redmanaa1
Parking Attendant
Posts: 9
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posted December 21, 2008 05:16 PM
Sealing Airbox
Newbie here.....and about to install, among other things, an air spoiler which is supposed to add 4 - 6 HP. It requires a sealed airbox. Has anyone sealed theirs....and can offer advice on how and what to do? Thanx!
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ZX-14 Black, AP Slip ons, BMC,PC3
Novice class
  
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SteveWFL
Moderator
Posts: 27920
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posted December 21, 2008 05:36 PM
 Edited By: SteveWFL on 22 Dec 2008 01:36
quote:
It requires a sealed airbox. Has anyone sealed theirs....and can offer advice on how and what to do? Thanx!
what type bike you have? the ZX14 already has a sealed airbox. otherwise its doubtful the ram-air feature would be very efficient.
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2010 Concours14
'08 R1 YAMAHA
ZX14 gone!
CBR600RR track bike
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Shane661
Needs a life
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posted December 21, 2008 05:37 PM
Where did you get this product? Any links?
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redmanaa1
Parking Attendant
Posts: 9
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posted December 21, 2008 05:39 PM
Thanx, SteveWFL. Mine is an '07 ZX-14. The dealer said w/o a sealed airbox, the ram air would not work. Guess I was concerned when there is no need to be..... Appreciate it!
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ZX-14 Black, AP Slip ons, BMC,PC3
Novice class
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SteveWFL
Moderator
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posted December 21, 2008 05:41 PM
Edited By: SteveWFL on 22 Dec 2008 01:42
no problem, he's right but the airbox comes sealed. WELCOME to the forum!
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2010 Concours14
'08 R1 YAMAHA
ZX14 gone!
CBR600RR track bike
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Shane661
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Posts: 11494
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posted December 21, 2008 05:45 PM
Well, in all truthfulness, the airbox is not sealed particularly well from the factory. I am, however, skeptical of any claims of 4-6 hp at speed from a spoiler. The only way to test such a product would be to make speed runs in the 190+ mph range....same day, back-to-back.
That is why I would like to see some info on the product...
Shane
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redmanaa1
Parking Attendant
Posts: 9
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posted December 21, 2008 05:46 PM
Thanx, all, for the welcome!
Shane661, check out:
https://www.zx14.net/shop/index.php?osCsid=51sta12b4m0cvrnlrnsqaifkg1
Ram Air Scoop
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Novice class
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Shane661
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posted December 21, 2008 05:54 PM
I thought it might be from HPC. Seems like a simple enough product for me to test at Maxton next year. 4-6 hp should add close to 2 mph on the top end....maybe I'll give it a try.
It looks like it is a simple flap which attempts to increase the pressure right at the air intake. A pressure increase can also be tested, and my data logger has a built-in map sensor.
I think there may be a thread on sealing the 14's airbox on Psychobike, with pictures and instructions from Greg at HPC.
Shane
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redmanaa1
Parking Attendant
Posts: 9
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posted December 21, 2008 06:00 PM
That's just the bit of dogbite on the top end that I'm looking for, so I thought I'd try it as well.
I intend to go up to a 43r sprocket. Thanx for the thread lead. I'll check it out. HPC seems to be a credible company that really tests products instead of just trying to make a sell. Has that been your experience with them?
Redmanaa1
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Shane661
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posted December 21, 2008 06:06 PM
Well, I'm being honest in saying that a lot of people don't like Greg (HPC owner). In fact, a lot of users here have been banned from his forum (I was banned before I ever made a post).
But that doesn't mean that the product won't work. Just an FYI, 17/43 gearing will top you out at near 191 mph. I tested that gearing at the Maxton Mile this year and I went 190.76, hitting the rpm limiter in top gear.
Shane
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BIG BLUE_ZX14
Expert Class
Posts: 374
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posted December 21, 2008 06:13 PM
quote:
Well, in all truthfulness, the airbox is not sealed particularly well from the factory.
Shane, Are most of you guys living with a less than perfectly sealed airbox or are you fixing it? Is there something we can do to increase the effectiveness of the ram air by sealing the airbox better?
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2012 Blue on Black ZX14R with Go Faster Stuff...
2007 Blue ZX14 Gone...
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Shane661
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posted December 21, 2008 06:19 PM
I haven't done anything with mine yet. But just looking at the system you can see numerous areas that compromise an effective pressurization of the airbox.
Whether those gains would be worth it is kind of subjective. If I am stuck at 199.9 mph, and sealing the airbox gets me to 200.01...then yes it is worth it to me. For the vast majority of riders, they will not see a significant gain.
If you are not someone who rides their bike north of 180 mph, then I don't think it is worth messing with. Just my .02.
Maybe I will get a chance to make some changes to mine over the winter.
Shane
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1badzx12r
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posted December 21, 2008 06:38 PM
quote:
quote:
It requires a sealed airbox. Has anyone sealed theirs....and can offer advice on how and what to do? Thanx!
the ZX14 already has a sealed airbox. otherwise its doubtful the ram-air feature would be very efficient.
i'm not even going to get started about the SEALED airbox ...BUT NO it is not air tight most members don't even know theres a drain hole in the neck under steering stem ..
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SteveWFL
Moderator
Posts: 27920
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posted December 21, 2008 06:43 PM
quote:
quote:
quote:
It requires a sealed airbox. Has anyone sealed theirs....and can offer advice on how and what to do? Thanx!
the ZX14 already has a sealed airbox. otherwise its doubtful the ram-air feature would be very efficient.
i'm not even going to get started about the SEALED airbox ...BUT NO it is not air tight most members don't even know theres a drain hole in the neck under steering stem ..
yer right, I thought the box was "air" tight from the factory till shane posted that. it seemed pretty good when i put that brock's blockoff thing when i didn the exhaust.
I'd still have my ZX14 if it wouldn't have been for that valve cover gasket (it went in Kawi warranty for three times for shooting oil) would've been sealed better too, once it let me down on the dragon trip i suspected I had an unsealed bike.
i just didn't realize the "ram air induction" air box box is crap too 
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2010 Concours14
'08 R1 YAMAHA
ZX14 gone!
CBR600RR track bike
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smokinzx14
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Posts: 10197
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posted December 21, 2008 06:52 PM
quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
It requires a sealed airbox. Has anyone sealed theirs....and can offer advice on how and what to do? Thanx!
the ZX14 already has a sealed airbox. otherwise its doubtful the ram-air feature would be very efficient.
i'm not even going to get started about the SEALED airbox ...BUT NO it is not air tight most members don't even know theres a drain hole in the neck under steering stem ..
yer right, I thought the box was "air" tight from the factory till shane posted that. it seemed pretty good when i put that brock's blockoff thing when i didn the exhaust.
I'd still have my ZX14 if it wouldn't have been for that valve cover gasket (it went in Kawi warranty for three times for shooting oil) would've been sealed better too, once it let me down on the dragon trip i suspected I had an unsealed bike.
i just didn't realize the "ram air induction" air box box is crap too
Well steve it's not crap ....It has 3 drain holes that are needed if by some chance you get caught in the rain ...
Now if you never drive on the street i guess you can fill them in ...
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Tampa Bay , FL .. Brocks Performance Dealer ..
Gen 2 ZX14R Best ET 8.43 , Best MPH 164.95
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SteveWFL
Moderator
Posts: 27920
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posted December 21, 2008 07:12 PM
Edited By: SteveWFL on 22 Dec 2008 03:12
quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
It requires a sealed airbox. Has anyone sealed theirs....and can offer advice on how and what to do? Thanx!
the ZX14 already has a sealed airbox. otherwise its doubtful the ram-air feature would be very efficient.
i'm not even going to get started about the SEALED airbox ...BUT NO it is not air tight most members don't even know theres a drain hole in the neck under steering stem ..
yer right, I thought the box was "air" tight from the factory till shane posted that. it seemed pretty good when i put that brock's blockoff thing when i didn the exhaust.
I'd still have my ZX14 if it wouldn't have been for that valve cover gasket (it went in Kawi warranty for three times for shooting oil) would've been sealed better too, once it let me down on the dragon trip i suspected I had an unsealed bike.
i just didn't realize the "ram air induction" air box box is crap too
Well steve it's not crap ....It has 3 drain holes that are needed if by some chance you get caught in the rain ...
Now if you never drive on the street i guess you can fill them in ...
thanks, I suspected there is something more to it
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2010 Concours14
'08 R1 YAMAHA
ZX14 gone!
CBR600RR track bike
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kawboy81
Expert Class
Busa Eater
Posts: 273
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posted December 21, 2008 07:22 PM
i agree the drain holes are needed. if u get caught in weather water will go into ya airbox and it needs to escape.....
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07 LE bolt on bike
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redmanaa1
Parking Attendant
Posts: 9
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posted December 21, 2008 08:56 PM
Shane, I'm glad you gave me a heads up, and I suspect Greg doesn't care one way or the other if one likes or dislikes him if they are spending funds on his products. I've send him an email and am only concerned if, as you said, the product works or not.
You've obviously done a great deal of testing and I have much to learn from you. Is there another gearing you would suggest to max my top end speed? So far, I've topped out at between 185 - 187. Probably sufficient for most of the street riding/running I do, but if there is a way to get more economically, I'm game. Most of my track time has been at Putnam Park (ind) -- on my ZX-11 -- but my spring track plans include Mid South (Ohio) and Nashville.
R
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BobC
Pro
Posts: 1736
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posted December 22, 2008 01:24 AM
Edited By: BobC on 22 Dec 2008 09:26
I read some information about alternative velocity stacks from Big CC and it was mentioned that the stock airbox sealing was not good. Also Richard Albans of TTS, here in England, did a supercharger conversion and he spent time improving the airbox sealing too.
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Candy Thunder Blue 2006 ZZR1400
Stock wheelbase
Max: 205.4 mph in 1.25 miles
2012 ZZR1400 in Golden Blazed Green
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Shane661
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posted December 22, 2008 06:42 AM
Edited By: Shane661 on 22 Dec 2008 14:45
quote:
Shane, I'm glad you gave me a heads up, and I suspect Greg doesn't care one way or the other if one likes or dislikes him if they are spending funds on his products. I've send him an email and am only concerned if, as you said, the product works or not.
You've obviously done a great deal of testing and I have much to learn from you. Is there another gearing you would suggest to max my top end speed? So far, I've topped out at between 185 - 187. Probably sufficient for most of the street riding/running I do, but if there is a way to get more economically, I'm game. Most of my track time has been at Putnam Park (ind) -- on my ZX-11 -- but my spring track plans include Mid South (Ohio) and Nashville.
R
My first question would be how you measure your speed. Are you using a GPS?
I can tell you that my bike was lean on the top, about 13.7:1 a/f. I think it had a couple more mph in it with some mapping. I am also 6' 1" 230 lbs.suited. I will be trying 17/42 next season with a goal of 195 mph on the motor. I am making some more setup changes this winter.
I have a full exhaust, bmc race filter, and power commander. I also found that the Double Bubble windscreen seemed to help me as I have a hard time fitting below the stock screen. Also, you will find that if you can get that low, the gauges block most of your view.
In case you are interested, here is a link to my build thread. I have close to 400 pictures detailing my work and racing experiences with the bike:
http://www.bikeland.org/board/viewthread.php?FID=27&TID=40269&set_time=
It is an ongoing thread, so it gets regular updates.
Shane
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redmanaa1
Parking Attendant
Posts: 9
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posted December 22, 2008 07:02 PM
Shane, I got a response from Greg -- or someone from his shop -- today that was helpful.
I am not using a GPS, only the gauges. Can't wait to check out your link! I am 5'8", 210 suited, so getting behind my stock windscreen is no major problem. However, I will be changing to a Double Bubble screen. Will also be adding Area P slipon's, bmc filter and power commander this winter.
Again, I appreciate your responses and hope you don't mind me bouncing ideas off you.
Later,
R
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Shane661
Needs a life
Posts: 11494
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posted December 23, 2008 04:07 AM
I would suggest getting a GPS that reads to tenths. It is a better measure of your speed, by far. It will also let you set the speedohealer properly. You will need the speedohealer in order to run past the 186 mph limiter. Without the speedohealer, at 186 mph indicated, you are probably going somewhere in the low-mid 170's actual speed, with stock gearing.
I think that with the mods you have planned, 17/43 gearing would work well. You will get some increase in top end power with the slip-ons and mapping; likely enough to run 190+ mph actual, given the room.
Shane
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