posted May 13, 2009 05:53 AM
Lithium motorcycle battery - wha'd I miss? I received this email. and I made an initial response:
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--- On Wed, 5/13/09,
To: crchickadee@yahoo.com
Date: Wednesday, May 13, 2009, 12:24 AM
Dear Jeff
Many thanks for your great interest and the recent detailed inquiry.
Firstly, we would like to take this opportunity to give a brief introduction of a professional R&D and manufacturing group companies for the best power products in China.
Our products cover lithium rechargeable batteries, including LiFePO4, LiMn2O4 and Mn/Ni/Co ternary batteries, BMS and PCM, battery chargers, controllers and inverters etc. Products widely apply to E-bikes, E-motorcycles, EVs, golf carts, forklifts, electric pallet jacks, lawn mowers, electric tools and toys, UPS, portable power supply, mining safety equipments, solar panel generator and windmill generator systems. Enclosure is our part battery models list,please have a look and choose the model you need ,then we’ll send you the specification soonly and quotation soonly.
Lithium battery is the latest rechargeble power battery with many competitive advantages compared with Lead acid batteres in the follow:
High power
Light weight, small size, high capacity, high energy density
Safe and reliable
Materials and techniques provide dual assurances to battery safety. We use safe materials of LiFePO4 and LiMn2O4 on the positive pole and aluminum foil as packing material for our high power battery.
After series of safety test on over �charge, over-discharge, short circuit, dropping, heating, crushing and nail penetration, our battery has no explosion or combustion risk, which proves that the safety performance of LiFePO4 and LiMn2O4
batteries completely meets and even exceeds the international standard.
Low self discharge rate
The battery is endurable with less than 3% self discharge rate every month.
No memory effect
Battery can be charged or discharged at anytime, and battery capacity won’t fall off even under multiple incomplete discharges.
Consistency
We control the whole production process and strictly follow the standard of ISO9001 quality control system; therefore, our batteries perform consistently on internal resistance, discharge platform and voltage holding.
Humanized design
Our light weight batteries can be freely assembled and flexibly used. Customized battery size, shape and capacity is available in accordance with customers’ demands.
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The product is environment friendly, with no leakage, no exhaust emission during production and usage.
For all the reasons above,Lithium power battery would be the replacement and be widely used battery in the following years.We’d like to take any opportunity to cooperation with you for our best quality and lowest price to leading the new power energy maketing.
Thanks again for taking time to read my letter.We look forward to receive your early news.
Yours
Kathy
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Kathy,
I would be interested in a motorcycle battery. I will send you the specifications:
Operating Voltage Range, 13-14.2 volts
*Normal operating Current, 35 amps, 30% duty cycle
*Maximum operating current/time, 100 Amps/20 seconds
*Charging/discharging Voltage 13-15 volt charge, discharge less than 13 volt
*Charging/discharging Current, 35 A at 30% duty cycle/100 A at 5% duty cycle
*Operating & Storage temperature, 150F
*battery pack size limit, 152mm x 87mm x 146mm
*end application, small engine
*If need wires(length & AWG) and connector (Spec.)? 10 AWG
The charging system can reach 35 amps and 13-14.2 volts.
posted May 13, 2009 07:04 AM
Will not work, lead acid is the only way to go in a constant charge circuit. Lithium is badass though. Oh yeah, her name is not Kathy, that is a gimmick the Chinese use to make you think you are talking to a caucasian, it's probably LinWoo or something. I hate gimmicks.
____________
'06 zx14
Muzzy M10/M14
PCIII w/ Muzzy map
Flies out K&N in!
bits n pieces...
posted May 13, 2009 07:16 AM
Edited By: Shane661 on 13 May 2009 15:43
Not Lithium Ion, but small:
quote:I picked up one of these for testing:
A Speedcell SBK battery. I already have the Odyssey 310, which is 5 lbs lighter than stock. So, let's see how light the Speedcell is:
1 lb. 7 oz...very light. Over 4.5 lbs lighter than even the Odyssey. About 9.5 lbs lighter than the stock battery.
I got the model with quick disconnects and hooked the leads to my existing stock leads for a quick test.
Test start:
Seems to start fine. My bike doesn't currently have any lighting, so that may be a factor. I'm also interested in testing to see how this battery holds up to a hot day at the track. I read somewher that these batteries might not like heat. I may relocate it to a cooler area of the bike. At this point I consider it a race-only part, until I can test it out further. Hopefully it works well, because it was not cheap.
I decided to give the battery a try because I may have to add some weight back to the front end to really get the 60 ft's down. With the BST, single rotor, lighter fender, and no headlight I have lost 20 lbs. off of the front end. The easiest way will be to add the headlights back, which are a whopping 7.5 lbs. Perhaps I can find enough over stuff to relocate to make up the difference...we'll see. If not, I will make the most of it and put some street miles on it with full lighting. I am formulating some creative lighting and ballast ideas...
I have since taken the bike for several street rides of up to 80 miles. It is working well for me, for the intended use.
posted May 13, 2009 07:38 AM
I think thats is going to be best for the track, look at the dash lights, they almost go out when the starter is cranking the motor over, you dont see this with the stock battery. Also with the stock battery you have much more reserve capacity. From what I know about the lipo, life battery types is that they are damaged if over charged and require a special charger to get very much life out of them. I have been messing with these for a few years in my R/C planes, they DO NOT LIKE HEAT AT ALL.
____________
08 ZX14, 2010 Persimmon Red bodywork.
Flies pulled, 16-42, BMC street, 8" extensions, drag shock, cut pan, Cycle Concepts Drag Pack and springs, muzzy m14 w/ oval can, lowered, Shinco usoft rear, pcv with autotune, leightweight Shori 18ah battery, throttle meister. 500lbs at bandimeres scales with half tank of juice.
posted May 13, 2009 07:44 AM
Edited By: Shane661 on 13 May 2009 15:52
I'm not sure of all the different technology...but the Speedcell is made from Lithium Ferrous cells.
I never noticed the dash lights when cranking the bike up before. Do you have a video of the stock battery starting, and the degree to which the dash lights are dimmed? You would need one in a low lighting condition to compare.
On that note, does the starting circuit cut the headlight on startup? What else does it affect?
I bought mine for mostly race use, so I am ok with that...
posted May 13, 2009 09:19 AM
Edited By: dubious on 13 May 2009 18:08
Lithium Ferrous and Lithium Ion are very different animals.
The speedcells have been approved for AMA sanctioned events, they do not have the flammable / explosive properties some of the others exhibit.
Additionally Speedcells lose less than 10% charge over a year sittiing, and actually have a deeper cycle amperage ability than the stock battery. They have zero internal resistance, and will supply full amperage until the battery reaches near zero capacity, whereas the stocker looses cranking amps with every turn of the starter.
The speedcell will go dead without much warning when it does do to these characteristics.
Luckily we have an on board volatge meter to tell you that though.
Josh, the owner of speedcells also relayed that these batteries can take a 10 amp charge extensively and, you basically can hard charge them in 10-20 minutes without problems, whereas the stock batteries must be trickle charged at 2amps for up to 24 hrs otherwise they will overheat and boil.
Yamaha and ducati have been testing with Josh thoroughly, and are useing these batteries on total loss, alternator/ generator less ignitions on the race bikes.
Its the cheapest way I know of to drop lbs off the bike in 10 minutes to boot.
What does carbon fiber cost in comparison, and how much body work would you have tpo replace to actually lose 9.5 lbs?
The only draw back is they get lazy near freezing temperatures, but I don't know many ppl who ride for performance at 35f.
So, it may not be for the commuter all season bike, or the touring guys, but they usualy bolt stuff that weighs MORE on their bikes, so its not ideal for their demographic group anyway.
____________
natural selection.....
destiny will overcome intervention.
Some are not worthy of the effort.
posted May 13, 2009 09:28 AM
Edited By: Sticks_n_Stones on 13 May 2009 17:30
Shane want to sell me your Oddysey? Could always use some weight loss that doesnt involve me stopping eating.
Dubious: I ride at and below freezing. Just have to learn to pop open your visor every now and then so that it doesnt get locked shut by the ice. Been there done that...
____________
'06 zx14
Muzzy M10/M14
PCIII w/ Muzzy map
Flies out K&N in!
bits n pieces...
posted May 13, 2009 09:34 AM
Hmm. I could also spend about $10 on a diarhettic and lose that 10 pounds. Hmmm
____________
'06 zx14
Muzzy M10/M14
PCIII w/ Muzzy map
Flies out K&N in!
bits n pieces...
quote:I'm not sure of all the different technology...but the Speedcell is made from Lithium Ferrous cells.
I never noticed the dash lights when cranking the bike up before. Do you have a video of the stock battery starting, and the degree to which the dash lights are dimmed? You would need one in a low lighting condition to compare.
On that note, does the starting circuit cut the headlight on startup? What else does it affect?
I bought mine for mostly race use, so I am ok with that...
Ill make a vid now, just for a comparo. Dont get me wrong, I think the speedcell ect are a great way to loose some weight. But I think for a everyday bike you would benefit from the durabilty and more powerfull big heavy lead acid battery. No they cant be deep cycled like the speedcell, but outside of a race only situation who would be doing that? If the everyday rider was going to run a trolling motor then yes, they would need to have a deep cyclable battery.. Yes the headlights are cut when you depress the starter button, and if you turn the key to on from off or park the headlight will remain off untill you attempt a start. Maybe you should get the bike good and hot, wait for the fan to kick on then hit the kill switch, let the fan run for a min or so with the key and lights on, then start it a few times to see how the battery preforms under pressure.. I wish OPTIMA would come out with a bike battery!
____________
08 ZX14, 2010 Persimmon Red bodywork.
Flies pulled, 16-42, BMC street, 8" extensions, drag shock, cut pan, Cycle Concepts Drag Pack and springs, muzzy m14 w/ oval can, lowered, Shinco usoft rear, pcv with autotune, leightweight Shori 18ah battery, throttle meister. 500lbs at bandimeres scales with half tank of juice.
posted May 13, 2009 10:26 AM
Edited By: Shane661 on 13 May 2009 18:27
Does seem to dim them a lot less. Whether that means it will be a problem on the street, I don't know. I'll agree, you probably can't beat the stock battery for a regular, heavy loading, street ride. But it's a trade off, like anything else. Like I say, mine is mostly for racing. But I think it will also suffice for my limited road use.
posted May 13, 2009 10:35 AM
3000psi, I don't understand your video. It seemed to start just fine...... was that the point? My bike has close to 11k now and it starts great every time.
quote:3000psi, I don't understand your video. It seemed to start just fine...... was that the point? My bike has close to 11k now and it starts great every time.
It was for shane661 to use as a comparo for his bike. Good to hear though, mine starts up great too!
____________
08 ZX14, 2010 Persimmon Red bodywork.
Flies pulled, 16-42, BMC street, 8" extensions, drag shock, cut pan, Cycle Concepts Drag Pack and springs, muzzy m14 w/ oval can, lowered, Shinco usoft rear, pcv with autotune, leightweight Shori 18ah battery, throttle meister. 500lbs at bandimeres scales with half tank of juice.
posted May 13, 2009 11:15 AM
My radar detector used to go through the startup sequence when i turned the ignition on, and then again when I started the bike, it was wired off the frt marker light.
I may be mistaken, but i think the the starter has priority and the auxillary electrical dash and lights, loose power momentarily when the starter solenoid is engauged.
____________
natural selection.....
destiny will overcome intervention.
Some are not worthy of the effort.
posted May 13, 2009 11:26 AM
carry on!
I'm running mine! ____________
natural selection.....
destiny will overcome intervention.
Some are not worthy of the effort.
posted May 14, 2009 05:09 AM
I guess if you had the money you could run 2 of these and still have great weight savings.
____________
06 Blue 14
9.008 at 153mph @ 195 suited
posted May 14, 2009 05:43 PM
How would this work or would it work in a piggy back 2nd battery? Some of my big motors need a 2nd battery tied into the primary. I have been using the Deka in a 9 series for the size and mount them in one of two places depending on the customer,or bike set up. These are track bikes only obviously. Seeing as how the 2nd battery doesn't get charged, my ? is will these batt, wire in like the 2nd lead acid to the primary. It would be a lot easier to mount one of these under the upper. ............Bill
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bill eason
posted May 14, 2009 06:08 PM
Hey Bill, you would want to run them in parallel unless you want to increase the voltage.
If you connect positive to positive and negative to negative you will keep the same voltage but increase your amperage. Then you just have to make sure your battery charger and handle the extra load.
____________
2014 ZX14 Black and Green
2008 ZX14 Black and Red SE
1986 ZX1000R Black
"Faster, faster! Faster would be better!" (Serenity)
quote:Hey Bill, you would want to run them in parallel unless you want to increase the voltage.
If you connect positive to positive and negative to negative you will keep the same voltage but increase your amperage. Then you just have to make sure your battery charger and handle the extra load.
Thanks man'' i wasn't sure if you could mix the two type batt,was my question. The way you explain it there no different in connecting them. I don't see much benefit other then size and weight then..................................Bill
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bill eason
posted May 14, 2009 07:55 PM
whoa hold on a second there fellas, those kinda batteries cannot just be wired together like lead acid batteries. They can do that at the factory, but at the factory they have the ability to perfectly match each "cell" to each other so that they all charge, discharge, and have the same exact voltage as each other cell in the group. Without that they would most likely have one that would cause the other one to overheat during charge (the one that has the highest voltage) or the one that has a bit more reserve would constantly be discharging itself to the slightly lower voltage battery. There is a reason they use microprocessor equiped state of the art chargers!
Check with the manufacturer (NOT the retailer) about running them that way. As the saying goes "guys like us only know enough to make ourselves dangerous"
____________
'06 zx14
Muzzy M10/M14
PCIII w/ Muzzy map
Flies out K&N in!
bits n pieces...
posted May 14, 2009 08:06 PM
Stix is right.
Josh does make a bigger one.
Its 6 cells instead of 4.
I will get pricing for those interested.
____________
natural selection.....
destiny will overcome intervention.
Some are not worthy of the effort.
posted May 15, 2009 05:46 AM
Yea but your still charging them either way with the bike. You dont have a microprocessor equiped state of the art charger on the bike. As long as the voltage is close to one another when wiring the packs together you shouldnt have any problems. I used to do this all the time on my RC cars with the NI-cad and Ni-mh packs. I haven't had a chance to deal with the new Li-po batterys yet. If that battery can do everything he says it can do you should be able to connect two in parallel with no problems.
____________
06 Blue 14
9.008 at 153mph @ 195 suited
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posted May 13, 2009 05:53 AM
Edited By: 
I am formulating some creative lighting and ballast ideas...
