BlackMagic14
Needs a job
Posts: 2058
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posted January 22, 2008 01:29 AM
Poll Question:
MTC 2 stage LU or LCD and HUB
O.k I assume the people that are going to answer this question remmeber what I have done to my bike as far as non bolt on mods, if not PM me and I will explain. with that being said I have an oppurtunity to buy for the same price either a Multi Function Hub and LCD screen or a MTC 2 stage Lockup. I am 285 Naked. and have as of yet not really had a problem with clutches slipping but I do go through clutches quicker then the smaller guys, I also know That with the hub and LCD I can switch to my nitrous map on the fly and can even wire it to automatically switch maps when nitrous is engaged. other then that are there other benefits or disadvantages to either of these I am missing. I have NO EXPERIENCE WITH A LOCKUP and have heard differing things one question is does a lockup assuming all other things equal make it EASIER to attain better 60 footers? also can a lockup be safely and easily ridden EVERYDAY on the street.
Thanks Guys
Poll Results:
 0 votes (0%)
LCD SCREEN AND HUB
1 votes (50%)
MTC 2 Stage Lockup
1 votes (50%)
3rd item that might be better I.E Data Logger or something else
  
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kawabunga
Expert Class
Cogswell Cogs Installed
Posts: 284
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posted January 22, 2008 02:27 AM
If you are riding on the street as well as the strip you would benefit more from the Multi-Stage than the 2-Stage. Wheelbase is also a factor. The Multi-Stage is progressive whereas the 2-Stage is agressive, locks up really fast. If you are strip only, put a slider in for your best 60 foot times. The lock-ups really don't kick in until about 20 foot out of the hole so you won't see that big a difference if any at all.
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zxbob
Pro
Posts: 1692
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posted January 22, 2008 02:32 AM
 Edited By: zxbob on 22 Jan 2008 02:34
FWIW .....
My stock clutch held up fine untill I made it to the 300 hp mark.
At that point I had to go with a lock up.
If your planning to go over 250 hp - get the lock up.
Bob
____________
Good parts aint cheap and cheap parts aint good !
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1badzx12r
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posted January 22, 2008 05:30 AM
Edited By: 1badzx12r on 22 Jan 2008 05:31
quote:
If you are riding on the street as well as the strip you would benefit more from the Multi-Stage than the 2-Stage. Wheelbase is also a factor. The Multi-Stage is progressive whereas the 2-Stage is agressive, locks up really fast. If you are strip only, put a slider in for your best 60 foot times. The lock-ups really don't kick in until about 20 foot out of the hole so you won't see that big a difference if any at all.
i been trying for 1 month now to get the bugs out of my multi-hub auto-shifter .... sent the hub to dynojet to see if it bad ....can't get a steady blip signal for rpm settings ..the hubs signals all over the rpm range making it useless for a window switch also .... if dynojet says hub good then other than map switching its useless ,,, i'll know more in a few days
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ghostman
Expert Class
Posts: 456
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posted January 22, 2008 06:49 AM
Ok fellas, Help me out here. What's the difference between our stock clutch and a lockup clutch?
What's the difference between "2 Stage" and "Multi-Stage?
____________
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Halvefast
Zone Head
Posts: 806
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posted January 22, 2008 06:58 AM
I wouldn't rely on the hub to auto engage the right map if I were you,
plus at your size and the upgrades you have plus N2O you will be better
served with the lock-up.
I guess if you don't carry a laptop to the track, the hub would be neccesary,
but hell these days someone always has one, just keep a copy of your maps
on a flash drive so you can change it as you need.
Just my take!
____________
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KZScott
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high on speed
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posted January 22, 2008 08:37 AM
PM NOX about tuning a lock up. when its setup right, you basically just let the lever out as fast as possible, and the lock up will slip the clutch the same amount every time. makes you deadly consistant and can get you really good 60' times. he was getting into the low 1.3s with bars, and around 1.40 with no bars at 68 inches with a stock motor 12
____________
01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
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dubious
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Posts: 8442
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posted January 22, 2008 09:15 AM
Edited By: dubious on 22 Jan 2008 12:29
Some insight to my findings / shortcomings with the hub map switch, and muzzy dry nitrous manifold...
http://www.zx14ninja.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=9045
I would trust the hub to switch maps, by verifying it with the LCD panel (has an indicator), but do not advise changing maps simultaneous with activation of nitrous solenoid.
I don't think the map switches as fast as the solenoid opens... which creates a lean condition momentarilly...
If you use the map switch activation with the toggled power switch, rather than solenoid switch, you would be ok.
and more yet on the poor design of the muzzy nitrous header..
http://www.bikeland.org/board/viewthread.php?FID=27&TID=36623&set_time=1201022584
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dubious
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Needs more time to ride!
Posts: 8442
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posted January 22, 2008 11:40 AM
I want to validate that I am not picking on Mr muzzy.
Any dry kit has its shortcoming, precise nozzle placement being the 1st one that needs to be addressed for reliable longevity.
Unfortuantely everyone is crudely dumping nitrous into the airbox and hoping for the best.
If your gonna run dry, ensure you physically are delivering nitrous in equal quantities to each cylinder, through each velocity stack, or intake port individually.
Then consider ignition timing, fuel, and proper a/f ratio's
____________
natural selection.....
destiny will overcome intervention.
Some are not worthy of the effort.
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BlackMagic14
Needs a job
Posts: 2058
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posted January 22, 2008 11:40 AM
So it sounds like everyone is thinking the Lock up. How hard are they to set up??
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dubious
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posted January 22, 2008 11:47 AM
http://secure.mycart.net/catalogs/catalog.asp?prodid=5024653&showprevnext=1
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natural selection.....
destiny will overcome intervention.
Some are not worthy of the effort.
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hotrod360
Novice Class
Posts: 63
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posted January 23, 2008 02:18 AM
ok the 2 stage lockup there is nothing to set up you put it in and forget about it... the tuning comes in on the multi-stg because it acts like a progressive box it will let the clutch slip a lil and then catch and go basically just dump the clutch lever, this is what you need i would not go with a 2stg lockup... and FYI slider clutches VS a very good rider on handclutch could actually slow you done on the big end but most of the times it helps.
2-stage lock up is designed to increase clutch clamping force as quickly as possible. You will see additional clamping force from every lock up arm about 10-15 ft from the starting line. This allows maximum lock up very quickly. Making it a good choice for a bike that is 68" wheelbase or longer w/o using a bar or a bike with slick and bar where a wheelie isn't a concern
Multi-Stage lock up units are designed to apply additional clutch clamping force in a more progressive manner than the 2-stage. In the case of the Hayabusa, 3 arms will start to apply about 15-20 ft from the starting line, further down track the remaining 3 arms apply additional clamping force to prevent clutch slippage on the top end. This makes the Multi-Stage lock up an excellent choice for turbocharged applications. Short wheelbase bikes will also benefit from the progressive application of force in that, the rider can tune the lock up to apply later in the run to alleviate a wheelie or tire spin condition, while still maintaining full lock up on the top end of the track.
Slider clutches are for the track only dragbike. These units completely eliminate the clutch lever. Engagement and disengagement are controlled totally by engine RPM, making them unsuitable for street use. Using centrifugal force to engage the clutch and eliminating the need for the rider to release the clutch lever results in lower more consistent 60' times, lower ET's than lever clutch equipped bikes and a smoother launch. The MTC slider is suitable for use in any length bike, with or without wheelie bars
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KZScott
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high on speed
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posted January 23, 2008 08:20 AM
you can tune the low end of a 2 stage too. you actually use less than stock spring pressure in a lot of cases and use the weights to do the work. yes a lot of guys need a lock up once they start making a lot of hp, as HD springs wont cut it. but you can tune the low end of it too. no more slipping the clutch by hand, just throw out the lever as fast as you can and the lock up slips it the right amount(once tuned) every time
read some of NOX's posts in the drag bike zone
____________
01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
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BlackMagic14
Needs a job
Posts: 2058
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posted January 23, 2008 03:37 PM
I decied to go with a Velocity arm instead of either one!! I just got tired of having a fast bike with bolt on extensions!!! and the more power I get the more worried I became about those bolt ons with me weighing almost 300 pounds
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mark524
Expert Class
Posts: 297
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posted January 23, 2008 06:45 PM
whats the details and price on the velocity arm? I'm in the same boat at 285 with bolt ons.
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BlackMagic14
Needs a job
Posts: 2058
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posted January 23, 2008 07:40 PM
I got it at dealer cost but they are very affordable arms for what they are I recommend them highly
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zxbob
Pro
Posts: 1692
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posted January 23, 2008 08:45 PM
quote:
whats the details and price on the velocity arm? I'm in the same boat at 285 with bolt ons.
285 lbs ?
I dont think you mean HP.
Bob
____________
Good parts aint cheap and cheap parts aint good !
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BlackMagic14
Needs a job
Posts: 2058
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posted January 23, 2008 10:31 PM
abviously he wasnt talking horsepower Bob LOL I am not sure what the retail is on the arm but I know they are some af the less expensive arms you can get and damn good arms from what I have heard. I went with a 68in max wheelbase with 6 inches of adjustment with a bottle bracket air tank a chin gaurd powder coated black for quite a bit less then 1000 dollars But my bike was used in the machining of some of the components of their 14 arms so I got a BIG discount. RPM Cycle Performance the shop that does all my work does all the CNC work for Velocity.
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