messenger1
Parking Attendant
Posts: 22
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posted October 10, 2008 03:34 AM
ZX14 parts are finally all here, now I need YOUR opinions! Flies or no flies??
Hi all! 2008 ZX14, completely stock (except for the fugly rear fender extension-gone before leaving the dealership)
Heres the new parts I now have....
Hindle CF 4-1
K&N Filter
PCIII
16/42 sprockets & new chain
The question I have is this....despite my best efforts at researching this online via this forum and others, and googling it till my eyes are bleeding, there seems to be no real consensus on the absolute best mods for this bike.
I want more low end grunt. I will never be riding this at Bonneville so top speed is not important. I will however be riding it (on street tires) down to the local dragstrip from time to time, as well as continuing to ride it to and from work daily.I find the stock gearing gets the bike going ridiculously fast (read license lifting fast) without any effort, but is not a whole lot of uncontrollable-holy shit-grin type of fun.
With the above parts installed, whats the general concensus of this forum......should I pull the flies or not??????
I'd rather do it all right the first time than have to pull all the plastic off it and burn another weekends worth of riding time!
thanks all!
   
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bigdtd
Needs a job
Interceptors
Posts: 4209
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posted October 10, 2008 03:56 AM
yes pull the flies, even though the secondaries open sooner on an 08, its not as good as no flies. it will pick up the low end and make the throttle response more linear. you are in control instead of the computer in other words.
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2006 Black ZX-14,6 inches over,16/42, flies out,BMC Street Filter,Brock's Street Meg,Brock's Radial Mount Strap,PClll with Race map,Dynojet LCD w/Techmount, ZX-14 fender eliminator,Pilot Power2CTs,Speedohealer,Pazzo Levers,Cox Radiator Guard, Garmin Nuvi 265WT
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Some Guy
Expert Class
Posts: 144
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posted October 10, 2008 07:17 AM
I'm curious too. Hope to finally get mine back after being without it since the first week of August. I have a Brock SMEG being installed, but the flies, for the time being, will be left on.
I've seen a TRE with a Gear Indicator on EBay for sale. Anybody try that yet? The only negative I've heard on the TRE is you lose your gear indicator. So by adding an external, do I get the best of both worlds? I beleive the said you can bypass the TRE as well...
____________
'08 SE ZX-14
'14 1000r Ninja (wife's)
1985 900 Ninja
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gilberjj
Needs a job
Friend of Fast
Posts: 3196
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posted October 10, 2008 07:25 AM
I want to know who has advised you to keep the flies in...... Pull em!
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smokehouse4444
Zone Head
XX to ZX
Posts: 648
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posted October 10, 2008 09:22 AM
There are many out there who say to not pull the flies in the 08. Even my tuner has had conflicting reports, as well as Brock. Some say pull'em, some say there is not much difference, others say they have actually lost some oomph. ???
____________
2008 Atomic Silver ZX-14, Brock's this and that, some other stuff, 260 in full gear, powered by Cheese
2005 Ducati 999 with all the goodies
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BIKEGOD
Expert Class
I'm lost???
Posts: 345
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posted October 10, 2008 10:06 AM
I have heard not to pull em' because of bike running dangerously lean.....???
I still haven't pulled mine on my 06'
Should I ???????????????
____________
I'm a friend of your mom's,
Get in the car !
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pazx14rider
Zone Head
Posts: 953
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posted October 10, 2008 04:38 PM
Throw the TRE in the trash can pull the flies same yourself some money. And no if you have the right map for no flies you will not have a lean conditon.
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Old Guy
Expert Class
Posts: 470
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posted October 10, 2008 06:54 PM
quote:
I have heard not to pull em' because of bike running dangerously lean.....???
I still haven't pulled mine on my 06'
Should I ???????????????
I would suggest you try running without them if you got the wrench skills to pull them and put them back if you want to. ( You WONT want to)
I have a 06 without flies. Read Brocks diaries on the 06 14. Read ALL of them.
I ran without them for awhile and suffered no problems. But I wouldnt cruise at 3-4000 rpm's either. The super lean spot is a brief moment in throttle position I believe. As soon as I could I installed a pcIII and had a custom map made. Money well spent. The air/fuel ratio is in need of tuning accross the board.
You will get much smoother throttle response but if you lack fine throttle control you will get a few surprise wheelies, herk & jerk moments with hard arm yank!! Oh yea going to a 16 tooth counter sprocket is the cheap not so easy way to added low end grunt. I like that mod cuz you can actuallly deal with stop & go jams without having to slip the clutch to creep along.
____________
Living the good life...,
On a XZ !!!!!
Tsukigi stainless full system
pcIII w/custom map
NO freakin flies!!
GP suspension forks
Penske rear shock
Rich's custom seat
And a whole bunch of other stuff.
97 zx6r full race bike with all the
good stuff
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joemugg
Expert Class
Posts: 109
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posted October 10, 2008 07:40 PM
Take it from me, I had the Ivans TRE, then the ATRE you saw on eBay with the gear indicator. Flies out is a whole different animal! I still have the ATRE mounted because I like the bigger gear indicator, but pulling the flies is W-A-Y better than a TRE and a lot cheaper, too. Just get a PCIII to keep the A/F in check.
____________
'06 ZX14 blue, Muzzy M14/M10, flies out, BMC filter, PCIII, SpeedoHealer, Scott's Steering Damper, 16 tooth Vortex
'97 GSXR600 street sweeper
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messenger1
Parking Attendant
Posts: 22
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posted October 11, 2008 03:19 AM
quote:
I would suggest you try running without them if you got the wrench skills to pull them and put them back if you want to. ( You WONT want to)
I have a 06 without flies. Read Brocks diaries on the 06 14. Read ALL of them.
I ran without them for awhile and suffered no problems. But I wouldnt cruise at 3-4000 rpm's either. The super lean spot is a brief moment in throttle position I believe. As soon as I could I installed a pcIII and had a custom map made. Money well spent. The air/fuel ratio is in need of tuning accross the board.
You will get much smoother throttle response but if you lack fine throttle control you will get a few surprise wheelies, herk & jerk moments with hard arm yank!! Oh yea going to a 16 tooth counter sprocket is the cheap not so easy way to added low end grunt. I like that mod cuz you can actuallly deal with stop & go jams without having to slip the clutch to creep along.
Thanks all for the input.......this is definately the answer I wanted! I went from my S2R1000 back to the Kawasaki fold and miss that low end grunt. Riding around spinning the ZX14 at 7-8g is unrealistic and mostly illegal. Where did you go for the custom map? Did you get it dynoed and have the map written there?
Tom
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pazx14rider
Zone Head
Posts: 953
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posted October 11, 2008 04:42 AM
Messanger if you get a brocks pipe, brock will give you the appropriate map as for muzzy, or any other pipe other guys here will have to give there input on that im not farmailiar with that.
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FastestBusaAround
Needs a life
I eat Fish...
Posts: 7889
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posted October 11, 2008 05:19 AM
I owned and sold my 06 and now have the 08. Both had the flies pulled. The 08 has a different engine map and since the flies open sooner, chances are that you will not have a lean condition, even without the PCIII. A PCIII however with a good map will give you a very nice gain over the entire range, but pulling the flies on the 08 will still make a nice difference...
I also put a 4+ timing advance plate in my 08 and that made a big difference on midrange power as well. I'm running 16/43's. Beware that once you mod the sprockets and pull the flies, the front end will not stay on the ground, so if you want stupid sick low end pull...that's what you'll get with these mods. Gear changes are very fast and frequent with these mods...but OTOH, you can pull like a bat outta hell in 6th at 70 and never think of shifting to pass. My 14 pulls harder in 6th at 70 than my Z06 Vette does in 3rd. Now that's wild! 
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FYYFF!!!
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ave8er
Novice Class
Posts: 98
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posted October 12, 2008 04:17 PM
I have an '07 with the flies pulled and my son has '08 with flies in. Both bike have a full system mine is a muzzy and his is a Yosh. His bike runs so much better and smoother than mine with the flies in that I want to put mine back in. My bike does not run well below 3.5K when adding just a little throtle. His bike is so much smoother. I would try it with the flies in
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bigdtd
Needs a job
Interceptors
Posts: 4209
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posted October 12, 2008 04:20 PM
its the mapping
____________
2006 Black ZX-14,6 inches over,16/42, flies out,BMC Street Filter,Brock's Street Meg,Brock's Radial Mount Strap,PClll with Race map,Dynojet LCD w/Techmount, ZX-14 fender eliminator,Pilot Power2CTs,Speedohealer,Pazzo Levers,Cox Radiator Guard, Garmin Nuvi 265WT
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dcjens
Pro
Wet side of Washington
Posts: 1059
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posted October 12, 2008 04:29 PM
I bent my flies in half in the vise so id never get that crazy notion
____________
Black 06
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MJ
Zone Head
Posts: 560
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posted October 12, 2008 05:20 PM
quote:
its the mapping
Yep all mapping. A well mapped flies out 14 is just as smooth as a stocker in every way, it just has boatloads more power where you need it 
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Smooth_G
Expert Class
Posts: 228
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posted October 12, 2008 05:27 PM
i have a silver 08,,flies pulled,,runs great with pc3, 179hp 105lbs torque,,to me its the difference between me controling the throttle or the ecu
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AZ ZX14
Expert Class
Posts: 132
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posted October 12, 2008 06:22 PM
quote:
i have a silver 08,,flies pulled,,runs great with pc3, 179hp 105lbs torque,,to me its the difference between me controling the throttle or the ecu
Smooth. Are you running a custom map? I also have an 08 but was really unhappy when trying the DJ and Muzzy flies out map. I ended up reinstalling them because my bike ran poorly in the 0 to 4000 rpm range. Anyone willing to share a better map that will work with a full Muzzy exhaust w/ K & N air filter?
I'm willing to pull the flies and try again.
____________
2008 ZX-14
Flies out
PCIII / USB
Brocks Alien head
Puig DB Screen
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gilberjj
Needs a job
Friend of Fast
Posts: 3196
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posted October 13, 2008 12:23 AM
with a good map, it should run as good as stock with a lot more low end. you bike running poorly is not because the flies aren't in, it is because the computer is not tuned for it. get a good tune!
also, brock retracted his statements about leaving the flies in. after having them out for a while he agreed with EVERYONE saying that kawi should never have put them in in the first place.
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Superman T
Pro
Posts: 1831
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posted October 13, 2008 06:52 AM
Messenger1-I would find the nearest reputable tuner and acquire a custom map for your setup. In adition, because of your gearing alterations, you may want to invest in a Speedo Healer. I have'nt changed my sprockets due to me not having a Speedo Healer to suppliment ratio differences. Good luck moving forward, ride safe!!
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Ehren
Novice Class
Carbon KING
Posts: 40
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posted October 13, 2008 12:02 PM
pull the flies
I have full muzzy exhaust, extended swing arm, pcIII, secondary flies out and my bike runs like a raped ape i walked away from a busa yesturday me and my buddy raced and i beat him where before i pulled them we were even.
It is such a easy mod the PCIII has actual maps with the flies out. and it only took me about an hour to take them out. You just have to be careful because the screws that hold them on are very easy to strip the heads on.
But the throttle response i got from it is amazing it feels so much faster just because those are out.
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zx trouble
Novice Class
Posts: 56
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posted October 13, 2008 01:03 PM
i have an 06 zx14 street meg n pc no flies straight from brocks running 89 pump gas. lowered straped n extended went 9.14 foot shifting trying air shifting now best so far 9.12. brocks is the way to go
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dubious
Needs a life
Needs more time to ride!
Posts: 8442
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posted October 13, 2008 01:38 PM
Besides the fact I am a power monger, the linear throttle response at all RPM is much better with flies out and good map. IMO.
The hit or transition at 6-7K rpm with flies in actually make the bike less predicatble in my experience.
I hated mine with flies in.... leaned way over in a corner in 2nd or 3rd gear trying to keep it above 7000 rpm is crazy, (below 7000 was boring) and riding a flies in bike through 6-7K rpm leaned over is dangerous as the throttle doesn't control the power at that rpm... the computer does.
____________
natural selection.....
destiny will overcome intervention.
Some are not worthy of the effort.
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NYC ZX-14
Expert Class
Manager Star Toyota Bayside,NY
Posts: 214
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posted October 13, 2008 07:57 PM
quote:
Besides the fact I am a power monger, the linear throttle response at all RPM is much better with flies out and good map. IMO.
The hit or transition at 6-7K rpm with flies in actually make the bike less predicatble in my experience.
I hated mine with flies in.... leaned way over in a corner in 2nd or 3rd gear trying to keep it above 7000 rpm is crazy, (below 7000 was boring) and riding a flies in bike through 6-7K rpm leaned over is dangerous as the throttle doesn't control the power at that rpm... the computer does.
+1!!!
That's BEST argument for removing the flies! On a machine like the ZX-14,a computer (solenoid controlled flies), should NEVER be allowed to effect a change to throttle response or amount. That is plain DANGEROUS as you say.The rider should always be the only controller.
____________
Currently?
2007 Kawasaki ZX-14, 1999 Kawasaki VN 750, 1976 Suzuki RE-5 Rotary
http://www.goldiesplating.com
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Sticks_n_Stones
Needs a job
Posts: 3930
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posted October 14, 2008 11:39 AM
Someguy: bring your bike over to my neck of the woods and I'll trade off with you. That way you can see first hand the difference flies in and out makes. You still got my number? I moved though, now live a bit closer: city of Snohomish.
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'06 zx14
Muzzy M10/M14
PCIII w/ Muzzy map
Flies out K&N in!
bits n pieces...
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