EFE ZX-14
Novice Class
Posts: 35
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posted February 24, 2008 10:49 PM
 Edited By: EFE ZX-14 on 24 Feb 2008 22:52
Is speedometer off when rear sprocket is changed?
I'm thinking of changing my rear sprocket on my new ZX-14 to a higher gear ratio to lower the rpm while cruising. I understand it will also make all the other gears higher also, but I find this bike easily has enough torque to handle it. I'm not interested in quarter mile times as much as having lower rpm while cruising.
Is the speedometer connected to the transmission, rear wheel or front wheel? If it is effected by changing the rear sprocket, is there a way to recalibrate the speedo to the new ratio?
I'm sure this question has been asked before but I couldn't get the search box to work for some odd reason?
Appreciate any info!
EFE ZX-14
PS:
Also, where is the best place to buy a new sprocket and what's the number of teeth on the stock one?
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EFE ZX-14
  
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Tool Man
Needs a job
Posts: 4493
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posted February 25, 2008 02:07 AM
Edited By: Tool Man on 25 Feb 2008 02:12
Hey no worries.. all questions are OK as long as you don't ask the same one twice.
The guys who are looking for a little more top end are running a 18 tooth counter shaft sprocket, that will also lower your crusing rpm.
Stock gearing is 17/41 which is a 2.411 ratio...
18/41 would be a 2.277 which would be aprox. a 6% change and would lower your RPM in 6th gear the same amount. You would have to drop about 3 teeth (38) on the rear to get the same.
Yes it will change your speedo reading. The speedo is driven by a sensor off the counter shaft sprocket.
I run a Speedo Healer. Look it up on Google. They work well and cost about 100 bucks.
I buy most of my stuff from Schnitz Racing. Good people, Good service, They answer the phone!!
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BobC
Pro
Posts: 1736
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posted February 25, 2008 05:02 AM
Edited By: BobC on 25 Feb 2008 05:18
As above, the speedo drive is taken off the gearbox sprocket by a tach head. That feeds straight into the ecu. Do a search on Speedo Healer for recalibration. I have run 18/41, like Tool Man describes but found it a bit too high for pulling maximum rpm in 6th, not too bad for riding though. Depends what you are after I suppose.
I am currently running 17/40, down one tooth on the rear, which is just a couple of percent higher than the standard ratio and it is really good. With the secondaries out and a decent PC map the bike still pulls away very quickly. I just love it, went through the speed trap at our last meeting at 203.1mph. By the way, I couldn't buy a 40 tooth off-the-shelf, Renthal made me one to order.
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Candy Thunder Blue 2006 ZZR1400
Stock wheelbase
Max: 205.4 mph in 1.25 miles
2012 ZZR1400 in Golden Blazed Green
Brock CT Full System. etc
Max: 203.1 in 1 mile (so far)
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EFE ZX-14
Novice Class
Posts: 35
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posted February 25, 2008 06:38 AM
Edited By: EFE ZX-14 on 25 Feb 2008 06:39
In either case - 18 in front or 40 in rear, is the stock chain still long enough? Is there enough play to adjust the wheel forward a little more?
Thanks!
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EFE ZX-14
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dubious
Needs a life
Needs more time to ride!
Posts: 8442
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posted February 25, 2008 06:47 AM
Edited By: dubious on 25 Feb 2008 06:49
18/41 corrects 6% the stock speedo 8% error, with only 2% error left, so I wouldn't bother with a speedo healer.
18/40 corrects 8.5% of the 8% stock error, so it is really close, but be sure to remember, there is no room for error when the police are around...
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natural selection.....
destiny will overcome intervention.
Some are not worthy of the effort.
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EFE ZX-14
Novice Class
Posts: 35
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posted February 25, 2008 07:57 AM
Still didn't get my last question answered. Will the stock chain accommodate the larger sprockets (18 or 40)?
Thanks!
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EFE ZX-14
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BobC
Pro
Posts: 1736
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posted February 25, 2008 08:31 AM
Edited By: BobC on 25 Feb 2008 08:38
Yes to both, if you change to 17/40 the rear wheel will be back a little bit further in the rear swing arm but there is still a lot of adjustment left, mine is sitting in the middle of the slot with the standard lenght drive chain so no worries. The 18 tooth gearbox sprocket with the standard 41 tooth rear will pull the wheel forward a little, so it will shorten the wheelbase, not enough to cause any problems though. For example, it won't be more likely to wheely because the gearing will be higher.
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Candy Thunder Blue 2006 ZZR1400
Stock wheelbase
Max: 205.4 mph in 1.25 miles
2012 ZZR1400 in Golden Blazed Green
Brock CT Full System. etc
Max: 203.1 in 1 mile (so far)
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EFE ZX-14
Novice Class
Posts: 35
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posted February 25, 2008 09:18 AM
Edited By: EFE ZX-14 on 25 Feb 2008 10:07
Thanks guys for all your answers! I have no plans on doing a wheely anyhow, I just would like the rpm to be a little lower when cruising at 75 to 80mph on our AZ highways (speed limit is 75). If I go with an 18 in front and leave the rear sprocket stock, do any of you know how much the rpm drops at 65 or 75 mph?
Thanks again!
Ed
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EFE ZX-14
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Tool Man
Needs a job
Posts: 4493
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posted February 25, 2008 09:55 AM
quote:
Thanks guys for all your answers! I have no plans on doing a wheel anyhow, I just would like the rpm to be a little lower when cruising at 75 to 80mph on our AZ highways (speed limit is 75). If I go with an 18 in front and leave the rear sprocket stock, do any of you how much the rpm drops at 65 or 75 mph?
Thanks again!
Ed
About 6%
If you don't mind me asking, Zx14's are very smoth and buzz free at most rpm ranges.
I live in Chandler Az and run 16/43 gearing and the added rpm does not bother me at all.
I like the added torque of lower gearing, why the need for a higher gear ?
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The banks are failing..
The banks are failing...
Invest in Ammo
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EFE ZX-14
Novice Class
Posts: 35
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posted February 25, 2008 10:05 AM
I really don't need to accelerate faster, I'm looking for lower rpm on the highway. I cruise around AZ a lot with other bike friends and I prefer to have the engine running less rpm in 6th gear. I think it's running around 3500rpm at 75mph which seems high to me. If I can get it down closer to 2500 rpm that would be great and I know this thing would still have tons of torque.
I just called Schnitz Racing and ordered a 39 tooth rear sprocket and some engine ice to make it run cooler. Does anyone know what percent difference a 39 tooth sprocket will make? I figured it alone will probably be close to correcting that 8% error?
Thanks for all your help and advice!
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EFE ZX-14
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zx14mike
Zone Head
Posts: 891
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posted February 25, 2008 01:52 PM
about 5%
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zx14mike
Zone Head
Posts: 891
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posted February 25, 2008 01:53 PM
BTW, if your looking for an 18 tooth, i have one i'd be more than happy to part with.
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EFE ZX-14
Novice Class
Posts: 35
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posted February 25, 2008 07:12 PM
quote:
BTW, if your looking for an 18 tooth, i have one i'd be more than happy to part with.
Is it brand new? How much?
Thanks,
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EFE ZX-14
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EFE ZX-14
Novice Class
Posts: 35
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posted February 25, 2008 07:35 PM
Edited By: EFE ZX-14 on 25 Feb 2008 19:35
Well, I went out on the highway today to check the rpm. The 14 is turning 3500 rpm at 70 mph, worse than I thought! It definitely makes acceleration fast but I do more cruising than worrying about how fast it accelerates. I know, I know, then why did I buy a ZX-14? Because I wanted to! ((( ;
Since most of my riding is open highways, the higher gearing will just work out better. Why cruise at 75, 80 or 90 mph and have the engine revving more than necessary? Maybe it will take 1/2 second longer to reach a higher speed if I leave it in 6th gear, but all I'll have to do is downshift and extra gear or two and I'll still have blazing acceleration! With stock gearing, someone going 75 mph might have to downshift from 6th to 5th or maybe even 4th, I'll probably be able to downshift to 3rd if need be and have plenty of punch at that speed. Do you see my point?
For lots of highway driving it just makes sense to have higher gearing, but for racing and ultra blazing acceleration, going with lower gears would be the trick! From what I understand while I was shopping for a new bike, the new B-King Suzuki has the Hyabusa engine with lower gearing to make it the drag strip king! I haven't heard the 1/4 mile times yet, but lowering the gears and having a Hyabusa engine has got to make the B-King insanely fast! I just didn't like the looks of it, although I did like the looks of the Kawasaki Z1000, both naked bikes!
Thanks!
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EFE ZX-14
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3boysand3bikes
Expert Class
Posts: 382
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posted February 25, 2008 10:14 PM
I do have to mention something non scientific.... Last year, someone on here.. (I don't remember who) said that he gets better gas mileage riding in 5th gear than he does in 6th.. and that he gets better gas mileage in 6th if he is going somewhere like 100 or so... I can't remember exactly.. but I did try different things for a week or so and did find some interesting things. One would assume that if you are running 2500rpms that you would get better mileage than running 3500 etc... but I don't believe that is proven. Maybe others can chime in... but I think that I got 5mpg better at 55 mph in 5th than when I was in 6th. I admit that it wasn't a controlled test... but it did work out that way everytime I did check it... and that included with 2 riders. This being said... if it is true.. your 14 motor may be bogging down with the different sprockets as you are riding... which does strain the motor a bit. You want to ride at the optimum rpm for the speed for the motor tune that you have. Just some things to think about... Let us know if you like it better.
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zx14mike
Zone Head
Posts: 891
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posted February 25, 2008 10:36 PM
yeah, its essentially brand new, i changed it at like 450 miles..........its the good Kawsaki factory dampened.......like $30.
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EFE ZX-14
Novice Class
Posts: 35
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posted February 25, 2008 10:59 PM
quote:
yeah, its essentially brand new, i changed it at like 450 miles..........its the good Kawsaki factory dampened.......like $30.
Well, let me try this new sprocket first before I go with any higher gearing, it might be all I need?
I'll keep your sprocket in mind!
Thanks,
EFE ZX-14
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EFE ZX-14
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EFE ZX-14
Novice Class
Posts: 35
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posted February 25, 2008 11:18 PM
quote:
I do have to mention something non scientific.... Last year, someone on here.. (I don't remember who) said that he gets better gas mileage riding in 5th gear than he does in 6th.. and that he gets better gas mileage in 6th if he is going somewhere like 100 or so... I can't remember exactly.. but I did try different things for a week or so and did find some interesting things. One would assume that if you are running 2500rpms that you would get better mileage than running 3500 etc... but I don't believe that is proven. Maybe others can chime in... but I think that I got 5mpg better at 55 mph in 5th than when I was in 6th. I admit that it wasn't a controlled test... but it did work out that way everytime I did check it... and that included with 2 riders. This being said... if it is true.. your 14 motor may be bogging down with the different sprockets as you are riding... which does strain the motor a bit. You want to ride at the optimum rpm for the speed for the motor tune that you have. Just some things to think about... Let us know if you like it better.
You may be correct? Any engine produces its best performance and gas mileage at a certain rpm's, going lower or higher than its optimum rpm for gas mileage can produce other benefits (like horsepower or torque) but may not give the best mpg. Lugging an engine can be bad for not only gas mileage but also on the crankshaft and transmission. I don't know what the optimum rpm is for gas mileage on the ZX-14, but if others are correct and I drop about 6% in gear ration and engine rpm, I'll only be dropping about 200 to 300 rpm, which isn't very much and no way enough to lug the engine in 6th gear at 75 mph.
Will the stock 3500 rpm @ 70 mph give better mileage than 3200 rpm? That remains to be seen, but I doubt the mileage will change much (if at all), but engine wear will definitely be less because of the simple fact that engines wear out as they add up more rpm's over time.
Perhaps I'll find a nice flat road and take several runs up and down it at exactly 70 mph and see what the gas mileage reads, then when I change the gearing I'll try it again and see if it changes.
I'll let you all know the outcome!
Thanks,
EFE ZX-14
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EFE ZX-14
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BobC
Pro
Posts: 1736
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posted February 26, 2008 02:22 AM
It's easy to do an mpg test comparing 5th and 6th at varoius rpm by selecting the instantaneous mpg display.
____________
Candy Thunder Blue 2006 ZZR1400
Stock wheelbase
Max: 205.4 mph in 1.25 miles
2012 ZZR1400 in Golden Blazed Green
Brock CT Full System. etc
Max: 203.1 in 1 mile (so far)
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Tool Man
Needs a job
Posts: 4493
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posted February 26, 2008 09:55 AM
quote:
quote:
I do have to mention something non scientific.... Last year, someone on here.. (I don't remember who) said that he gets better gas mileage riding in 5th gear than he does in 6th.. and that he gets better gas mileage in 6th if he is going somewhere like 100 or so... I can't remember exactly.. but I did try different things for a week or so and did find some interesting things. One would assume that if you are running 2500rpms that you would get better mileage than running 3500 etc... but I don't believe that is proven. Maybe others can chime in... but I think that I got 5mpg better at 55 mph in 5th than when I was in 6th. I admit that it wasn't a controlled test... but it did work out that way everytime I did check it... and that included with 2 riders. This being said... if it is true.. your 14 motor may be bogging down with the different sprockets as you are riding... which does strain the motor a bit. You want to ride at the optimum rpm for the speed for the motor tune that you have. Just some things to think about... Let us know if you like it better.
You may be correct? Any engine produces its best performance and gas mileage at a certain rpm's, going lower or higher than its optimum rpm for gas mileage can produce other benefits (like horsepower or torque) but may not give the best mpg. Lugging an engine can be bad for not only gas mileage but also on the crankshaft and transmission. I don't know what the optimum rpm is for gas mileage on the ZX-14, but if others are correct and I drop about 6% in gear ration and engine rpm, I'll only be dropping about 200 to 300 rpm, which isn't very much and no way enough to lug the engine in 6th gear at 75 mph.
Will the stock 3500 rpm @ 70 mph give better mileage than 3200 rpm? That remains to be seen, but I doubt the mileage will change much (if at all), but engine wear will definitely be less because of the simple fact that engines wear out as they add up more rpm's over time.
Perhaps I'll find a nice flat road and take several runs up and down it at exactly 70 mph and see what the gas mileage reads, then when I change the gearing I'll try it again and see if it changes.
I'll let you all know the outcome!
Thanks,
EFE ZX-14
EFE .... I am starting to have some difficulty in your thinking process. ( with all due respect)
You trade off the Suzi 109 V-twin for the fastest stock bike on the planet (ZX14)
Then you want to neuter it with a higher gear and start talking about better gas mileage and start worrying about motor wear.
For the record... I have owned and ridden and raced most of the superbikes that have come out of Japan in the last 30 years...Starting with the CB750 to the ZX14 and most of the others as well.
Most of the guys here ride their bikes hard and enjoy them for what they are...The Best of motorcycle technology to date !!
While I and others are more than happy to answer all of your questions, if you don't want to be flamed as a troll you might want to figure out why you bought the 14 in the first place ?
If you find that this is a difficult problem for you then, you might want to ask these guys why?
http://moncom.net/moncomvespa.asp 
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The banks are failing...
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Sticks_n_Stones
Needs a job
Posts: 3930
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posted February 26, 2008 12:07 PM
The short answer is: The bike has too much power for him in stock condition. He either likes the bike anyways, or has now bought it and cant trade it in or sell it without taking a loss. So he wants to neuter the power a bit so it will become more "rideable" for his skill and comfort level. No reason to flame a guy for knowing his personal limitations, as long as he admits to them. Congrats on the bike EFE, and keep the wheels down! Give it a few more months of learning its abilities and you might just tame that beast. As the old school cowboys used to say: The best steed is often the hardest to break-in!
____________
'06 zx14
Muzzy M10/M14
PCIII w/ Muzzy map
Flies out K&N in!
bits n pieces...
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Tool Man
Needs a job
Posts: 4493
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posted February 26, 2008 12:25 PM
No disrespect intended, have fun.. 
____________
The banks are failing..
The banks are failing...
Invest in Ammo
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EFE ZX-14
Novice Class
Posts: 35
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posted February 26, 2008 01:55 PM
Edited By: EFE ZX-14 on 26 Feb 2008 13:58
I thought I made it pretty clear why I want higher gearing, because I do a lot of highway driving and don't need the rpm for instant acceleration. It's not trying to tone the bike down because of my skills, I've had lots of fast bikes in the past and don't have any problem taking any of them to there limit, whether it be in drag racing or road handling. You can say I've out grown that now and it's not my priority to take a bike to it's limits anymore, but I do like to have extra power when I want it.
I never said anything about trying to get better gas mileage, that just came up in the discussion. Ya think I bought a ZX-14 and am worrying about gas mileage? You misread something there!
If people want to flame someone because they didn't buy a ZX-14 to use it as others do, it seems childish to me? And as for possibly buying the bike and not wanting to take a loss or not being able to sell it, wrong assumption again. I could probably sell it tomorrow and make money from what I paid, but that's not my desire. I've also got one of the fastest production cars built in the world (a new Z06), but it doesn't mean I have to drive it like a maniac, and I don't. In the right place at the right time I've hit over 190mph in it and I probably won't do it again, but I experienced something very few cars can do.
If this ZX-14 ends up not being to my liking over time, it will just be another toy that has come and gone in a long list of toys I've owned over the years. I'm neither a fanatic or obsessed with any vehicle I've owned, and if my reasons for owning a ZX-14 are different than most on this website, I don't have a problem with it and neither should anyone here. Some people just enjoy trying things because they can, and I say have fun while you still can!
Thanks,
EFE ZX-14
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EFE ZX-14
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dubious
Needs a life
Needs more time to ride!
Posts: 8442
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posted February 26, 2008 02:34 PM
Edited By: dubious on 26 Feb 2008 14:37
DOOD IT IS NOT A DIESEL!
My duramax and cummins like 2500 RPM,
.........they are not high strung high piston speed inline 4's!
I was going to mention the same thing as 3b&3B stated, but you seem very intended on riding the bike below its torque and HP curve....
Personally I found the bike runs really weak and struggles below 3000 RPM.
Drivability , surging, bucking and almost flaming out would describe the way it runs below 2500 RPM under load.
.... when relating or comparing to a vtwin, or any other long stroke engine.....
.... and you won't get better fuel mileage down there, or less engine wear either....
When you load an engine up with fuel and wash the cylinders, or make it ping your not doing anything good for it.
Every engine has a lower operable ideal limit. Just like a higher optimal operating limit.
I could tell your hell bent in your persiut , so I never bothered responding b4 now, but being a nice guy trying to offer sound mechanical advice is just compelling for me.
Some ppl have to learn the hard way....
Its not a v-8 or a v-twin, its an inline 4 that was designed and engineered to operate above 3500 rpm.
Why 3500 rpm,? well if you look at dyno curves, especially ones with flies removed, the cams duration, and ignition timing, engineed combustion and flame speed are clearly represented by the big fat increase in torque right at 3500 RPM. It's just getting on the pipe there.
Nowadays with hardened cylinder linings and ring materials, normal use riding at 3500- 6500 for 100,000 km engine life is completely reasonable and acheivable expectation.
This engine was designed to make power from 3500 to 9500 RPM, or 3500 to 11,000 RPM uncorked.
If you want to ride at 2500 RPM, you really should have stuck with a Vtwin...
This engine is not configured to run optimally at that RPM.
Now that said, engine life, power, fuel mileage drivability and emmissions will be bettter if you ride it above 3000 - 3500 rpm...
FWIW, mine won't run worth shit on 89 octane until 3200 rpm, it pings! Detonation is the death knell for motors. It will run below 3200 under load on 91 Octane.
That tell me this engine, being high compression, with the cam duration it has and ignition timing even if it will handle 91, stil is on the edge...
I would never run my engine that close to pinging for miles on end...
I hope this helps you make the correct decision for you and your bike!
Whatever you decide to do, Enjoy it and good luck!
____________
natural selection.....
destiny will overcome intervention.
Some are not worthy of the effort.
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Sticks_n_Stones
Needs a job
Posts: 3930
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posted February 26, 2008 02:41 PM
Edited By: Sticks_n_Stones on 26 Feb 2008 14:44
Think 190 in a Z06 is fast, you outta been there when I hit 170mph (calibrated speedo) in my 78 camaro! Last time I ever try that shit without a proper front airdam... But as we both know, the ripping pull of a monster like the 14 is not in the same ball park. Kinda like comparing a jet boat to a Z06.
As far as longevity and such goes, don't worry about the 14's engine wearing out from the higher revs. Kawi overbuilt it for drag racing and such, in stock form it will give you at least 90K + easily of those kind of freeway miles. Though you might want to think of the C14 for that kinda riding. (Not my cup of tea, but a nice bike non the less).
____________
'06 zx14
Muzzy M10/M14
PCIII w/ Muzzy map
Flies out K&N in!
bits n pieces...
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