NYC ZX-14
Expert Class
Manager Star Toyota Bayside,NY
Posts: 214
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posted November 05, 2008 06:09 PM
 Edited By: NYC ZX-14 on 6 Nov 2008 02:10
Poll Question:
POLL: What's your experience with flies and PCIII's
Seeing as how there is much debat on flies/no-flies. PCIII or no PCIII. Perhaps this will let us know what combo everyone is running and if they have had problems with it. For the good of all, PLEASE be honest and objective!!!
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Currently?
2007 Kawasaki ZX-14, 1999 Kawasaki VN 750, 1976 Suzuki RE-5 Rotary
http://www.goldiesplating.com
Poll Results:
 4 votes (10%)
Flies removed, NO PCIII installed, no damage
37 votes (88%)
Flies removed, PCIII installed, no damage
0 votes (0%)
Flies removed, NO PCIII installed, damage experienced
0 votes (0%)
Flies removed, PCIII installed, damage experienced
1 votes (2%)
Only PCIII installed, flies left in, no problems
0 votes (0%)
Only PCIII installed, flies left in, problems experienced
   
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BobC
Pro
Posts: 1736
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posted November 06, 2008 01:15 AM
I wasn't aware that there was much debate. It's the best value-for-money modification you could do on an 06/07 ZX-14. Just the cost of the Power Commander and an hour in the garage.
I heard of a few people experiencing difficulties removing the Secondaries, mostly fixed by using the correct tool and a few PC earthing problems too but nothing much more than that. Most owners, me included, think the bike is so much better after the modification.
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Candy Thunder Blue 2006 ZZR1400
Stock wheelbase
Max: 205.4 mph in 1.25 miles
2012 ZZR1400 in Golden Blazed Green
Brock CT Full System. etc
Max: 203.1 in 1 mile (so far)
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Bluebyyou
Expert Class
Gettin My Curve On
Posts: 276
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posted November 06, 2008 03:23 AM
quote:
I wasn't aware that there was much debate. It's the best value-for-money modification you could do on an 06/07 ZX-14. Just the cost of the Power Commander and an hour in the garage.
I heard of a few people experiencing difficulties removing the Secondaries, mostly fixed by using the correct tool and a few PC earthing problems too but nothing much more than that. Most owners, me included, think the bike is so much better after the modification.
The only PC problems I've heard of have to do with improper grounding of the unit. I can't imagine anyone complaining about fly removal. It's a simply mod that transforms the bike down low. Maybe some experienced problems from a poor map for their specific mod application? To me it's all been good, simple and cheap tweeks that worked very well.
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2007 Bad to the Bone ZX-14 flies out, full Muzzy exhaust system, PC III, BMC race
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Shane661
Needs a life
Posts: 11494
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posted November 06, 2008 05:36 AM
Edited By: Shane661 on 6 Nov 2008 14:20
Honest and objective: You Need A Power Commander
You are opening up a hole and allowing a lot more air to enter the engine. You need to add fuel to keep the engine from running lean and hot in the affected rpm range.
Whether you "see" any "damage" is irrelevant. You can also remove both mufflers and ride around and possibly not "damage" the engine. Hell, you might be able to run it without a header at all for awhile. Sure, the exhaust valves will be red hot and the life of the motor is shortened...but what the hell, you aren't keeping it forever, right?
You could go and have unprotected sex with 100 AIDS patients and not show any symptoms of the disease. So I guess you would still be healthy....just like your ZX-14 engine.
The engine WILL run lean. The engine WILL run hotter. That is NOT good for it.
What is the mystery here? All of this drama to save $265 and make your bike run hotter??
Shane
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CrotchRocket
Moderator
Bracket Racing with Betsy
Posts: 8038
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posted November 06, 2008 07:10 AM
If you get a Brocks pipe and PC, he gives you maps...
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Jason Miller StreetBike Seminars
*****DragRacers do it better, because they dont cut Corners*****
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Nelson Taylor
Zone Head
Posts: 927
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posted November 06, 2008 12:41 PM
I rode my bike on the streets for about 1300miles with flies removed and no PC3, stock pipes and I have no damage at all. The temp on the bike did build fast but I always stayed moving so avoid any potential overheating issues. The bike ran fine and was very fast.
I also race half the year with the same setup and had no problems. The bike now has 9800miles on it and with a PC3 and flies removed, still no problems. I had no intentions of running my bike forever without a PC3, just a little while.... No Problems.
Its a better bike with the PC3 though.
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Best #'s
1.54
4.03
6.02 @ 121mph
(Stock Wheelbase) 2006 ZX14
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gilberjj
Needs a job
Friend of Fast
Posts: 3196
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posted November 06, 2008 12:48 PM
this is a stupid thread. just get a pcIII
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SteveWFL
Moderator
Posts: 27920
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posted November 06, 2008 02:03 PM
Edited By: SteveWFL on 6 Nov 2008 22:08
quote:
this is a stupid thread. just get a pcIII
+1
and the repost of reposts
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2010 Concours14
'08 R1 YAMAHA
ZX14 gone!
CBR600RR track bike
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bawls
Needs a job
re-learning to ride
Posts: 2701
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posted November 06, 2008 02:27 PM
I'll tell you what. I will put my no flies no pc3 up against a no flies pc3 any day of the week. There's no noticeable change between having a pc3 and not having one. I do plan on getting one when I get an exhaust, but don't find it necessary until I do. My bike runs the same temp, gets the same mileage, and pulls like a beast. And has had no problems with 4k miles on it since pulling the flies. I will say that I am mindful of what rpm I'm running so that I don't cruise around with my bike leaning out. I'll go ahead and say right now that if I had the money for a pc3, I would most likely have one. I do good to come up with the money to go to the track and race. Single income families on E-5 pay in San diego where rent is 1800 a month sucks. Then again, some people also follow the suggested break in methods too, causing their bikes to be turds. Different strokes for different folks I guess. The way I see it, if my bike only lasts 30,000 miles the it's probably time to go bigger anyway and it gives me an excuse to. Most people will never even see 20,000 miles out of a bike anyway.
____________
Best 60ft: 1.42
Best 1/8th: 5.97
Best 1/8th MPH: 119
Brockland Police Badge # 001
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NYC ZX-14
Expert Class
Manager Star Toyota Bayside,NY
Posts: 214
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posted November 06, 2008 05:52 PM
quote:
this is a stupid thread. just get a pcIII
Stupid? I don't think so. More of a discussion don't ya think? Boards like this are designed to shoot the breeze and I apologize to the more senior members on here who already had their earfull for the flies conversation. Remember though that the membership of any site is ever changing so a fresh conversation about an old topic seems new to many of us reading and posting.
I wasn't a member here when the old "remove your flies debate" was raging so I thoroughly enjoy chatting with others about topics that are new TO ME. It's no fun just searching and reading old posts. I feel it's more enjoyable participating in a chat that is a new topic FOR ME.
Since this is a ZX-14 site... I bet everything about the bike has already been talked about at LEAST once lol. Does this mean that we should only post the current timeslips of our latest races? Or the current weather? Why not post nothing at all and shut the board down until Kawi makes a new model???
____________
Currently?
2007 Kawasaki ZX-14, 1999 Kawasaki VN 750, 1976 Suzuki RE-5 Rotary
http://www.goldiesplating.com
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SteveWFL
Moderator
Posts: 27920
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posted November 06, 2008 06:13 PM
____________
2010 Concours14
'08 R1 YAMAHA
ZX14 gone!
CBR600RR track bike
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fastestbusaaround
Needs a life
I eat Fish...
Posts: 7889
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posted November 06, 2008 06:16 PM
Bawls is probably quite right...there's no perceptible difference between a PCIII equipped bike and a non PCIII equipped one -- both with flies out. It's more about the leaning out condition which seems to appear in the 3500 range in the lower gears.
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FYYFF!!!
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BobC
Pro
Posts: 1736
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posted November 07, 2008 01:01 AM
Edited By: BobC on 7 Nov 2008 09:25
quote:
I'll tell you what. I will put my no flies no pc3 up against a no flies pc3 any day of the week. There's no noticeable change between having a pc3 and not having one........
With respect guys I beg to differ. The change (flies out) using a PC3 running the correct map is in the shape of the curve below 4,000rpm. This might not be felt when racing because you will be revving higher but it makes a big difference to everyday riding.
I had my bike custom mapped at GT Motorcycles and we found another 15 ft-lbs at 3,000rpm (it makes 80 ft-lbs at 3,000rpm now) as well as another 10bhp. The curve is now much smoother with none of the negative dip that the unmapped and non-PC3 bike will have between 3,000 and 4,000rpm. The difference on the road is quite noticeable, particularly in a roll-on, so this on it's own is a good reason to install a PC3 with a good map.
The non PC3 bike might actually feel a bit sharper as it climbs out of the hole in the power curve, a bit like a 2-stroke getting into it's power band, but the PC3 + map bike will be ahead already, the other guy will be playing catch-up.
____________
Candy Thunder Blue 2006 ZZR1400
Stock wheelbase
Max: 205.4 mph in 1.25 miles
2012 ZZR1400 in Golden Blazed Green
Brock CT Full System. etc
Max: 203.1 in 1 mile (so far)
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pissear
Expert Class
Professional Cockis Slap Peer
Posts: 309
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posted November 07, 2008 05:35 AM
Edited By: pissear on 7 Nov 2008 13:42
nYc, The first word in your sentence = YOu Rang?
Use any abstract you like thinking in your head about air speed. I am more in the basic fundamentals so you can understand the air movements. For Example, so this does not bore the others is you already know, you add nothing to the thread is cry about the same old thread is get lost ass is holes.
Now, say I have the fundamentals in my hand is I hold the loose lever arm that pulls the electric flap peers open. Gotta remember this is a two stage move on the throttle 'body.' Say you move the lever down and you hear the analog ratchet down like your zipper coming down?
You need to stop reading here because it gets worse for the ones hating the way I write it that yours really stinks is just wanted to tell you and all that high jack you off shit is see, you cock sucsker is you lost me.
Getting back, say you have that flies around your zipper and you wonder what they are for is you smell nothing. Year there for ears and ears figuring out dishit is you sneak up to that fly swat tear and really slam that lever down and that sent the analog rip pin!
You reach inside and pull her out is how long did that take? How long you gonna hold that throttle there? OK, say you lift on the throttle, reinstall your (you know) and sip her up. Fundamentally, hold the lever and pull real slow is the zipper is coming down like slower than that is make it sexy for her is you are going to pull your dick out the same speed is fast or slow is did your dick lean out = Yes or No is the fundamental question is why you are holding your dick and looking stu pit.
You need a pit help per zipper is I work for like, Zip! Shit, I'll go home, change your sheets is sniff where you've...............
Speaking about sniffing...... SAy I run down the street with my mouth open. Am I running like INN my squirrel cheeks are in a ram effect? Say, if I am in ram effect is am I....... Stu pit enough to pick and now look is you gonna tell me who the ufkfuck is stu pit? Take 3 guess is:
Eye am a cylinder shame beer is Eye:
1. Suck in more air in the ram effect. is damn right!
2. Suck in same air is no effect is tough my ass factor is more kiss it ass fast ass you can and are you kidding me? Go take a hike you, you...... SAY IT!
3. Suck my suck it up is the piston is moving up so fast is it pushes the air out of you is that force is moving so fucking fast it is less air in the cylinder and lean ass you can see it ....= Like, without thinking about speed of air is ass fast as electricity?
____________
way too much light in the place is shoot the lights out and make it really dark inn year ear is F YO and the bike you clanked in on.
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rich s
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Posts:
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posted November 07, 2008 06:48 AM
Well thanks for clearing that up.
Eye stink you knee do learning lash.
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Smooth_G
Expert Class
Posts: 228
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posted November 07, 2008 07:18 AM
i think flies out is the way to go,,i have no problems at all,,,i look at as i want to control my throttle not the ecu,,,,,
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NYC ZX-14
Expert Class
Manager Star Toyota Bayside,NY
Posts: 214
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posted November 07, 2008 07:17 PM
pissear..... where the FUCK did you learn to write like that? I got a migrane just trying to understand what the hell you are trying to say!
____________
Currently?
2007 Kawasaki ZX-14, 1999 Kawasaki VN 750, 1976 Suzuki RE-5 Rotary
http://www.goldiesplating.com
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bigdtd
Needs a job
Interceptors
Posts: 4209
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posted November 07, 2008 09:01 PM
i rode it home from my buddies shop(no computer available) with the flies out without mapping it. it had herky jerky throttle response. the bottom end was improved markedly but the bike had an unrefined feel to say the least. after mapping for flies out it was much smoother and had more power to boot. if you want to half ass the mod its your business. people that know their stuff have tested it and the facts are the facts. you could run without an air filter and it might last a while but thats not a good idea either. you could leave racing gas in your tank but that wouldn't be a good idea either. you could mount your tires with the arrows pointing the wrong way and still go fast, but it is not recommended, get the idea?
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2006 Black ZX-14,6 inches over,16/42, flies out,BMC Street Filter,Brock's Street Meg,Brock's Radial Mount Strap,PClll with Race map,Dynojet LCD w/Techmount, ZX-14 fender eliminator,Pilot Power2CTs,Speedohealer,Pazzo Levers,Cox Radiator Guard, Garmin Nuvi 265WT
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NYC ZX-14
Expert Class
Manager Star Toyota Bayside,NY
Posts: 214
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posted November 07, 2008 11:28 PM
quote:
i rode it home from my buddies shop(no computer available) with the flies out without mapping it. it had herky jerky throttle response. the bottom end was improved markedly but the bike had an unrefined feel to say the least. after mapping for flies out it was much smoother and had more power to boot. .....get the idea?
Got it.
"unrefined" is a fair, honest description. Going to write a letter to "Santa Wife" this weekend.
____________
Currently?
2007 Kawasaki ZX-14, 1999 Kawasaki VN 750, 1976 Suzuki RE-5 Rotary
http://www.goldiesplating.com
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pissear
Expert Class
Professional Cockis Slap Peer
Posts: 309
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posted November 08, 2008 03:18 AM
NYC.... My cylinder fills up when I have a turbo installed is the air:
1. Increases more air into the cylinder.
2. No change is the same air filling the cylinder once the intake valve closes.
3. Less is enters being the piston comes up and forces out the air.
1. More air
2. Same air
3. Less air
How about that? Now, take your best guess is there are 3 variables is only one is correct. Which is it? If you get confuses with this one, you are going to use the other post for your answer is not to many are taking the bait is they are not sure. What does that tell you?
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way too much light in the place is shoot the lights out and make it really dark inn year ear is F YO and the bike you clanked in on.
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SteveWFL
Moderator
Posts: 27920
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posted November 08, 2008 11:18 AM
heh!
____________
2010 Concours14
'08 R1 YAMAHA
ZX14 gone!
CBR600RR track bike
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FasterThanStink
Pro
Posts: 1218
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posted November 08, 2008 07:07 PM
If you add more air you need more fuel. This is not rocket science. Your bike does not produce power from air! It produces power from fuel!
On the flip side the only lean condition with flies out no PC3 is in the lower RPM's 3500 and under. Keep it above that and U are fine.
I prefer to have a bike that is correctly fueled at all RPM's.
____________
Speed has never killed anyone,
suddenly becoming stationary...
That's what gets you.
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pissear
Expert Class
Professional Cockis Slap Peer
Posts: 309
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posted November 09, 2008 09:53 AM
FanStinkfob (F'n Stink Key Fob, oh shut up you got it my ass is) is a short lob of yours and I quote, "A bike does not produce power from air = Fuel produces the power." If I then add more fuel is like till the plug fouls? Cause if I use more fuel, I should get more power but that if true, if I have less air and more fuel, I compact a liquid is less air. Cool is even the air warms up and less air is cool dare too.
On the flipiss of your dickissStand and I quote from the FSM, "The ECU takes the following measures to pevent engine damage...." Say the servo/actuator/lawyeragearbage in said engines is who cares where the subs or flies or air cleaner flapissser is flapping is foreskin in he air is can you explain how the bike will, "ONLY Lean" with flies out?
I need for you to both explain how the bikes'actuator no matter, even if we are talking about the air cleaner in the BooSay for argument sake; or the flies gear the subs WOT as if none were there. How did that change that dare I say, "Row Bust" change in air? Have you punched in a number as for a choose the nuimber on the list so we can narrow in on what you are saying.... I mean, this is not rocket science I know, but that is the problem, I don't know.
You are going on about more gas is I foul plugs if you say more gas. I now have less air, is that correct? I would think so is which number though so we are on the same page is pick 1 or 2 is do I half to buckle my shoe? It is not rocket science is you said that, is that right?
Now zI ask you if you are saying 3? is it has less air if it has more fuel. So, I guess my 3 does not work. Cause, I thought I'd see the piston go up an 'less' air is less fuel? Did that defeat the purpose? Say, would you agree with me that if less air is going out is less gas staying in? An engineer picket 3. Do you agree?
Reading it the way I see it, Faster? Yes or no.
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way too much light in the place is shoot the lights out and make it really dark inn year ear is F YO and the bike you clanked in on.
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NYC ZX-14
Expert Class
Manager Star Toyota Bayside,NY
Posts: 214
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posted November 09, 2008 04:59 PM
Edited By: NYC ZX-14 on 10 Nov 2008 01:01
quote:
If you add more air you need more fuel. This is not rocket science. Your bike does not produce power from air! It produces power from fuel!
On the flip side the only lean condition with flies out no PC3 is in the lower RPM's 3500 and under. Keep it above that and U are fine.
I prefer to have a bike that is correctly fueled at all RPM's.
Agreed (mostly) Power is produced from Fuel AND Air in the right mixture.  but I know what you meant.
____________
Currently?
2007 Kawasaki ZX-14, 1999 Kawasaki VN 750, 1976 Suzuki RE-5 Rotary
http://www.goldiesplating.com
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bigdtd
Needs a job
Interceptors
Posts: 4209
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posted November 09, 2008 08:14 PM
whatever pissearar is said
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2006 Black ZX-14,6 inches over,16/42, flies out,BMC Street Filter,Brock's Street Meg,Brock's Radial Mount Strap,PClll with Race map,Dynojet LCD w/Techmount, ZX-14 fender eliminator,Pilot Power2CTs,Speedohealer,Pazzo Levers,Cox Radiator Guard, Garmin Nuvi 265WT
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