KawaBonzai
Zone Head
Leader of the Back.
Posts: 537
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posted May 16, 2008 07:29 PM
Street .vs. Quarter
Yo!
so by now everyone has seen every "cookie cutter" build for the Zx-14. There are subtle variances between the builds, but most involve Pipes, flies, & maps.
My goal with my ZX-14 is not for the quarter mile strip. Most all of the time where I need to pour the power on is on the Street doing roll-ons and rarely anything exceeding 100mph.
I'm pretty sure that I'd be happy with a strip setup because anything that can run 9's is plenty fast.
But what roll-on specific mods are there givin that roll-ons are usually 2nd gear lunges and not standing starts?
Take for example the Brocks / muzzy battle. I've heard that Brocks smeg is a great pipe for top end, however the new Muzzy M14 makes more HP mid range? So I'd consider a Muzzy M14 for roll-on challenges over the Brocks.
That kinda logic is what I'd like to explore.
Any feedback is appreciated, I've got 2k in my pocket burning a hole.
... Bonzai
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PC-III w/USB, Muzzys M14 + Carbon Oval + M10, BMC Race Filter, Flies Out, Buell Pegs, Heli Risers
www.TucsonSportRiders.com - Tucson's Premier SportRider Community
   
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qwick
Expert Class
Posts: 413
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posted May 16, 2008 08:16 PM
Where did you get your info on the M14 having more mid-range HP than the Smeg? I'm running the Short Meg and can tell you that it's not missing anything from top to bottom.
Swap to a set of 16/43 gears, pull the flies, bolt on a Short Meg with the street map, lower it a bit and you better add at least 4 inches to the wheelbase... You'll be Very Happy with the money spent!!!
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BlackMagic14
Needs a job
Posts: 2058
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posted May 16, 2008 09:15 PM
I have had both on the same dyno same day on my bike and the M-14 made more power EVERYWHERE. also got me 1-2 MPH more in the quarter on a consistent basis. But I think the biggest thing that is gonna make a difference in roll ons is gearing...
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KawaBonzai
Zone Head
Leader of the Back.
Posts: 537
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posted May 16, 2008 09:26 PM
quote:
Where did you get your info on the M14 having more mid-range HP than the Smeg? I'm running the Short Meg and can tell you that it's not missing anything from top to bottom.
Rob Muzzy himself stated ...
quote:
I don't know where you guy's find these numbers. I have not been able to duplicate your findings. The testing we have done between the MUZZY full system and Brock's GEN3 do not show the results you all claim. The dyno numbers we get show the GEN3 pipe down 41/2 hp up to 7,000 then the same till 9500, then the GEN 3 is up 11/2 at 10,000. We could have done the same thing however we believe the most power under the curve is best. I will put out this challenge. I will personally give $1,000.00 to anybody that shows me that the Brock/Hindle ZX-14 pipe makes 8 more HP than a MUZZY ZX-14 pipe.
http://www.bikeland.org/board/viewthread.php?FID=27&TID=26853&pagenumber=1
... bonzai
____________
PC-III w/USB, Muzzys M14 + Carbon Oval + M10, BMC Race Filter, Flies Out, Buell Pegs, Heli Risers
www.TucsonSportRiders.com - Tucson's Premier SportRider Community
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KawaBonzai
Zone Head
Leader of the Back.
Posts: 537
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posted May 16, 2008 09:28 PM
Yo.
does lowering hurt "sportability" in the twisty's too much? I suck in the corners so if it's not a big loss then it's no big deal.
... Bonzai
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PC-III w/USB, Muzzys M14 + Carbon Oval + M10, BMC Race Filter, Flies Out, Buell Pegs, Heli Risers
www.TucsonSportRiders.com - Tucson's Premier SportRider Community
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zx14mike
Zone Head
Posts: 891
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posted May 16, 2008 10:06 PM
quote:
Yo.
does lowering hurt "sportability" in the twisty's too much? I suck in the corners so if it's not a big loss then it's no big deal.
... Bonzai
"
It will make a noticable difference but it wont be terrible unless you are the road racing track type of guy.
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zx14mike
Zone Head
Posts: 891
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posted May 16, 2008 10:17 PM
If you are after roll on power to 100 mph I agree with BM that gearing is the most bang for the buck, 16/43 would be great if you wanna keep a stock chain............if your considering lowering and stretching it, I would go 17/45, 17/46, 17/47 or 16/44.
Brock makes a great pipe, its more of a top end high horsepower pipe............if your after rollon power you need power under the curve in the midrange, i'd probably go with Tsukigi or the M14, if i was you.
If you are more into rollons instead of launching from a standing start then stretching it isnt as critical...........but gearing should be your first step
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lietoome
Needs a job
Posts: 2033
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posted May 16, 2008 10:43 PM
I wouldn't lower the 14 for the street. Depending on your weight, you might want to upgrade the suspension. Respring the rear with a beefier spring depending on your weight. If you're a lightweight guy that sucks at cornering, just dial in the stock suspension.
$2k? There are a lot of options.
Here's what I'd buy...
sprockets $70
BMC filters $70
front brake lines $90
muzzy ignition advance +4 degrees $90
PowerCommander $300
Speedohealer $110
full exhaust--- Brocks/Muzzy/ or bang for the buck Tsukigi $800. Very well made exhaust.
(steering dampner) $400
Rear spring $100
$2030 to $2300 (plus shipping)depending on the exhaust you choose.
If it were me, I'd go this route. Borrow/create a map until you can get it dyno-tuned.
There are several sites(including here) where folks are selling sprockets, power commanders, exhausts, and other parts for a LOT less than buying new. I built up my zx12r with used parts, and you couldn't tell the difference. I would have done the same for the 14, but there was just not a lot of used parts on the market for the 14.
I know the exhaust is an opinion that different folks share different opinions on, but I installed the Tsukigi on zx14mike's bike and I was jealous. Yes I've got a beautiful Brock gen3/SMEG conversion, but Mike saved a lot of 'mod' money. I was really suprised at how well it fit, and the quality is first rate. So, the ball is in your court, save money where you can and ultimately, get it dynoed by someone you trust. Skip the dampner if you get a muzzy or brock. You will be happy with any combination.
Enjoy and ride safe.
Jeff
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lietoome
Needs a job
Posts: 2033
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posted May 16, 2008 10:52 PM
http://www.bikeland.org/board/viewthread.php?FID=3&TID=39126&set_time=
Prime example, $165 for a power commander.
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BlackMagic14
Needs a job
Posts: 2058
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posted May 17, 2008 06:46 AM
quote:
quote:
Where did you get your info on the M14 having more mid-range HP than the Smeg? I'm running the Short Meg and can tell you that it's not missing anything from top to bottom.
Rob Muzzy himself stated ...
quote:
I don't know where you guy's find these numbers. I have not been able to duplicate your findings. The testing we have done between the MUZZY full system and Brock's GEN3 do not show the results you all claim. The dyno numbers we get show the GEN3 pipe down 41/2 hp up to 7,000 then the same till 9500, then the GEN 3 is up 11/2 at 10,000. We could have done the same thing however we believe the most power under the curve is best. I will put out this challenge. I will personally give $1,000.00 to anybody that shows me that the Brock/Hindle ZX-14 pipe makes 8 more HP than a MUZZY ZX-14 pipe.
http://www.bikeland.org/board/viewthread.php?FID=27&TID=26853&pagenumber=1
... bonzai
I think that quote is referring to the original design Muzzy pipe NOT the new M-14. just FYI
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bigdtd
Needs a job
Interceptors
Posts: 4209
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posted May 17, 2008 07:05 AM
i really haven't seen any info on the new m-14, but i'm always interested in a better way to go. the fastest bikes around these parts run the brock's smeg but that doesn't mean everything. i'm sure if muzzy sent smokin a m-14 he would give a subjective evaluation, and if it were favorable he would sell a lot more pipes, not that he probably needs that. i have not seen or heard of any zx-14's basically stock with a pipe that will run with smokin , except nightmare is in the ballpark and both run the smeg. these are track numbers not dyno. brock has some dyno maps that are leaner that put out big dyno numbers, but would be slower. do you care more about dyno or actual performance with the ram air kickin?
____________
2006 Black ZX-14,6 inches over,16/42, flies out,BMC Street Filter,Brock's Street Meg,Brock's Radial Mount Strap,PClll with Race map,Dynojet LCD w/Techmount, ZX-14 fender eliminator,Pilot Power2CTs,Speedohealer,Pazzo Levers,Cox Radiator Guard, Garmin Nuvi 265WT
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NOX
Needs a job
PMRA / TMRC Super Street 4022
Posts: 3745
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posted May 17, 2008 07:40 AM
In a drag race set up, you dont use much under the power curve except the very HIGH rpm, if the clutch is right......, it should never drop down after the hammer is dropped...........
HP IS HP.......
putting it down, and doing it right is two different things.........
Black magic, what were the DA, humidity, temp, and barometer between those days at the track.........
on these bikes with a BP sensor, if you get a day with 29.95 BP, and all else being good as well, its gonna ROOOLLLLL..........,
go out two days later with 29.60, and its gonna take a crap........., and you WILL lose et and mph............
if you don't have a weather station with you, you are comparing nothing........
Not bashing, just stating facts for the thread, and I think all will agree on this info..........
On a steet driven bike, I would want it all in the mid range, and to hell with top end.......
____________
42 Wins
21 Runner-ups
2010 TMRC Super Street Points Champion
2010 PMRA Super Street #3 Points
2009 PMRA Super Street Points Runner-Up
6 Time Centerville Dragway Points Champion
Sponsored by:
Scorpion Helmets
Galfer Braking
AMSOIL
Steve's Speed Shop
Kawasaki Sports Center
Mickey Thompson Tires
Catalyst Racing Composites
Conway Cycle
Syed Leathers
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zx14mike
Zone Head
Posts: 891
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posted May 17, 2008 08:11 AM
quote:
In a drag race set up, you dont use much under the power curve except the very HIGH rpm, if the clutch is right......, it should never drop down after the hammer is dropped...........
HP IS HP.......
putting it down, and doing it right is two different things.........
Black magic, what were the DA, humidity, temp, and barometer between those days at the track.........
on these bikes with a BP sensor, if you get a day with 29.95 BP, and all else being good as well, its gonna ROOOLLLLL..........,
go out two days later with 29.60, and its gonna take a crap........., and you WILL lose et and mph............
if you don't have a weather station with you, you are comparing nothing........
Not bashing, just stating facts for the thread, and I think all will agree on this info..........
On a steet driven bike, I would want it all in the mid range, and to hell with top end.......
"
Great post Nox, your right for a street driven bike where all the guy cares about is roll ons midrange is where its at and i think gearing and a aftermarket exhaust that focuses on midrange instead of topend is the way to go, stock will give you more lowend but they are boat anchors and for rollon power you want midrange with a little more over rev than stock while cutting 30 pounds.
Your right though horsepower is horsepower at the dragstrip and as long as you can put it down more horsepower should win.
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smokinzx14
Needs a life
Posts: 10197
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posted May 17, 2008 08:11 AM
 Edited By: smokinzx14 on 17 May 2008 09:13
Even in a roll on race i would never start off less than 60 MPH in second gear ...That seems to be what most roll on racers around here do ... So gear the bike to have the best punch at 60 MPH in second gear ... In a Roll on race the motor will only see mid range rpm for a very short time if the gear right , after that it a drag race and the motor will never see anything but high RPMs ...So why would you need more mid range pipe with less top end power ? Go with the pipe that gives you the highest TQ and HP numbers .. If geared right the pipe that runs the fastest at the track will be the on to use in a roll on race ..
____________
Smokin Performance Cycles..
Tampa Bay , FL .. Brocks Performance Dealer ..
Gen 2 ZX14R Best ET 8.43 , Best MPH 164.95
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qwick
Expert Class
Posts: 413
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posted May 17, 2008 08:27 AM
I agree with you Smokin... although most roll-ons start in the mid-range RPM's, they quickly jump up to the higher R's just like a race at the track and never drop much below redline.
Maybe Muzzy should have sent you one of the new M14's for an accurate assessment and comparison between the Smeg & the M14.
Be safe.
Qwick
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NOX
Needs a job
PMRA / TMRC Super Street 4022
Posts: 3745
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posted May 17, 2008 08:48 AM
But, as always, roll ons are just street racing, and , when it comes down to it, counts for nothing , especially when you get arrested, or hurt someone.......
____________
42 Wins
21 Runner-ups
2010 TMRC Super Street Points Champion
2010 PMRA Super Street #3 Points
2009 PMRA Super Street Points Runner-Up
6 Time Centerville Dragway Points Champion
Sponsored by:
Scorpion Helmets
Galfer Braking
AMSOIL
Steve's Speed Shop
Kawasaki Sports Center
Mickey Thompson Tires
Catalyst Racing Composites
Conway Cycle
Syed Leathers
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smokinzx14
Needs a life
Posts: 10197
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posted May 17, 2008 09:02 AM
quote:
But, as always, roll ons are just street racing, and , when it comes down to it, counts for nothing , especially when you get arrested, or hurt someone.......
And that is the truth !!!!!!!
____________
Smokin Performance Cycles..
Tampa Bay , FL .. Brocks Performance Dealer ..
Gen 2 ZX14R Best ET 8.43 , Best MPH 164.95
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Red1
Expert Class
Posts: 442
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posted May 17, 2008 09:21 AM
Edited By: Red1 on 17 May 2008 10:22
That's real talk NOX!
If you want to race go to the strip where it is safe and you don't have all the hype and talk about someone leaving early etc.....the lights don't lie on either end of the track!.
____________
Red12/Blue14
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qwick
Expert Class
Posts: 413
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posted May 17, 2008 09:29 AM
quote:
But, as always, roll ons are just street racing, and , when it comes down to it, counts for nothing , especially when you get arrested, or hurt someone.......
+1
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NOX
Needs a job
PMRA / TMRC Super Street 4022
Posts: 3745
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posted May 17, 2008 10:29 AM
And with that note, I am pulling out right now..........., headed to the track.
Gotta tune a GSXR 1000 multistage, and get mine fine tuned......
____________
42 Wins
21 Runner-ups
2010 TMRC Super Street Points Champion
2010 PMRA Super Street #3 Points
2009 PMRA Super Street Points Runner-Up
6 Time Centerville Dragway Points Champion
Sponsored by:
Scorpion Helmets
Galfer Braking
AMSOIL
Steve's Speed Shop
Kawasaki Sports Center
Mickey Thompson Tires
Catalyst Racing Composites
Conway Cycle
Syed Leathers
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bigdtd
Needs a job
Interceptors
Posts: 4209
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posted May 18, 2008 06:54 AM
quote:
But, as always, roll ons are just street racing, and , when it comes down to it, counts for nothing , especially when you get arrested, or hurt someone.......
it may count for something if you put something on it
____________
2006 Black ZX-14,6 inches over,16/42, flies out,BMC Street Filter,Brock's Street Meg,Brock's Radial Mount Strap,PClll with Race map,Dynojet LCD w/Techmount, ZX-14 fender eliminator,Pilot Power2CTs,Speedohealer,Pazzo Levers,Cox Radiator Guard, Garmin Nuvi 265WT
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davej
Expert Class
Posts: 451
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posted May 18, 2008 02:26 PM
Edited By: davej on 18 May 2008 15:31
Installed the Muzzy stage 1 turbo in Dec, have 4500 miles on the kit. Can't match Smokinzx14 at the strip, can only go 10.20 @ 147 stock wheel base lowered to middle link. 1.9 60' 6.9 1/8 @ 113. Getting out of the hole would improve greatly with a longer swing arm. For the street and everyday commute simply can't find a better combo for now. Oh yes losing 50lbs wouldn't hurt either. Other 14s at this altitude slammed and lowered run the same ET but at 133mph, completely stock. Somebody say 1/4 mile was easy?........not. low end 3000 up and midrange are awesome with the turbo at 5 lbs 235 hp.
____________
Triumph guy
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