a couple hours bleeding the lines and making sure I got the air out, but for some reason my front seems softer than the OEM lines did. Or rather, it takes a longer pull on the brake lever to really feel the resistance.
Maybe it's my imagination but I seem to remember the OEM brakes biting in right as the pressure switch for the rear lights clicks. Now it seems like I have to pull back another 1-2cm further for that to happen.
So long story short, the initial pull on the brake lever is softer than OEM, but it becomes more solid than the OEM lines were when it's pulled in all the way.
Is this normal at all?
____________
08 ZX-14 (Silver), ASV Levers, Spiegler Lines, Spiegler/LSL Sliders, Flies Out, Marble Mod, PCV, Muzzy M14/M10 Full System
  
|
dubious
Needs a life
Needs more time to ride!
Posts: 8442
|
posted May 14, 2009 07:08 AM
You still have air in the lines i think.
Did you use a mighty vac and bleed the master cylinder as well?
____________
natural selection.....
destiny will overcome intervention.
Some are not worthy of the effort.
|
DaedalEVE
Parking Attendant
Posts: 19
|
posted May 14, 2009 07:44 AM
Did it the old fashion way without vac pressure (takes a lot longer). It sounds like you're saying this isn't normal so I'm thinking I might have to go get a vac though, just to make sure.
Instead of going out and buying one (those mighty vac's are spensive) I was thinking of trying this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kgpY_oGINU8
Only I'd put a bottle of the RBF600 near the left front caliper with a line to it then pull the fluid right up through the entire system to the master cylinder. If you think that would work.
____________
08 ZX-14 (Silver), ASV Levers, Spiegler Lines, Spiegler/LSL Sliders, Flies Out, Marble Mod, PCV, Muzzy M14/M10 Full System
|
dubious
Needs a life
Needs more time to ride!
Posts: 8442
|
posted May 14, 2009 08:20 AM
Well, that guy seems pretty spacey! LOL Obviously a trekky.
Anyway, there seem to be too many varialbles for leaking air there.
Our bikes do not have the volume a car has, so a vaccum cleaner really isn't necessary.
You can buy a cheaper mighty vac at a automotive store for about $35 I would imagine.
I paid $50 Canadian dollars for mine.
I found it was next to impossible to get the air out of the brakes on the 14 the old fashoined way, and ended up using the mighty vac. Getting the air out of the master cylinder was the most difficult when I put stainless lines on mine.
Is RBF600 DOT4 compatible, is it DOT4?
I am not familiar with that product, all I know is some brake fluids are not compatible, so you will want to be sure it is!
____________
natural selection.....
destiny will overcome intervention.
Some are not worthy of the effort.
|
zxbob
Pro
Posts: 1692
|
posted May 14, 2009 08:35 AM
quote:
Getting the air out of the master cylinder was the most difficult when I put stainless lines on mine.
Lyle is rite ...... its up at the master. When I did mine I had to stuff rags under the lines
at the master and crack the bolt loose. One pump and tighten the line back up made
it perfect !
Bob
____________
Good parts aint cheap and cheap parts aint good !
|
bruno nadeau
Expert Class
Posts: 174
|
posted May 14, 2009 08:42 AM
i got the same problem in mine but i have to go for a 3 days trip with the bike.after about 2 or 3 hours of riding all went ok. i dont know what happen.
____________
bruno nadeau
|
DaedalEVE
Parking Attendant
Posts: 19
|
posted May 14, 2009 09:05 AM
 Edited By: DaedalEVE on 14 May 2009 17:06
@dubious;
Yes the RBF600 is Dot 4 (and has a higher boiling point than most 5.1's, which is why I went with it), awesome stuff.
I was just outside now trying that DIY vacuum idea and I just ended up screwing things up even worse, so I'm going to bite the bullet and just get the vac you suggested.
@zxbob;
You mean you loosened the banjo bolt? I know that's one thing I didn't do, I just used all the various bleeder valves.
At any rate I'm off to order a mityvac.
Thanks again guys, I'll let ya know how things go once I'm done.
____________
08 ZX-14 (Silver), ASV Levers, Spiegler Lines, Spiegler/LSL Sliders, Flies Out, Marble Mod, PCV, Muzzy M14/M10 Full System
|
zxbob
Pro
Posts: 1692
|
posted May 14, 2009 09:23 AM
quote:
zxbob;
You mean you loosened the banjo bolt?
Yes .... I loosened the banjo bolt .
Bob
____________
Good parts aint cheap and cheap parts aint good !
|
DaedalEVE
Parking Attendant
Posts: 19
|
posted May 14, 2009 09:35 AM
Thanks bob, I'll try that as well then.
____________
08 ZX-14 (Silver), ASV Levers, Spiegler Lines, Spiegler/LSL Sliders, Flies Out, Marble Mod, PCV, Muzzy M14/M10 Full System
|
dubious
Needs a life
Needs more time to ride!
Posts: 8442
|
posted May 14, 2009 12:12 PM
quote:
@dubious;
Yes the RBF600 is Dot 4 (and has a higher boiling point than most 5.1's, which is why I went with it), awesome stuff.
I was just outside now trying that DIY vacuum idea and I just ended up screwing things up even worse, so I'm going to bite the bullet and just get the vac you suggested.
Made by motul....Hmmm...
____________
natural selection.....
destiny will overcome intervention.
Some are not worthy of the effort.
|
DaedalEVE
Parking Attendant
Posts: 19
|
posted May 15, 2009 02:40 PM
Ok, I have the brakes done.
It seems I actually did do a fairly good job of eliminating air the first time (as loosening the banjo on the master cylinder and using the pump both make little difference). Don't get me wrong, there was a SLIGHT improvement.... but it equated to liek a couple mm of movement ont he lever... which wasn't much.
It seems I was having more of a free-play issue than anything else, but I found a way to address that as well, quite ingeniously if I do say so myself.
You know how there is a ball-jointed piston that comes out of the master cylinder and then goes into a small hole on the lever? Well I cut a piece (about 2mm long) off the end of a spare piston I had and stuck it in the hole on the lever. This forced the piston to be pushed into the master cylinder just a tad (think of it as applying pre-load to the brake fluid) and resulted in me having almost zero free-play on my brake lever.
The added force (or pre-load) on the brakes isn't enough to make the pads contact the brake rotor when the lever is released, but it is just enough so that when I apply brakes I only have to pull a few mm before light braking is applied (when I say light, I mean enough force to stop the bike if you were pushing it 3-4 mph).
Obviously this has made the brakes MUCH more sensitive, but also far more responsive.
One down side is that the brakes are actually applied a split second before the rear brake light is tripped. At speeds less than 10mph you can actually stop the bike without the brake light coming on, but over 10mph and you have to pull just far enough back on the lever to make the light trip.
This can be easily fixed by shaving down the end of the light switch about 0.5-1.0mm, which will make the brake light come on with a shorter pull on the brake lever.
Not sure if this modification to reduce free-play has been done before, but if not I'd like to call it the "suicide brake mod"... because if you grab too hard at speed, you WILL flip yourself.
I plan to do the same thing to my clutch lever some time next week, and get rid of the free-play there as well.
Heh, and the service manual says that's not adjustable. My ass it's not. ^_^
____________
08 ZX-14 (Silver), ASV Levers, Spiegler Lines, Spiegler/LSL Sliders, Flies Out, Marble Mod, PCV, Muzzy M14/M10 Full System
|
rtbain
Expert Class
old, fat and slow
Posts: 244
|
posted May 15, 2009 03:01 PM
There is another brake bleeding method. Get a large syringe from the veterinarian (50-100cc). Don’t need the needle of course.
Suck all the brake fluid from the reservoir. Dispose of in an environmentally friendly manner.
Rig a line (fuel or tygon tube works well) from the syringe to the caliper bleeder valve. Make sure you have some sort of clamp on the syringe end because you will be applying pressure.
Suck brake fluid (with the syringe) until full. Invert the syringe until the hose is pointing up. Press the syringe to expel all the air. If you have little bubble in the fluid it may mean you have a leak in your rig.
Carefully place the hose (full to the brim with brake fluid) over the caliper bleeder valve. Crack the bleeder valve and force fluid into the brake lines.
Since bubbles tend to float up this method purges the system rather well. Sometimes you have to bleed at the master cylinder to get the very last bit of air out. To do this pump the master cylinder a few times and hold. Crack the banjo bolt and let the fluid out.
Another trick is to let the system set overnight. Bubbles will tend to rise to the highest point. On pesky systems bleed at each banjo fitting.
____________
Randy
|
DaedalEVE
Parking Attendant
Posts: 19
|
posted May 16, 2009 10:48 AM
Cracking the banjo in the master did help a little.
I like the idea of the syringe though, the idea of forcing fluid up through the system seems to make a lot of sense.
____________
08 ZX-14 (Silver), ASV Levers, Spiegler Lines, Spiegler/LSL Sliders, Flies Out, Marble Mod, PCV, Muzzy M14/M10 Full System
|
|
|
|
|
HOME
NEW TOPIC