Rook
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posted February 15, 2009 03:13 PM
 Edited By: Rook on 15 Feb 2009 23:20
REVIEW Stock 08/flies out
Had my first ride of the year today on the 08 ZX-14 which underwent the infamous flyectomy a month ago. The bike had not been started until today when I rode. First experience of no flies is as follows. Keep in mind, It's been 2 1/2 months since I've ridden. Sure would have been nice to do a back to back comparo.
1-The engine took a few more turns to start but this was probabley due to not being started for so long. Also the tank was off for some time and it had sat nearly empty for a couple weeks. Could have had a dry fuel pump or dry line?????? It started fast as ever on a warm motor after the ride. I'll have to keep my eye on it.
2- Bike sounds slightly louder and deeper.
3-Revs a tiny bit faster, perhaps, in Neutral.
4-Idles a bit faster. Seems to me the bike idled at more like 1100rpm before flies out. Now I noticed the bike idled at about 1400rpm. Temp gauge was at 4 bars when I checked so I don't think it would have been on fast idle. More air = more fuel = faster idle? Not too big of a deal. I can adjust the idle speed back down if I want and I don't think 1400 is way fast for idle anyway.
5-Take off for normal street riding is no different than with flies in. YES - there is a bit more zip up to 3000rpm. A little more agressive rev, I guess. It is noticeable. It's not a night/day difference but you can feel it.
6-My biggest concern was that fly removal would hurt performance. I heard numerous owners state that the throttle sensitivety was deminshed to the point that they would not recomend fast cornering throttle ups/downs because the bike was too jumpy. Also heard the bike zipped ahead openning up into second and third which made riding in traffic dangerous. ALL I CAN SAY IS NOT ON MY BIKE. Throttle sensitivety has not changed at all. I'll ride twisties as always and I'm not any less likely to take the 14 to a closed course track than I was before flies out.
7-When the flies were in, I was able to feel them open at ~3000rpm. The bike would accelerate quicker and you could easily feel it if you were giving it anything more than ~1/8 throttle. With the flies gone, I still feel the increase at about the same point but it is softer. I imagine a flies out map or a tune would improve this or even elimenate it altogether. I'm excited about the improvement flies out alone provides but it is only half of the answer to a very small "problem" most people don't even worry about.
I wasn't able to do any really hard starts today. Still some salt residue on the streets and lots of potholes. It's still pretty cold, too.
I guess if you feel you need a tiny bit stronger start from idle - 3000 rpm, flies out might be worth it on your G2. It's not a big enough deal to jepordize your warranty. I doubt you will get any measurable speed gains on the street and I've heard some people who drag race put the flies back in. It is a slightly different feel though. I'd say give it a try after a year, I doubt if you will put them back. It's free and your bike will be as safe to ride in all the same conditions it was with flies in. Might as well do it. Get the pipe and PC first.
As the weather improves and I can ride more, I might have new info about this which I will post here on this topic. I have a race filter which I have yet to try. It will be interesting if the 1-2 extra hp I get from that is more noticable than flies out - LOL!
Rook
  
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Bluebyyou
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Gettin My Curve On
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posted February 15, 2009 03:34 PM
Rook, if your bike idled at 1400 rpm when warm that was too high. Service manual says 1050 to 1150 rpm for warmed engine idle is normal. Did you remapp with a PC or just pull the flies? Welcome to the flyless club although I hear it makes much less difference on 08's and up.
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2007 Bad to the Bone ZX-14 flies out, full Muzzy exhaust system, PC III, BMC race
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Shane661
Needs a life
Posts: 11494
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posted February 15, 2009 04:38 PM
Edited By: Shane661 on 16 Feb 2009 00:49
Idling at 1400 won't hurt anything, although the bike may get a little hotter.
Idle is where your lowest oil pressure is; it is common practice to increase the idle a bit so as to give an increase in the oil pressure.
Btw, the idle is very easy to adjust...and don't forget to get a good map in there!
Shane
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Bad in Black
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Posts: 348
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posted February 15, 2009 05:27 PM
Congrats D on finally traking the plunge and getting those pesky flies out of the way :thumbsup You've pretty much verified what I've read from everybody else about the 08's not getting much diff from pulling the flies. The BMC and a pc and map will def help you're bike tho.......the 08's seem to need better mapping even stock than most bikes  It seems maybe kawi struggled abit coming to grips with the new Euro-III emmissions in 08?
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Rook
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Posts: 1125
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posted February 15, 2009 06:17 PM
quote:
Rook, if your bike idled at 1400 rpm when warm that was too high. Service manual says 1050 to 1150 rpm for warmed engine idle is normal. Did you remapp with a PC or just pull the flies? Welcome to the flyless club although I hear it makes much less difference on 08's and up.
Just flies out. No remap, no PC, no other mods at all yet.
Thank you for looking up idle speed for me. I will have to check mine again a few times. When I noticed the idle on 1400, the bike had been shut down for 15 minutes after a 25 minute ride. I restarted it and noticed the tach did not drop down to 1100 even after a minute of idling in the garage after a warm start-up. Temp was at 4 bars. Could be some cold winter air/warm engine ECU confusion.or perhaps the idle speed dial got accidentally rolled up a notch - I was fidling with the bike and fairings all winter - LOL. It shouldn't be hard to just roll the idle speed back to 1100 if necessary. I believe flies are always open in Neutral so removing them would seem to have no impact on idle speed - but who knows????
Rook
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BobC
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Posts: 1736
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posted February 16, 2009 04:52 AM
Edited By: BobC on 16 Feb 2009 12:56
Can't say I've heard anyone comment that a 14 is too jumpy to corner on the throttle with flies out. I would have suggested that the original 06 model with flies in was worse, at the point where they open. With the flies out and a decent fuel map you are in control.
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Candy Thunder Blue 2006 ZZR1400
Stock wheelbase
Max: 205.4 mph in 1.25 miles
2012 ZZR1400 in Golden Blazed Green
Brock CT Full System. etc
Max: 203.1 in 1 mile (so far)
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Sticks_n_Stones
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posted February 16, 2009 07:21 AM
quote:
Can't say I've heard anyone comment that a 14 is too jumpy to corner on the throttle with flies out. I would have suggested that the original 06 model with flies in was worse, at the point where they open. With the flies out and a decent fuel map you are in control.
Totally agree, my 06 with flies in was extremely annoying trying to throttle out of a corner. Hell, even to hold a steady state in a corner was frustratingly like a turbo engine trying to spool itself up. After I pulled my flies I regained all the throttle control I was missing.
Big deal if it's touchy with all that power. It's why I bought a friggin ZX14 and not a ZX10! It's also why the big bores are meant for experienced riders who can simply and quickly adjust to things like a very responsive throttle.
____________
'06 zx14
Muzzy M10/M14
PCIII w/ Muzzy map
Flies out K&N in!
bits n pieces...
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pissear
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posted February 16, 2009 10:32 AM
Drop your idle down or you will chunk the front tire into a corner. The rear tire is going keep firing at a high idle to push the front path you leaned over is sake the front; down you go. Run 1,050 for the minimum low/mid cornering speeds.
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way too much light in the place is shoot the lights out and make it really dark inn year ear is F YO and the bike you clanked in on.
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Sticks_n_Stones
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Posts: 3930
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posted February 16, 2009 01:37 PM
Hmm. Pissear would my current 1200-1300 rpm be responsible for the shabby decel at the lower rpms? My friends bikes all seem to compression brake alot harder than my 14. Hell, its not even related to my weight- riding my friends 636 I noticed that even that little thing had more compression braking.
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'06 zx14
Muzzy M10/M14
PCIII w/ Muzzy map
Flies out K&N in!
bits n pieces...
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Shane661
Needs a life
Posts: 11494
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posted February 16, 2009 01:40 PM
quote:
Drop your idle down or you will chunk the front tire into a corner. The rear tire is going keep firing at a high idle to push the front path you leaned over is sake the front; down you go. Run 1,050 for the minimum low/mid cornering speeds.
That is ALMOST the dumbest thing I've read today.
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Sticks_n_Stones
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posted February 16, 2009 01:46 PM
F**** you shane. why you gotta chase me around the forum ehh?
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'06 zx14
Muzzy M10/M14
PCIII w/ Muzzy map
Flies out K&N in!
bits n pieces...
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Shane661
Needs a life
Posts: 11494
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posted February 16, 2009 01:51 PM
quote:
F**** you shane. why you gotta chase me around the forum ehh?
I'm not chasing you....but if I were, I could easily catch you...even on a 1000. 
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Sticks_n_Stones
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posted February 16, 2009 02:08 PM
Edited By: Sticks_n_Stones on 16 Feb 2009 22:09
Hmm... click Shanes Profile.... somewhere in Virginia.... damn thats too far to ride this weekend.... hmmm...... oh well gotta settle for a "F**** you Shane!" lol
You probably couldn't catch me Shane, no one has yet! There's a couple guys who can edge me in the corners, and I'm sure a couple that could on the straights, but none that can do both! Fingers crossed it stays that way.
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'06 zx14
Muzzy M10/M14
PCIII w/ Muzzy map
Flies out K&N in!
bits n pieces...
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pissear
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posted February 16, 2009 02:32 PM
Shane, I have to agree. Say I was riding down a canyon with an 1,100rpm idle and I was in too high a gear. Damn if the bike's front did not push me a few inches being I was in a taller gear and not a lower gear that would have had not caused that situation I put myself in not knowing the low end torque the 14 can make. But say 1,400r's is way to high. I used this as an example as one would push the front if they did not have the correct gear selected or say the wrong gear selected.
See, I figure you sorta ride like a squid is I'd take Rook over your cable pulling and liquid squeezing is how about you squeeze both cheeks together is keep the air in for about a month is help out global warming.
BTW, do you use the rear brake on your 14? So far, I've held off everything that messed with my bike is never stabbed the rears like wanna match rear discs? Now, you can rude your silly idle any way you choose. Free world is free advice is take it or leave it shove it back in my face (as if warren buffet gave you a tip) is went over your head now is don't it sound more logical you are in the correct, better be in the correct gear for normal idle. That sorta make your day? Shane on me for not following your riding skills start in with me will you? LOL
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way too much light in the place is shoot the lights out and make it really dark inn year ear is F YO and the bike you clanked in on.
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Shane661
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posted February 16, 2009 02:36 PM
If you can't control your bike because it is set to idle at 1400 rpm...you probably shouldn't be riding it.
But I will be sure to watch out if am dragged be through canyon switchback on rear brake camel toe.
Thanks.
Shane
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Sticks_n_Stones
Needs a job
Posts: 3930
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posted February 17, 2009 07:19 AM
muhahahahahha
____________
'06 zx14
Muzzy M10/M14
PCIII w/ Muzzy map
Flies out K&N in!
bits n pieces...
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KaiBosh
Novice Class
Posts: 66
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posted February 17, 2009 08:33 AM
I have nearly gone insane trying to decide whether or not to pull the flies on my '08. I have been tinkering with it this winter, put on a full TiForce and a PC-III along with a 16T front but after combing every forum out there it seems it really isn't worth pulling the flies on the Gen2 bikes. If it was, why would so many people put them back in?
I know it isn't a big deal to pull the flies, or to put them back in, my biggest issue with it is that I am going to have enough trouble just finding a map out there because I live in Northern BC - I don't need the extra headache of trying to find one for an '08 with a full system AND no-flies.
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bigdtd
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Interceptors
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posted February 17, 2009 06:41 PM
NOBODY puts them back in. trust me on this one. pullem and never look back.
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2006 Black ZX-14,6 inches over,16/42, flies out,BMC Street Filter,Brock's Street Meg,Brock's Radial Mount Strap,PClll with Race map,Dynojet LCD w/Techmount, ZX-14 fender eliminator,Pilot Power2CTs,Speedohealer,Pazzo Levers,Cox Radiator Guard, Garmin Nuvi 265WT
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FastestBusaAround
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I eat Fish...
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posted February 17, 2009 06:55 PM
You don't need a map on the 08 as the flies are mostly open all the time anyway, albeit not wide open, but not enough to run too lean anyway.
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FYYFF!!!
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Rook
Pro
Posts: 1125
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posted February 17, 2009 08:02 PM
quote:
I have nearly gone insane trying to decide whether or not to pull the flies on my '08. I have been tinkering with it this winter, put on a full TiForce and a PC-III along with a 16T front but after combing every forum out there it seems it really isn't worth pulling the flies on the Gen2 bikes. If it was, why would so many people put them back in?
Hi, KB. I haven't been here all that long but I guess long enough to say WELCOME!! Glad to hear from you again, especially because we were going over this very issue not long before go-daddy came and got us all.
From some of your posts, I know you want a whole lot more from your '08 than flies out will give. If you pull them, you will get a bit closer to what you are looking for in your bike. I think your current set up must be giving a much more noticable change than pulling your flies would. In fact, you might not even notice the diff between flies in or out whith that sprocket of yours.
I have no idea why anyone would bother to put them back in though. I assure you, the throttle does not suffer one bit. The sensitivety is exactly as it always was, very predictable and precise.
quote:
I know it isn't a big deal to pull the flies, or to put them back in, my biggest issue with it is that I am going to have enough trouble just finding a map out there because I live in Northern BC - I don't need the extra headache of trying to find one for an '08 with a full system AND no-flies.
I can't believe no one has an 08 map for flies out and full system. I think Brock does for his pipes. The change without a map is subtle enough that there might not be much more benefit to having a flies out map. A 1-10 scale is the best way I can describe the improvement: If the power bump at 3000 with flies in was a 10, it's in the neighborhood of 6.5-7 with flies out. The increase in acelleration is softer now because there is a little more power way down low. Please don't quote me on any of this yet, I really need to do some 50% - 90% throttle tests out on the highway before I can give an honest assessment. My test run was in city traffic with crappy roads so I wasn't trying to go too fast.
Put your mind at ease. I doubt you are missing out on a whole lot with flies in. Taking them out is not a horrible job, but you do need to be careful of a couple things or you could have serious problems. I don't think it's a 25 minute job at all. My opinion is that the whole tank should be emptied AMAP and removed to do the job. Many people just turn the tank around but that seems like it would kink the fuel line and you almost have the tank off at that point anyway. Putting them back in - you have to do that all over again and hope the locktight you apply never lets go. You probabley won't have much opportunity to look back in there for a long time or ever. There's no hurry to pull the flies with the setup you have going. I'd say do it some day just to get every last spec of power. If you can find a map, I'd do it now just to be done with it. I wouldn't even think about switching pipes to a brand that offers a flies out map though.
Rook
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Rook
Pro
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posted February 17, 2009 08:08 PM
quote:
You don't need a map on the 08 as the flies are mostly open all the time anyway, albeit not wide open, but not enough to run too lean anyway.
.......but if you have a flies out map, it should be introducing a little more fuel from idle - 3K than a flies in map would, shouldn't it?
Rook
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Viking1986
Parking Attendant
Posts: 2
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posted March 20, 2009 07:42 PM
I've got an 08 as well, I also drag it. This winter I did Yosh pipes, PCIII, and a K&N. I haven't mapped the PCIII yet cause it still -5C here. I'm also debating if I'm gonna pull the flies out. Anyone leave them in? I'm hearing draggers sayin they're putting them back in.
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FastestBusaAround
Needs a life
I eat Fish...
Posts: 7889
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posted March 20, 2009 07:56 PM
quote:
If you can't control your bike because it is set to idle at 1400 rpm...you probably shouldn't be riding it.
Shane
I couldn't agree more -- and ya, that thing about "chunking a tire" due to higher idle speeds, whatever that means anyway, is such a pile of immature garbage, you have to wonder if Piss-ant actually even rides a ZX14, or any bike for that matter, that is, if you can actually figure out what that shit coming off his keyboard means. 
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FYYFF!!!
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FastestBusaAround
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I eat Fish...
Posts: 7889
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posted March 20, 2009 08:00 PM
quote:
quote:
You don't need a map on the 08 as the flies are mostly open all the time anyway, albeit not wide open, but not enough to run too lean anyway.
.......but if you have a flies out map, it should be introducing a little more fuel from idle - 3K than a flies in map would, shouldn't it?
Rook
I see no difference running a zero map as opposed to running the flies out I got from Brock for my Gen 3 flies out '08. The values change somewhat, but are even leaner than stock if you look at the map. The '08 was known to run very rich on the high end from stock.
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FYYFF!!!
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Rook
Pro
Posts: 1125
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posted March 21, 2009 11:44 AM
Thanks FBA. I am thinking pretty strongly about going with Brock's A-head so I guess I'll have opportunity to try the same maps as you.
I think the fly removal on the G2 is worth doing but not nearly as much as other mods. I think it would take a really experienced rider to determine whether or not it actually improves takeoff. Seems to increase wheelie potential which is kinda fun but that's not what everyone wants.
My verdict is, if you get to the point where you can use full throttle from a takeoff, pulling the flies will give you more of what you're after. I'm sure not up to that but I like the flies out and I think everyone might as well do it if they are no longer concerned about warranty issues.
Rook
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