Shane661
Needs a life
Posts: 11494
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posted January 05, 2010 11:10 AM
 Edited By: Shane661 on 5 Jan 2010 19:59
It's pretty quiet here. I'm waiting for my new exhaust to arrive, and I'm pretty much out of money. 
This past weekend there was an LSR-type event in FL. As you guys might have read a couple of pages back, I just got a new engine put in my 12R. Well, this bike has an engine very similar to mine (built by the same person):
The bike is 1287cc, with porting, cams and some other tricks. 211 mph on GPS in the standing mile. By comparison, my 14 went 193 mph in the summer heat. Even figuring in a couple of extra mph in cool air, my 14 is definitely no match right now. Perhaps with some spray I will get close to that # this year??
If we could get some interest here, I might come down to FL for the next event. It is supposed to be in March.
Here is the website with event info:
http://www.milemarker-1.com
Some more discussion in the dragbike zone:
http://www.bikeland.org/board/viewthread.php?FID=13&TID=52119&set_time=
Smokin, Nooby, anyone else interested?
Shane
  
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laverda1200
Parking Attendant
Posts: 23
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posted January 05, 2010 12:09 PM
Hi Shane
I just finished reading the entire thread. Wow! Good on you for documenting your build so thoroughly, lots of useful info, and a fascinating insight into your build process..
One question. You mentioned you were fitting up a Cycle Logics lock up clutch, then the lock up vanished from any further clutch photos or mention. Did you ever run the bike with the Cycle Logic lock up clutch, and what results did you experience?
My interest is top end mph w thout clutch slip to run on the salt at Bonneville summer 2010. I already have the lock up installed, but it is cold and snowy here in western Canada, will be months before I can test ride, which is a good thing given the current state of dis-assembly of the bike during prep, presently a large pile of dis-associated parts......
Thanks.
Paul
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laverda1200
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Shane661
Needs a life
Posts: 11494
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posted January 05, 2010 12:13 PM
Edited By: Shane661 on 5 Jan 2010 20:14
I still have the lock-up, but have not run it yet. Every time I got so close to the 8's, I didn't want to change the clutch set up. Stock springs with 5 Brock's spacers is what I ran, even at Loring on the 205+ mph passes.
This season the lock up will get installed as I am going to run my nitrous sytem.
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Shane661
Needs a life
Posts: 11494
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posted January 06, 2010 04:25 PM
Edited By: Shane661 on 7 Jan 2010 00:35
My new exhaust came today. It's the Brock's TiWinder, in the blue anode finish:
First impressions are that this is a very nice exhaust! I ordered it with the race baffle, which is pretty much straight-through. I will weigh it and post my other various other "impressions" very soon. I've been working 12 hour shifts for 13 out of 14 days, and I'm a little too tired to do the work tonight.
Shane
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Wheelie
Needs a life
Old Man
Posts: 6902
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posted January 06, 2010 04:31 PM
I like that
wee
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Bawls
Needs a job
re-learning to ride
Posts: 2701
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posted January 06, 2010 04:52 PM
Now you can really get low 
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Best 60ft: 1.42
Best 1/8th: 5.97
Best 1/8th MPH: 119
Brockland Police Badge # 001
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Bawls
Needs a job
re-learning to ride
Posts: 2701
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posted January 06, 2010 04:53 PM
Now you can really get low
____________
Best 60ft: 1.42
Best 1/8th: 5.97
Best 1/8th MPH: 119
Brockland Police Badge # 001
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Shane661
Needs a life
Posts: 11494
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posted January 06, 2010 04:54 PM
quote:
Now you can really get low
That's the plan!! Now I just have to keep working that overtime in order to afford the oil pan.
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Shane661
Needs a life
Posts: 11494
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posted January 06, 2010 05:15 PM
Edited By: Shane661 on 7 Jan 2010 01:17
Another item that I stumbled across was a damaged cylinder head:
This head is not repairable (destroyed cam cap). But it came complete for the same cost that most people are asking for just the cams alone. I figured that it would be a good way for me to learn about the valvetrain, cam chain tensioner setup, and design of the head.
Shane
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Shane661
Needs a life
Posts: 11494
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posted January 06, 2010 05:23 PM
Edited By: Shane661 on 7 Jan 2010 01:24
I'm not sure if this kind of stuff interests you guys, but sometime ago I did some comparisons between the 12R and 14 stock pistons:
------------------------------------------------------------------------
I was curious as to the difference in design between the oem pistons in the 12R vs. those in the 14. I had the set from my 02 12R here, and I just picked up a used set of 14 slugs.
In pictures below, the 12R part is on the left, 14 on the right:
Here you can see that the 12R pistons, despite being a smaller bore (83 vs. 84mm), are heavier. Pistons without wrist pins:
12R:
14:
The 12R also has longer wrist pins, which are 7G heavier each:
Another interesting difference that I noticed is the concave crown on the ZX-14 part:
Made a trip to the machine shop today:
14 piston above, 12R below:
12R piston thickness, at center:
14 piston thickness, at center:
12R piston above, 14 piston below:
The machinist stated that the 14 piston did appear forged, and the 12R definitely cast. He also said that it was much harder to cut through the 12R piston; he theorized that it might be more brittle. None of this is gospel, just his opinion.
Anyway, perhaps with these additonal photos we can determine a little more about the 14 piston and it's suitability for nitrous usage, as compared to the 12R part.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Anway, just thought I'd post it up here...might be of interest to someone.
Shane
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Shane661
Needs a life
Posts: 11494
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posted January 06, 2010 05:31 PM
Edited By: Shane661 on 7 Jan 2010 01:35
Some photos of the ZX-14 piston and rod assemblies:
----------------------------------------------
I just picked up a spare set of 14 rods. I don't see any sort of oiling passage in the rod that would supply oil to the wrist pin:
So, it made me curious. How are the wrist pins lubricated? Do they just get their oil from the oil "sprayers"?
----
They only beaded 1 set, and I really didn't plan to use the pistons anway:
I got the whole set for $75. I figured that would be a very cheap way to learn something about removing and installing rings, pins, bearings,etc...without having to tear apart my motor to do it. I'll probably also end up with some spares. 
----
Ok, so I decided to take one of the assemblies apart:
This one was not a problem at all. I used a small jewelers screwdriver to pop the wrist pin clips out, and the pins came out easily. Ditto with the bearings, very simple.
However, of the 4 assemblies, the glass-beaded one is problematic. The pin is seized and will not move laterally. This was the first one that I tried, and I was pretty rough with it (knowing the piston is trash anyway). I could not get the clips out:
Hideous, I know....but that's why I bought this practice set. Is it normal for the pins to be seized like this? How do you remove them when they are as such? The service manual calls for a piston pin puller tool...but should you really need one?
And finally, how do I remove the rod bolts?
-----------------------------------
For those curious, the wrist pins get oiled simply through oil splashing around in the engine. One of the above assemblies was glass beaded, which ruined the piston and made the pin near impossible to remove.
I was also told not to remove the rod bolts, so as not to affect the concentricity of the rod. However, I have heard some conflicting information in that regard.
Nonetheless, some pictures to examine, at least. I am just trying to learn what I can about this engine...without tearing my motor apart.
Shane
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icarus
Expert Class
Posts: 344
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posted January 06, 2010 07:57 PM
Hey Shane!!! I hope I caught you before you started putting on your exhaust. I just put the
exact same system on my bike and wanted to give you some advice.
First, take out the radiator. It is a very tight fit and I ended up putting a hole in mine when
the spring installation tool slid off the spring.
Before you put the Permatex on, tighten one nut on each flange, remove the header tubes
and finish tightening the flanges without the tubes in place. The nuts on the 2,3 flanges
are a pain to get to with the tubes in place.
And just to brag a little, next Tuesday I'm taking the 6 mile journey to Beavercreek, Ohio
to have it customed tuned by Brock.
And lastly, the pipe sounds badass. Especially inside the garage.
Good luck!!!
Later...
____________
8.820 @ 161.05
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Shane661
Needs a life
Posts: 11494
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posted January 07, 2010 04:35 AM
Thanks for the suggestions.
Typically I install all of these systems "dry". No Permatex at all. I haven't had any leaks. I personally feel that the rtv shouldn't be needed, especially at the cylinder head. The Permatex is rated for something like 750 degrees, and the exhaust gas temps are around 1300 degrees.
When I installed my CT spigots, I snugged them down a little first. Then I slid in a header pipe to line the two sections of the spigot up. Then I tightened them down without the exhaust in place.
Shane
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gilberjj
Needs a job
Friend of Fast
Posts: 3196
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posted January 07, 2010 06:02 PM
I've been gone for a long time. Looks like you've been busy. I like blue!
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laverda1200
Parking Attendant
Posts: 23
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posted January 07, 2010 07:09 PM
Hi Shane
no, normally you don't need a pin puller.
you wioll need somehting with a little more hosrepower than jewelers screwdriver to get tha pin clip out. As you don't care about the piston, you might want to drive the piston ppin back in just a bit, to get a bit of clearance on the clip.
to get th epin itself out, you can make a pin puller with a big C clamp. On the fixed end use alarge socket (big enough to allow the pin to enter it), on the screw end, use a smaller socket to engage the pin, then just thread the clamp in.
alternatively, if you REALLY don't care about the piston and are trying to salvage the rod, support one side of the piston on a block of wood with a larger than piston pin sized hole in it, and drive the pin out with a large hammer..... been there, done that, more than once.
I thought I was one of the very few that bandsawed parts in half to check construction and thicknesses, good on you, nice to see that level of commitment.... My last experiment was sectioning a rather rare Laverda three cylinder head so I could determine how much material was available for porting of the head on one of my race motors.......
Paul
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laverda1200
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KZScott
Needs a life
high on speed
Posts: 7235
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posted January 07, 2010 07:35 PM
quote:
I was also told not to remove the rod bolts, so as not to affect the concentricity of the rod. However, I have heard some conflicting information in that regard.
dont take the bolts out unless you are going to replace them. which is a very good idea. problem is cap shift(can make tight and loose spots on the bearing) have a machine shop check to see if any shift occured. if so have them sized and problem solved
____________
01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
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ZuminaZX
Expert Class
Posts: 128
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posted January 09, 2010 03:56 PM
Shane, you don't do much of the Devil's work, do you?
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Shane661
Needs a life
Posts: 11494
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posted January 09, 2010 04:03 PM
quote:
Shane, you don't do much of the Devil's work, do you?
Ummm...what does that mean??
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dakota9498
Pro
Posts: 1181
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posted January 09, 2010 05:36 PM
Idle hands are the devil's playground....maybe.
____________
2008 ZX14
Never argue with a fool, onlookers may not be able to tell the difference. ~Mark Twain
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Shane661
Needs a life
Posts: 11494
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posted January 09, 2010 05:38 PM
Edited By: Shane661 on 10 Jan 2010 01:40
Ahhh...makes sense now! I must have inhaled too many diesel fumes in the garage today.
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ZuminaZX
Expert Class
Posts: 128
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posted January 09, 2010 07:53 PM
"Idle hands do the devil's work"
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KZScott
Needs a life
high on speed
Posts: 7235
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posted January 10, 2010 08:50 PM
Shane, have any specs on the diameter of the tubing used on the ti winder? Im interested in before and after the tapered section, the "2" section, and the collector before the meg
____________
01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
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eklipse636
Needs a life
ZX-14
Posts: 6046
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posted January 11, 2010 04:33 AM
Tiwinder looks good!!
____________
Best: 60ft 1.351 1/8 5.68 mph 123.98 1/4
8.89 mph 151.32
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Shane661
Needs a life
Posts: 11494
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posted January 11, 2010 04:57 AM
quote:
Shane, have any specs on the diameter of the tubing used on the ti winder? Im interested in before and after the tapered section, the "2" section, and the collector before the meg
I haven't measured it yet. If it is equal in size to the CT, the tubing is a little larger than 2.25" at the collector. It is metric tubing.
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LAB3
Needs a job
Posts: 2977
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posted January 11, 2010 05:18 AM
Good Looking exhaust. I was wondering "why" you sold the other Brocks system.
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