KaiBosh
Novice Class
Posts: 66
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posted March 18, 2009 10:07 PM
Details on my scary build...
Hello all, I think this is the first post I will have made on this board even though I have lurked in the background for quite some time now. I was a member of the 'lost forum' which I am still quite disturbed about, there was a whole different type of ZX-14 rider there and we lost a lot of collective knowledge. This site is great too, just a little too focused on the quarter mile at a time philosophy for everyone...
I live in the North of the Great White North, so my riding season is a fair bit shorter than most. This means I have way too much time on my hands to tinker with my bike all winter. My canvas is a brand new '08 Midnight Sapphire Blue ZX-14. The only miles on it are the ones I put on taking it home from Vancouver, a fair jag at the end of last season.
I am doing the usual stuff to the bike, including a full TiForce system thanks to dubious and the pre-requisite PC-III to go along with it. The bike will be geared down, I have a 16T for the front and when the time comes a +2 for the back. I only have the generic full system map off the Dynojet site for the moment, that is another hurdle to overcome but can be done anytime.
The crux of my build is to turn the 14 into what the Concours update was supposed to be. This means an LSL handlebar kit to start with, and for bars I have the most extreme rise and pullback bars LSL makes on top of that. The guy on the phone had serious doubts as to whether the kit would fit with the 'superbike - highbars', the ones I got. He wished me luck, and added another 1.5 inches to one of the brake lines that come with the kit. A couple of guys on the ZX14ninja forum made these bars work, so I took the plunge.
This post is just to help anyone else out there that may be considering this route. For those that haven't seen it, here is a picture of the installed kit with the 'normal' bars...
https://www.oncycles.com/products/lsl/images/MCB00289a.jpg
I am right in the meat of installing the kit, and at every step my hair gets a little more gray. First of all, the 'instructions' that come with the LSL kit are paltry at best. Right off the bat I ripped apart the dust seal cover under the triple tree while trying to pull it off. The entire frame of the bike is somewhat pre-stressed it turns out, and just sitting there on the ground there is a fair amount of force against the top of the fork tubes. The bottom of the ignition system has a lip that catches the circular plastic seal over the bearings in the stem if you don't know this - which of course I didn't.
Not a serious problem, just the outer edge cracked and pulled off. No big deal so far. Next step was to flip the triple tree, because there are breakaway bolts holding the ignition on that have to be drilled out before you can pull it apart. Not too bad of a job, you want to drill somewhat centered through the shear domes but you don't have to go far. The kit comes with bushings and new bolts to attach the ignition to the new triple tree mount, which is the next step after that.
From there I tried to put the new triple tree on, which is where it became obvious that things just weren't going to fit. After a few pokes and prods it became obvious that I had to pull the front and rear wheels together, which I did with a ratcheting strap along the underside of the bike. Even then I had to carefully tap the LSL triple tree on with two small rubber mallets - it is a tight fit over the threaded stem. Once it was in place, I snugged down the main nut. On a side note, there is no substitute for a 36mm socket - trust me on this one.
With the triple tree in place, it was time to mock up the bars and see what I was up against. Luckily the throttle cables are not an issue - the throttle assembly neatly flips right upside-down and there is plenty of room for the cables once they are pointing downwards. The kit comes with new brake lines, I am not there yet but there shouldn't be a problem with them. They come as a 3 line package with a little setup to attach the lines to the same spot that the originals are bolted to the steering stem down the center. The hydraulic clutch line, it is a little goofy - you run it around the left stanchion the other way than stock, and the result is that it actually becomes way too long. The trick here is that you have to lay it in such a way (after changing the angle off the master) so that it wants to 'loop' against the stem when the bars go full left instead of kinking. If you look there is an odd little bracket that holds this rubber sheath and you can modify that to help you do the job. Again, not a big deal.
Now we get to the wiring and switchgear, which is where things get tricky. On the right, you have your killswitch. I should mention at this point that the two switchgear casings as well as the throttle are dimpled, which means that there are 3 holes in the clip-on bars that you will need to carefully place and drill on whatever handlebars you end up with. In the meantime though, everything is experimental so just be careful and tighten things around without breaking anything until you know where everything has to sit FOR SURE. The kill switch wiring will need to be unwrapped and unclipped where it goes around the ram air tube. You can unplug one of the wires and run it the other way around the tube, which will give you the space you need. Not too ugly here, very minor surgery. On the other side, things get a little more complicated. Both the main ignition wiring as well as the wiring coming from the signal lights and such run into the same harness which then goes into a large waterproof boot under the left ram air duct, right near where most people plunk a power commander. You will need to slice through the back end of this boot just enough to pull the one plug apart, because what you will need to do is unwrap these and separate them completely. The ignition plug and wiring will run where it does anyway, and there is plenty of room for this. The other wiring will now run the other way over the tube, but this gets tricky. The plug itself will be sitting directly on top of the ram air duct, which also happens to be where the PC-III wiring runs. I slipped a chunk of bicycle tube over the plug and ziptied it off on the ends to make it waterproof, and it just barely lays at an angle across the duct in a way that will allow the dimpled 'dash piece' to sit squarely over top of it, and still sit flush with all the screw mounts. Whew.
This brings me to a critical point that I have learned - you have to think three moves ahead at all times. Think you have clearance for this? What about when the skin is on? What about when your tank bag is on? What about at full lock when the hydraulic reservoir is touching HERE? Etc, etc. Never permanently do anything until you follow that trail through to the conclusion.
On that note, using these bars is as extreme as you can go. There is no real choices as to where to locate stuff on the bars. The bars come too long, and you need to chop exactly 3/4" off the ends. This isn't really a matter of preference, as you will see. The stock bars leave a 1/4" beveled end sticking out of the grips that the bar ends snugly fit over. Yeah, and again you will have to make up something else depending on what you want. I want a Throttlemeister but won't be able to afford one, so for now I will be plonking on the original bar ends using an insert I make up to fit inside the ends of the bars. Ascerbis makes great flanged inserts for this, this is how people put Throttlemeisters onto custom bars. The inside of the bars are a 14mm hole, you can go several different routes but again try not to do anything permanent unless you are SURE you know what you need.
With 3/4" cut off either end, bevel the next 1/4" nicely. I did it with a file and a lot of patience - this material is easy to work with but that makes for easy mistakes too. The grips will sit with that 1/4" sticking out, and then the switchgear slammed against them and into the drilled holes you measured out perfectly. As for the lever clamps, they are metal and you will need to tighten them pretty good because they are sitting right on the edge of the beginning of the corners of the bars - things are a very tight fit. You will notice with handlebars that odd things happen depending on whether your bars are up or down - there is only one place they can sit. At full lock your switchgear will come within a hair of touching the plastic around the front of the tank, and at the same time the pivots on the levers will be pushing very gently against the tips of the fairing where the windshield starts. Try to move the bar up, it doesn't work. Try to move the bars down, they hit too soon. The same thing applies to the angle of your levers - not much option there. You do have a little 'to taste' for the angles, they are not dimpled so you can adjust them slightly after the fact. On another side note, the reservoirs are swiveled around closer to you and the kit comes with new pieces to fix them to the lever clamps.
Along with this kit a set of Buell pegs is a perfect match. There is no perfect way to drop your pegs on a Kawi anyway, prepare to singe your heel on the right unless you are always on the balls of your feet or with your heels on the pegs. There will always be a price to pay. I would also like to get a Concours seat and shave the back down to keep the cowling, this would give me even more legroom. I have a set of Cortech bags I'm hoping will flip around backwards and hopefully keep clearance to the TiForce pipe - not there yet. Along with that I have a fender eliminator kit from Ted and a few other goodies to throw on, needless to say a blacked out MRA/DB windshield is a nice match with the bars.
I will post pix when it all comes together, you can all boo and hiss at how ugly it is. Honestly, everyone who has seen the bars on the bike say it looks like the way it should be, and I agree. I don't understand clip-ons, I don't see the need to be hunched over all the time and when I want to get down and dirty yes my hands and elbows will be in the wind but it works just fine on my other bike, which is a ZRX and will probably explain why I went down this road to begin with.
That's enough rambling for now, just thought I would drop this post in case anyone was wondering about going this route. I think the end results will be awesome, I am getting there slowly and still have time to get the rest of my wish-list done before the snow is gone (shorty Pazzo's, heated grips, 12v multiple access auxilary fused power source, etc).
ps. This cached google page shows a few more pix of a finished LSL kit for those who want to boo and hiss and throw popcorn some more. Not sure if this crazy link will work, but...
http://74.125.95.132/search?q=cache:VCRSco5--xgJ:www.zx14ninja.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php%3Fp%3D111511%26sid%3D8daa7ce64795a3662ffca707bc40eb45+zx14+lsl+kit&cd=4&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=ca&client=firefox-a
  
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dcjens
Pro
Wet side of Washington
Posts: 1059
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posted March 18, 2009 10:56 PM
Somebody post a time slip quick! I'm fading. I don't understand why you didn't buy a Concours? damn this was long
____________
Black 06
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KaiBosh
Novice Class
Posts: 66
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posted March 18, 2009 11:10 PM
I didn't buy a Concours because it is overweight, overpriced, and underpowered. I put 500 miles on a day when I am out riding and unlike Marylin Manson I did not have my lower ribs removed so folding myself in half is painful and silly. I don't 'get' clipons, I love the big meaty handlebars on my ZRX and I love the ultimate leverage it gives me to throw big motorcycles through twisty roads. When I want to I can put my chin on the tank just like anyone with clip-ons and I can also sit nearly bolt upright for hours on end.
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SteveWFL
Moderator
Posts: 27920
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posted March 19, 2009 05:31 AM
assist with pic mentioned in post 1:
____________
2010 Concours14
'08 R1 YAMAHA
ZX14 gone!
CBR600RR track bike
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SteveWFL
Moderator
Posts: 27920
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posted March 19, 2009 05:36 AM
quote:
I didn't buy a Concours because it is overweight, overpriced, and underpowered. I put 500 miles on a day when I am out riding and unlike Marylin Manson I did not have my lower ribs removed so folding myself in half is painful and silly. I don't 'get' clipons, I love the big meaty handlebars on my ZRX and I love the ultimate leverage it gives me to throw big motorcycles through twisty roads. When I want to I can put my chin on the tank just like anyone with clip-ons and I can also sit nearly bolt upright for hours on end.
Handlebars vs. Clipons: I suspect sitting up like that the ZX14 offers much more windblast on longer rides than the Concourse?
____________
2010 Concours14
'08 R1 YAMAHA
ZX14 gone!
CBR600RR track bike
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slates
Expert Class
Posts: 377
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posted March 19, 2009 05:37 AM
Is it just me or does the raised bars being offset by the lower top triple clamp?
The bar may pull the grips closer to the rider.
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black zx14 - Brock's Gen3 Carbon, PCIII, no secondaries, Carrozzeria wheels, Sato rearsets, Pazzo levers, GPR V4 steering damper, Puig windscreen, Tiger Racing chain guard
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Evilsports
Expert Class
Posts: 119
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posted March 19, 2009 05:52 AM
I have an '08 Ti Force full system (conical tip) map that worked great for me. It was a custom tune done on another fellows bike. Flies out. Hit me up if you need it.
kevinshelbywall@hotmail.com
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Shane661
Needs a life
Posts: 11494
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posted March 19, 2009 05:58 AM
 Edited By: Shane661 on 19 Mar 2009 13:58
I'd like to see what the triple looks like without the bars (for my race bike).
Regarding clip on's...they make sense if you go real fast a lot or race.
I think the Concours seems like a bargain if you are going to do a lot of miles. It has way more than enough power (150+ rwhp with an exhaust). Also nice storage, protection, seat comfort.etc.. For high miles the shaft drive alone is worth it's weight in gold. By the time you change the bars, add luggage, change the windscreen, etc...you are right at the price of the Concours.
That being said, good luck with your project...be sure to post pictures!
Shane
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Sticks_n_Stones
Needs a job
Posts: 3930
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posted March 19, 2009 07:18 AM
Very well written post, and good luck with the rest of your project! Nice to have some fresh air in here, and a post that isnt about speed or speed parts (or timeslips  )
I have to admit to just loving this pic of yours:
____________
'06 zx14
Muzzy M10/M14
PCIII w/ Muzzy map
Flies out K&N in!
bits n pieces...
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Acat
Novice Class
Posts: 99
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posted March 19, 2009 07:27 AM
You can gain some adjustment for the handlebars so they don't hit the tank or fairing by adding a 1/8 piece of sheetmetal about 3/8 x 5/8 to the steering stop. I used silicone to set.
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Old Guy
Expert Class
Posts: 470
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posted March 19, 2009 09:31 AM
Thx KaiBosh for the post & thx for the pix, sticks.
I've been eyeballin the LSL kit for some time now.
And now they lowered the price.
I've even cruised Bent Bike looking for T trees to do what Ratbyk did.
I have a ZG tall screen and that set up plus the buell would be puuuurfect for long rides.
It looks like mirror extenders might be called for now?
My riding buddy put a set on his 650 Ninja that look like they would fit the 14's.
Let us know if thats a issue, KaiBosh.
The Cortech bags should work with your pipes. the only time mine touched the Tsukigi was with the bags pushed back for a passenger and I overloaded them (tools)
you can adjust the crossover so the bags sit higher.
I used colored duct tape to protect the paint on a 4k mile ride. Clear shelf liner would be better looking probably.
____________
Living the good life...,
On a XZ !!!!!
Tsukigi stainless full system
pcIII w/custom map
NO freakin flies!!
GP suspension forks
Penske rear shock
Rich's custom seat
And a whole bunch of other stuff.
97 zx6r full race bike with all the
good stuff
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ratbyk
Expert Class
Posts: 179
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posted March 19, 2009 12:38 PM
KaiBosh, where are you located in BC? I'm just west of Sooke on Vancouver Is. I also have swapped over to regular handle bars (up 5" back 3") and love it for the long haul. I also went with a modded ZX14 rather than the C-14 because of the weight. Trying to back pedal in a gravel parking lot!! That extra 150lbs is noticeable.
Good report by the way. I also went through all of that trial and error, but not with the LSL Kit. I made my own. Hopefully see you on the road over the summer.
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ratbyk
Expert Class
Posts: 179
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posted March 19, 2009 12:45 PM
OK, I just google mapped Houston BC. I see you are half way between PR and PG. Yes, you are still into winter that far north!! LOL Wrench on, Another month and with luck you will be on the road. Truck on!!
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Evilsports
Expert Class
Posts: 119
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posted March 19, 2009 01:20 PM
I'm up by Dawson Creek and it's been snowing for two days here now.
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LAB3
Needs a job
Posts: 2977
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posted March 19, 2009 01:21 PM
I have the same LSL Bar Kit and I Love It, I am tall so now I can ride for several hours and my wrists and back do not hurt like the old Busa. The lower Buell pegs help too, thanks to my neighbor/friend I purchased the 14 from 3 months ago, he did most of the mod's. Moving the mirrors out for us tall riders is a idea. Maybe have a Maching shop make spacers
for the 14's mirrors with longer bolts.
kawiBosh I have a map that I got from purchaseing Shane's M14 Muzzy 421 system, He posted it a few weeks ago and it is close for a fly's out full system. Wish PM worked Fish,, :-)
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Douglas Home
Zone Head
Posts: 710
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posted March 19, 2009 01:40 PM
details on my scary build
Snowing??? come to Mackay , Australia nothing but hot days and girls in bikinis!
But you still ride more than me , I bought a new 07/14 which only has 4000 kms
on the clock and I still have to wait till November to ride on the road .
Now I have finaly learnt at 46yo to only WOT at the track . On the good side pleanty of time to do mods. Just got nitrous / Puig db / hub / speedo healer / window switch / Brocks clutch springs and a few other bits. Good luck with the build.
Doug
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Doug Mackay Australia
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KaiBosh
Novice Class
Posts: 66
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posted March 19, 2009 03:25 PM
Wow, can't believe I dragged up some people out of the woodwork that not only have the LSL kit but live right here in BC as well. Awesome to see, I thought the kit was a lot more rare than that. Good, now that you are here...
I still have a couple of nagging issues to work out, small stuff but as I have learned you just can't be too careful when it comes to planning for the future with this kit. I already regret not drilling and tapping a couple of tiny holes on the backside of the new triple tree to act as mounts for farkles, there is no way I am pulling that thing off again. I see in pictures that most guys go to an aftermarket bar end, now that I have tinkered with the stock ones I see why. There is a fairly aggressive bevel on the ends of the clip-on bars, and to emulate this I put a 1/4" bevel on the ends of the bars I have. Unfortunately the stock bar ends kind of sit on a small ring inside the bar end, and you have to be able to 'cover' the end of the bar enough to fit them properly or you will end up with a gap between there and your grip. Again, this seems like neurosis but you only get one shot at drilling the holes for your switchgear/throttle in the right place (and no, I haven't done that yet).
As for the mirrors, one thing I learned on the trip home from Vancouver is that for once the stock mirrors on this bike are amazing. Not only do they work perfectly, they also work while you are in a corner. Also, unlike most Kawi's (I had a Ninja 650 which is a perfect example) they are far enough apart that you can see something other than your own elbows. Are you guys having issues with them once you go to handlebars? I can't see the 'sitting up' position causing a problem, again during aggressive riding your body is still hunched over, it's just that your elbows are up and wrists straight while your head is down. I guess I will have to wait and see.
Finally, on a whole other topic that has caused land wars in Asia in the past, I am STILL not sure whether or not to pull my flies. I have cruised all the ZX-14 forums there are in the World on this issue, and yes the 'issue' is only for those of us with gen2 bikes. Some people swear that you still need to pull the flies. Some people swear you can't gain anything, and that they pulled their flies, had their bikes professionally step-tuned, and ended up putting the flies back in. Some people swear that to think other than the way THEY think is simply ignorance on the other person's part - that it isn't a matter of 'twitchy throttle', it is a matter of 'fine control'. Etc, etc, and I am sure that you guys have heard all the same stories that I have. The thing is, I really don't enjoy pulling all the skin off the bike and I only want to do that once. So what is it, then? Does a person with a gen2 bike gain or lose by pulling the flies? Yes, this is for the 'street'. And, continuing this raging debate from years past and forums past (R.I.P. ZX14Ninja.com) my own limited experience with the subject is that my stage 3 ZRX pulls harder down low than my '08 ZX-14 does. Can I blame flies for this? Or is it just gearing? Or is it just the deceptive smoothness of the 14 fooling me? My ZRX is plenty 'smooth' too, but it also nearly pulls your arms out of their sockets...
Of course this is a concern mainly because a person needs the right map depending on flies in or out. Or.... do they? Is it that critical? Has someone sat down and compared full system maps done by the pros on the gen2 bikes (or gen1?) for flies or no flies? And since we are on the subject of maps, I would dearly love for anyone to donate me a gen2 full system map if they can. I do plan to eventually get my bike tuned of course, but that is a pretty big deal considering I would have to take it to a place like Calgary and plan a trip around it. In the meantime, word on the street is that the Dynojet maps are quite 'tame', so if someone wants to lend me a map in the meantime (kaibosh at gmail) I would be in your debt. In return, at the least I will sit down and have a serious look between maps and see exactly what the differences are right there in that critical area where the flies (possibly) affect fuel injection.
Thanks for all the info already, looks like this is my new home forum because that other (.net) place is full of strange people or something... LOL
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Newbusa
Zone Head
Posts: 542
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posted March 19, 2009 05:21 PM
You can actually get it tuned in Prince George at the Harley dealer there.And yes they know what they are doing.
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KaiBosh
Novice Class
Posts: 66
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posted March 19, 2009 05:33 PM
I'm going to be careful what I say about the guys in PG, there were some rumours of extreme ignorance when they started tuning bikes there. Does someone there have some solid experience with sportbikes now?
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Newbusa
Zone Head
Posts: 542
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posted March 19, 2009 05:59 PM
I will be taking mine there at the end of march if i can get it together in time.
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