heraser
Expert Class
Tall Blue 14
Posts: 259
|
posted April 20, 2008 05:30 PM
Big and Tall Question
I'm 6'5 270 long legs with wide shoulders. I'm finding that I get a lot of wind. My cruiser leather jacket (too big) at 95+ and my Nitro mesh at 120+. I know a lot of guys on the forum are blasting on this bike but I find I'm not using its potential. I'm riding with a group of 600's and 1000's on some curvy roads and I always take tail gunner cus in the turns they are smokin me.
I've lowered the pegs (Corbin) and raised the bars (Genmar). Any suggestions on jackets and or changes that you've done. If you know a good vendor for x-long that would be helpful also. Riding tips are appreciated.
Thanks
____________
Blue '07 Racetech Fork Kit/Ohlins Rear
Ivan Tuned Fast and SMOOTH!
   
|
countersteer
Needs a job
Didn't read the owners manual
Posts: 2207
|
posted April 20, 2008 05:43 PM
 Edited By: countersteer on 20 Apr 2008 18:46
be confident - not scared, buy some good rubber, regear it, and ride that bitch like you stole it. thats the only way youll keep up with the toy 600s. knowing the road helps a lot too.
easy way to visually gauge if youre maxing out the corner capabilities: there are NO chicken strips on the tires- not even a millimeter, and the peg bolts are ground down as well as the lower fairings. learn to shift your body weight and keep a loose riding position at times. if youre not using your brakes, then youre not going fast enough.
if youre doing all of that, and you still cant hang with the 600s, then stop riding with casey stoner and max biaggi.
edit:
forgot to mention to stiffen up the front and rear suspension. and joe rocket leather jackets are good for the money, but nothing beats a VANSON.
____________
Scott
Long Island, New York
2006 ZX-14, 2003 ZX-12R
|
FasterThanStink
Pro
Posts: 1218
|
posted April 20, 2008 08:22 PM
Get a good fitting Vanson jacket. If the fit is correct it will not flutter.
____________
Speed has never killed anyone,
suddenly becoming stationary...
That's what gets you.
|
Sticks_n_Stones
Needs a job
Posts: 3930
|
posted April 20, 2008 09:49 PM
Edited By: Sticks_n_Stones on 20 Apr 2008 22:56
Im 6'5" also, and 320lbs. I would recommend using New Enough as a very good, and very affordable, online retailer for bigger riders. Rely on "Pauls Comments" for info about actual fit and finish on the apparel. I was skeptical at first, but his comments are spot on. They also have a "real versus advertised" fitting chart that tells you where to measure, and how the listed sizes compare to the real sizes.
http://newenough.com/
On the twisties riding, I've got good news and bad news for you:
1: A well ridden 600 or newer 1000 will be able to corner sharper than you. if you try and only corner as deep an angle as your average 600, you will find yourself running disconcertingly wide. Thats because of the longer wheelbase of the 14. Just remember you have to be leaning a degree or two farther than them for any given sharp corner and you'll be fine.
2: There are very very very few riders you will encounter out there who can fully utilize a 600 or 1000's true cornering abilities. Figure maybe 2% of 600cc riders can use what they are sitting on. Odds are your friends dont fall into that 2%, so don't use that as an excuse. Practice Practice Practice
What you need to work on that are of particular importance to a bike like the 14: Braking first and foremost. Don't let up prematurely and deccel into the corners. You have some of the best brakes ever fitted to a stock bike, so use them!
DO NOT rely on your power to make up for your lack of cornering. As you no doubt have found, the 14 is not powerful enough to reel in fast 600's or any new 1000 on the short straights between corners. Hell, the new ZX10 and CBR1000 are equals in rollon contests with your 14. You have more power, but more weight...
Work on your cornering angles and lines. Get off the brakes AS YOU GO INTO YOUR LEAN, and roll on the gas AS YOU START COMING UP from your max lean. Do not waste any excess traction when you are playing in the corners with Super Sports! Stomp those bastards everywhere and take away there excuses for not being the best rider they could be.
Me and Countersteer are telling you this stuff because we both know the ultimate satisfaction of the deafening silence at the first group stop after you just kept right with or passed guys who had said versions of this to us: "A 14 is only meant for straight lines", "My 600 will eat your 14 when the roads get twisty", or my favorite "I bought my ___ for the twisties, not the straights".
Cornering is more about whats above the seat then whats below it. Trust me.
One more thing: if you come across a supermotard bike wearing full on street/strip tires in the twisties ----- just kick his ass into the ditch. Trust me. 
edit: I almost forgot, those high rise bars are putting more of your body into the slip stream. And those lower pegs are going to adversly affect your cornering clearance. The mildly aggressive stock riding position is there for a reason. Sit over your tank, keeping your weight as low and as forward as possible when accellerating ( I know you know that, but just reminding). Try to keep your weight as far back as possible when braking, and always always always keep pressure on your pegs in corners. Never sit on your butt, it should just barely be touching the seat. You cant react fast enough if your weight isnt already on the pegs. And lean off that beast, its the only way you can make up for the other bikes better lean angles/ cornering lines. Dont just stick your knee out and call it good. Keep the knee in and slide your ass and torso off. You will get used to it quickly, but expect your legs to take a helluva workout. Its good for you I hear...
____________
'06 zx14
Muzzy M10/M14
PCIII w/ Muzzy map
Flies out K&N in!
bits n pieces...
|
lietoome
Needs a job
Posts: 2033
|
posted April 21, 2008 12:05 AM
take the 14 to the track and lean/learn its limitations. Don't let your ego get the best of you take your time and enjoy the ride, your skills will sharpen.
+1 on the Newenough.com
|
Sticks_n_Stones
Needs a job
Posts: 3930
|
posted April 21, 2008 05:39 AM
Yeah you're right Lietoome, thats where I learned most of my best skills. Too damn hard to push yourself that hard on the street where the inevitable screw up can kill you.
I've overrran corners, high sided, and just plain rookie'd enough corners on the track to nearly guarantee if it was the street, I wouldn't be here. On the track you just pick yourself up off the soft grass or deep gravel and (try) and hop back on your bike.
Sure beats pulling yourself out of a Dodge truck grill...
____________
'06 zx14
Muzzy M10/M14
PCIII w/ Muzzy map
Flies out K&N in!
bits n pieces...
|
countersteer
Needs a job
Didn't read the owners manual
Posts: 2207
|
posted April 21, 2008 07:29 AM
anyone who tells you a 14 cant corner doesnt know what the hell theyre talking about.
people have asked me "why dont you just get a 1000?" my reply: ever seen a circus bear riding a tiny bicycle?
____________
Scott
Long Island, New York
2006 ZX-14, 2003 ZX-12R
|
MDWZX14
Parking Attendant
Posts: 27
|
posted April 21, 2008 10:56 AM
I must second several things that were already mentioned. 1) Get a Vanson. There is a reason they cost what they cost, they work. 2) Familiarize yourself with your all of your suspension settings front and back. I spent weeks reading up on preload, rebound, and compression before I adjusted them all on my 12 and subsequently on my 14. It makes a differece. I'm 6'4 and 3 bills. Biguns like us need to stiffen things up a bit. 3) Find good tires that YOU like, it's all subjective 4) Go out BY YOURSELF and practice, practice, practice. If you can't get to a track, find some not-too-busy stretch of curvy road and go practice when no other bikes are around and when traffic is light. Run that thing back and forth and back and forth, and back and forth until your body is sore or the cops kick you off. Each time you run it, try a little something different; grip on the bars, weight on the pegs, ass on the seat, speed thru the turns, where you look while you are cornering, etc. Remember, Smooth is Fast. That alone time will be the best time you spend. You will better your skills and become more confident in your bike and your lean angle. Just ride within your limits and practice as your limits continually expand. One last reminder - the bike can do it even when you think you can't, so lean it a wee bit more.
|
Sticks_n_Stones
Needs a job
Posts: 3930
|
posted April 21, 2008 11:37 AM
+1 MDW.
Also a addendum to your "Smooth is Fast": Once you have gotten your riding style to the point of being smooth, to being able to accellerate, brake, corner, etc. to the point where it feels fluid to you, then you are ready for the next step. Pick up the pace. Hold the throttle pinned longer, brake harder, transition from HARD braking to FULL lean quicker. Get that new heightened pace 'broken in' until it, too, feels smooth. Then pick up the pace again.
Critical components that cannot change there are your cornering lines. You should pick a line and not veer from it through most every corner. Having to adjust midcorner means you picked the wrong line (or something outside of your control came into play). As your speeds increase, maintaining those cornering lines should always be your #1 goal.
My best advice is take some track classes and get on your local tracks as much as possible. Follow the good guys, when possible, and copy them. Talk to them in the pits, pick there brain, they wont mind one bit.
Just never EVER let the fact you are riding a 14 play into it. Don't let your ego get the best of you and make you push yourself too hard before you are ready. Riding is a teeter totter: Skill and experience one one end, and speed on the other. Don't overbalance it.
Good luck!
____________
'06 zx14
Muzzy M10/M14
PCIII w/ Muzzy map
Flies out K&N in!
bits n pieces...
|
heraser
Expert Class
Tall Blue 14
Posts: 259
|
posted April 22, 2008 08:40 AM
Thanks all for the great info. Good to know that there are other BIg and Tall riders out there and what they are doing. Just what I was looking for.
I only have 1700 miles on the bike and I'm learning (sport bike riding) each time I go out. I will definitely be working on my turns/braking and stop watching the 600 lines in the corner.
Sticks -Thanks for the website, I'll check it out.
Faster - I know Vanson so I'll check them out also.
DP
Keep the rubber side down.
____________
Blue '07 Racetech Fork Kit/Ohlins Rear
Ivan Tuned Fast and SMOOTH!
|
ninja12
Needs a job
Posts: 3310
|
posted April 22, 2008 09:26 AM
It takes a lot of skill to keep up with the 600's in the curves.
Been there done that, almost lost a friend doing it.
Ol' guy says take it to the track, be safe on the street.
|
Sticks_n_Stones
Needs a job
Posts: 3930
|
posted April 22, 2008 10:38 AM
The only thing required to keep up with the 600's in the curves is to be a better rider than those guys. 
____________
'06 zx14
Muzzy M10/M14
PCIII w/ Muzzy map
Flies out K&N in!
bits n pieces...
|
dubious
Needs a life
Needs more time to ride!
Posts: 8442
|
posted April 22, 2008 10:54 AM
quote:
It takes a lot of skill to keep up with the 600's in the curves.
Been there done that, almost lost a friend doing it.
Ol' guy says take it to the track, be safe on the street.
+1
your only fooling yourself thinking a combined weight of 550 lbs, can hang with 825 lbs on the same size contact patch....
the physics of momentum tell me it can not be done....
that said, some good riding tips have already been mentioned.
The zx14 is extremely undersprung and underdampened for your weight.
Better suspension will make a world of difference. 
Ask FBA what he thinks of the suspenion on his 14 , after the ohlins and springs I sold him....
____________
natural selection.....
destiny will overcome intervention.
Some are not worthy of the effort.
|
Sticks_n_Stones
Needs a job
Posts: 3930
|
posted April 22, 2008 10:58 AM
Crap Dubious, I forgot all about the suspension. I tossed my rear spring after one week with my 14, and bought the fork springs a week after that. got Racetec springs now, weighted for a 300 pound rider. Makes a real world of difference, turns the 14 into a slightly porky 1000.
____________
'06 zx14
Muzzy M10/M14
PCIII w/ Muzzy map
Flies out K&N in!
bits n pieces...
|
countersteer
Needs a job
Didn't read the owners manual
Posts: 2207
|
posted April 22, 2008 12:24 PM
quote:
quote:
It takes a lot of skill to keep up with the 600's in the curves.
Been there done that, almost lost a friend doing it.
Ol' guy says take it to the track, be safe on the street.
+1
your only fooling yourself thinking a combined weight of 550 lbs, can hang with 825 lbs on the same size contact patch....
the physics of momentum tell me it can not be done....
that said, some good riding tips have already been mentioned.
The zx14 is extremely undersprung and underdampened for your weight.
Better suspension will make a world of difference.
Ask FBA what he thinks of the suspenion on his 14 , after the ohlins and springs I sold him....
lyle, this is very true! but keep in mind, most 600 riders on the street cant ride worth shit!
you should be able to hang within reason, especially as soon as a straight opens up. ive never had problems staying with them, but those 1000s can be downright nasty at times.
____________
Scott
Long Island, New York
2006 ZX-14, 2003 ZX-12R
|
Sticks_n_Stones
Needs a job
Posts: 3930
|
posted April 22, 2008 01:11 PM
Those 1000's can be nasty because they got nearly the same power to weight as the 14, and there riders tend to be more experienced than the novices on 600's. Bad combo for to encounter if you're on a Busa or 14
____________
'06 zx14
Muzzy M10/M14
PCIII w/ Muzzy map
Flies out K&N in!
bits n pieces...
|
heraser
Expert Class
Tall Blue 14
Posts: 259
|
posted April 23, 2008 10:55 AM
Thanks for the suspension info also. That will be my next mod with the tires.
____________
Blue '07 Racetech Fork Kit/Ohlins Rear
Ivan Tuned Fast and SMOOTH!
|
redsnake2
Novice Class
Posts: 73
|
posted April 23, 2008 02:52 PM
At 6'6" 320 LBS Sticks where did you get your springs from?
|
BIGZXDADDY
Expert Class
Posts: 270
|
posted April 23, 2008 03:48 PM
quote:
Those 1000's can be nasty because they got nearly the same power to weight as the 14, and there riders tend to be more experienced than the novices on 600's. Bad
combo for to encounter if you're on a Busa or 14
not so much for an experienced rider with good rubber and a set of balls
____________
"never drive faster than you can see, besides it's all in the reflexes"
|
Sticks_n_Stones
Needs a job
Posts: 3930
|
posted April 24, 2008 06:02 AM
I bought my springs from Racetec. Give them a call, tell them exactly what you want and intend to do with it, and they will hook you up! I bought them through my dealer, paid around 300 for them. I imagine you can find a better deal online, but I was told the rear spring is best left to a dealer to install. Proper tools and no finger loss issues! Did the front springs myself with the Traxxion universal spring compressor and bleed kits (best price I found, $74 total + shipping). When you do the fronts, you will need a second set of hands though. And it took me and my friend about 3 hours. My dealer said its a hour deal for them. Them guys must be friggin fast!
____________
'06 zx14
Muzzy M10/M14
PCIII w/ Muzzy map
Flies out K&N in!
bits n pieces...
|
dubious
Needs a life
Needs more time to ride!
Posts: 8442
|
posted April 24, 2008 06:33 AM
quote:
quote:
Those 1000's can be nasty because they got nearly the same power to weight as the 14, and there riders tend to be more experienced than the novices on 600's. Bad
combo for to encounter if you're on a Busa or 14
not so much for an experienced rider with good rubber and a set of balls
again ..........
your only fooling yourself thinking a combined weight of 550 lbs, can hang with 825 lbs on the same size contact patch....
the physics of momentum tell me it can not be done....
a good rider on a 1000 and some really twisty road will show you the limitations of the 14.
on a general highway that meets the minimum road engioneering standards of N/A the 14 will run away from a 1000 due to the sweepers and straights,
.....but for the twisty stuff, the difference in cornering speed will downright be a slap in the face
the 14 will burn off its pegs, lower fairing and cases trying though....LOL
BTW I own and am a huge advocate of the 14.
____________
natural selection.....
destiny will overcome intervention.
Some are not worthy of the effort.
|
Sticks_n_Stones
Needs a job
Posts: 3930
|
posted April 24, 2008 06:55 AM
I've already found those limitations trying to keep up with my riding buddy on his 636 (see his pics and mods on the ZX6 sight, I just posted them for him). I never had any problem hanging with him and cornering faster than him when I had my TL1000R, but with the 14 it was a different story. Just couldnt pull off his cornering speeds, and had to lean at a higher lean angle to match his turn radius.
That leaning farther thing took me by surprise until I thought out the physics of it. The longer wheel base of the 14 requires a steeper lean angle to match the turning radius of his shorter bike. It's a bad combo when you have a bike that requires more lean for a given corner, and has less clearance to do it with. Oh well, at least I got more than enough power to reel him back in on the ensueing straights. Damn, I sound like a Busa rider...
____________
'06 zx14
Muzzy M10/M14
PCIII w/ Muzzy map
Flies out K&N in!
bits n pieces...
|
KikonZX14
Pro
Novice
Posts: 1813
|
posted April 24, 2008 07:25 AM
Thanks again guys, with the "words of wisdom" of Stix & Stevefl in the post I did of a day track I had a couple of weeks ago, plus all the wisdom poured here, MEN! it's good to be around people who know their "business" like you guys do. Very useful for us Rookies. Thanks, honestly.
Hugz,
David
____________
Feel the need for SPEED2007 ZX-14 Black with Red Flames (Helibars, Sliders, Yoshimura TRC Ti 4-2 Slip Ons, Fender Eliminator, Zero Gravity SR Windscreen, Custom Heel Guards , Speedohealer V4, Pazzo Levers -soon to come: Flies out / PCV w/A/T kit and later 16T sprocket)1990 Honda Steed (Japan model same as Shadow)1993 Kawasaki Vulcan EN 500 (gone as I trade it in for the ZX-14)Santiago, Chile, South America
|
Sticks_n_Stones
Needs a job
Posts: 3930
|
posted April 24, 2008 08:44 AM
No problems Kikon, and just glad you got some useful info out of us.
____________
'06 zx14
Muzzy M10/M14
PCIII w/ Muzzy map
Flies out K&N in!
bits n pieces...
|
fury
Expert Class
Posts: 427
|
posted April 25, 2008 04:01 PM
Great post!
|
|
|
HOME
NEW TOPIC