starchild
Expert Class
Posts: 366
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posted November 27, 2007 07:29 PM
lock ups
trying to get some opinions on the best lock up clutches posted this on another forum and got no advice at all, so here we go 2006 zx14 want to use a 2 stage who makes the best clutches mtc,muzzy or other? never ran a lock up on the 12, looking for the best for the 14
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jay
  
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BlackMagic14
Needs a job
Posts: 2058
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posted November 27, 2007 08:01 PM
MTC or if you dont mind spending the money get a Gann clutch
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ZXLNT
Needs a job
Kawpuke Extraordinare
Posts: 2853
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posted November 28, 2007 03:37 AM
bring your wallet.
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jarhead
Expert Class
Posts: 418
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posted November 28, 2007 05:18 AM
I have ran both MTC and Muzzy and both worked great. I ran an MTC slider in the drag bike and it was a work of art and worth every penny. I think you would be happy with either. You may want to do some checking into what istallation entails with the two side by side. Muzzy lock up on my ZX10 involved converting most of the stock parts over where the MTC may just be bolt on and go. Hope this helps.
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starchild
Expert Class
Posts: 366
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posted November 28, 2007 05:56 AM
thanks gentlemen your opinions are appreciated i'm leaning towards mtc there lock up seems to be less complicated and they have the reputation to back there products up. also most guys i see run mtc, they have a 2 stage for under 400.00 and for a guy who has never used a lock up seems to be a good place to start.
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jay
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BlackMagic14
Needs a job
Posts: 2058
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posted November 28, 2007 07:31 AM
Let me ask you this how much do you weigh and what mods have you done to your bike!!! Lock ups are by no means a necessary on most bikes especially with a clutch like the 14 has. I know several guys that have slowed down with a lock up and they are extremely difficult to set up PROPERLY!
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bigdtd
Needs a job
Interceptors
Posts: 4209
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posted November 28, 2007 08:03 AM
they have multiple brands available on schnitz.com fyi
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2006 Black ZX-14,6 inches over,16/42, flies out,BMC Street Filter,Brock's Street Meg,Brock's Radial Mount Strap,PClll with Race map,Dynojet LCD w/Techmount, ZX-14 fender eliminator,Pilot Power2CTs,Speedohealer,Pazzo Levers,Cox Radiator Guard, Garmin Nuvi 265WT
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flatoutbu
Pro
Posts: 1054
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posted November 28, 2007 09:42 AM
As far as tuning it was a nightmare this year with the MTC lock-up i had. The bike had a bad bog in it at the top of first.....which i thought was from tuning, turns out it was doing it's job and the bike didnt have the power to pull my fat ass at the top of first. I could have added more gear but my track is not know'n for excellent traction. I pulled it out at the end of the year and started picking up my times again. I'm going to put it back in next year because i'm hitting it with juice. The only problem i had with the lock-up it's self was they install little hardened plates on the pressure plates....their just pressed in there and any other time the fingers hold pressure against them. I pulled my clutch apart one day and seen one missing......i found it in the pick-up!
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06 Blue 14
9.008 at 153mph @ 195 suited
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zxbob
Pro
Posts: 1692
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posted November 28, 2007 11:37 AM
Here is a post I did on the other board.
O.K. .... I got her all back togather tonite.
I guess to start on the re-assembly you need to be aware that there are
3 different type friction plates in our bikes. The bottom right is the very
first one to go back into the basket. The top center is the very last plate,
installed, and the bottom left being the "center plates"
When re-installing the steel plates, pay attension to the outter edge. If you
run your over the edge you'll find a "sharp" edge and a "rounded" edge.
The steel plates must be installed with the rounded edge toward the back
of the clutch basket.
Once your clear on the 3 different style friction plates, and you have
determined the rounded edge of the steel plates, your ready to begin
your re-installation.
Before you start putting your new friction plates back into the clutch
basket, you must first soak your friction plates in oil.
After installing all the friction and steel plates, be sure you have the very
last friction plate "clocked' properly - this "last plate" does not line up
with the rest of the plates in the basket.
Now your pressure plate can be re-installed.
Make sure to use an anti-size on the bolts thru the pressure plate and
torque to 8 ft lbs.
Now im going a little farther with the 2 stage lock-up. At this point im
going to install the lock-up head.
There are no more added steps here except torqueing down the lock-up
head and checking for proper clearence.
The lock-up requires .090 to .100 clearence between the "arms" and
the pressure plate.
I know this is getting long ...... but hang in there im allmost done.
The lock up has a modified outter cover - it came bare so I had to install
a new oil site glass. I recommend you just buy a new one ... dont try and
take the old one out and re-use it.
Apply a little motor oil around the outter edge of the new site glass, find
a socket the has the same O.D. of the site window and simply press it
in ....... it goes in very easy.
Now just clean up old gaskets ....... install new gasket - and ride !
Bob
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Good parts aint cheap and cheap parts aint good !
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starchild
Expert Class
Posts: 366
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posted November 28, 2007 01:01 PM
thank you for the pics and all the suggestions,one question i just bought a clutch pack from schnits fibers and steels but i did not notice 3 diffrent fibers one being very obvious from the rest and of course that is the first one to go in(larger diameter) but not three.
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jay
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zxbob
Pro
Posts: 1692
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posted November 28, 2007 03:50 PM
By my pics ...... which one is missing ?
the very outter plate ?
Bob
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Good parts aint cheap and cheap parts aint good !
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starchild
Expert Class
Posts: 366
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posted November 28, 2007 04:10 PM
i'm refering to your account of frictions , you mentioned 3 diffrent types for the 14 i thought you meant 3 diffrent sized frictions in each clutch pack
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jay
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zxbob
Pro
Posts: 1692
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posted November 28, 2007 06:02 PM
You should have (1) friction plate like the bottom right of the pic that goes in first.
You should have (1) friction plate like the top center in my pick that goes in last. (off set)
You should have (8) friction plates like the bottom left in my pic. (in between)
Bob
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Good parts aint cheap and cheap parts aint good !
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bigdtd
Needs a job
Interceptors
Posts: 4209
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posted November 28, 2007 07:03 PM
very informative bob
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2006 Black ZX-14,6 inches over,16/42, flies out,BMC Street Filter,Brock's Street Meg,Brock's Radial Mount Strap,PClll with Race map,Dynojet LCD w/Techmount, ZX-14 fender eliminator,Pilot Power2CTs,Speedohealer,Pazzo Levers,Cox Radiator Guard, Garmin Nuvi 265WT
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starchild
Expert Class
Posts: 366
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posted November 30, 2007 02:07 PM
hey bob thanks again for the help, did find the friction plate you spoke of. manual say s to put it in the middle of the pack. my question though is after putting the lock up in did your clutch seem soft ? did you have to bleed the clutch? my bike will move as the clutch leaves the bar , no play at all have not notice air in the line clutch seem spongy,added a new clutch pack stack height was in tolerance lost first hydraulic clutch
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jay
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zxbob
Pro
Posts: 1692
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posted November 30, 2007 02:34 PM
I should have started you here ...... I had heavy duty springs in my clutch prior to the
lock up. I went back to stock when I installed the lock-up. (so it is "softer" than before)
No bleeding was needed - see how I help the master cyl. together during the job.
Try adjusting your thumb-wheel after the new clutch is installed. Also if your steel plates
are warped .... it will start to grab to soon.
I started by removing the clutch master at the countershaft cover. I find
that a small set of vise grips holds it together so you dont hyper-extend
the piston and have to fart around re-setting it in the bore.
Here is the start of the dissasembly thru the removal of the friction and
metal plates. I was absolutly shocked that there was no blueing at all on
any of the steel plates.
To get all the plates out you will definetly want to have a set of picks
to be able to reach into the basket and get the plates out.
Tomarrow when I get home from work i'll put it back together and post
up the re-installation pics and tips. If you've done a clutch before, you
know its not a difficult job .... If you have never done one before, I hope
this helps you out.
Bob
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Good parts aint cheap and cheap parts aint good !
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starchild
Expert Class
Posts: 366
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posted November 30, 2007 02:51 PM
thanks again i have done a few on my 12 but i seem to have some difficulty, 1 i did not remove the master and had difficulty with the shaft i 'll hold off until i hear from you thanks bob
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jay
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zxbob
Pro
Posts: 1692
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posted November 30, 2007 02:59 PM
quote:
thanks again i have done a few on my 12 but i seem to have some difficulty, 1 i did not remove the master and had difficulty with the shaft i 'll hold off until i hear from you thanks bob
My post says clutch master ......... it should say clutch slave (in the pic)
dont want to confuse people.
Bob
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Good parts aint cheap and cheap parts aint good !
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fastest-14
Expert Class
Fastest -14
Posts: 354
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posted November 30, 2007 06:57 PM
Very informative. Great information!
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starchild
Expert Class
Posts: 366
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posted December 02, 2007 09:29 AM
hey bob again i 'd like to thank you for your time and advice,did not remove the slave cylinder i did end up bleeding it though. got my clutch back it feels good have all the adjustments also one question as for the clearance of the lock up how much did you have between the lock up and the hub i'm .117 i know it calls for .100 to .125. going to remove my case cover again to make sure i have no contact from lock up to case cover.
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jay
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bigdtd
Needs a job
Interceptors
Posts: 4209
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posted December 02, 2007 09:38 AM
great post!
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2006 Black ZX-14,6 inches over,16/42, flies out,BMC Street Filter,Brock's Street Meg,Brock's Radial Mount Strap,PClll with Race map,Dynojet LCD w/Techmount, ZX-14 fender eliminator,Pilot Power2CTs,Speedohealer,Pazzo Levers,Cox Radiator Guard, Garmin Nuvi 265WT
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zxbob
Pro
Posts: 1692
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posted December 02, 2007 10:48 AM
quote:
hey bob again i 'd like to thank you for your time and advice,did not remove the slave cylinder i did end up bleeding it though. got my clutch back it feels good have all the adjustments also one question as for the clearance of the lock up how much did you have between the lock up and the hub i'm .117 i know it calls for .100 to .125. going to remove my case cover again to make sure i have no contact from lock up to case cover.
Hey Jay ........
Your .117 is perfect - save your self some time on removing that cover to inspect
for something hitting !
If it was ..... you'd allready know it . 
Bob
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Good parts aint cheap and cheap parts aint good !
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zxbob
Pro
Posts: 1692
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posted December 05, 2007 06:13 PM
Any ride report yet ?
Bob
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Good parts aint cheap and cheap parts aint good !
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starchild
Expert Class
Posts: 366
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posted December 05, 2007 07:14 PM
hey bob no real riding up here too cold and no plate on it did take a quick spin in the school yard next door too little room and tire spun too much felt good but i just bought the 14 and only raced it twice at the track not much seat time so i'm not sure of the diffrence with the lock up yet cant wait til april thanks for your help
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jay
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starchild
Expert Class
Posts: 366
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posted December 05, 2007 07:15 PM
hey bob no real riding up here too cold and no plate on it did take a quick spin in the school yard next door too little room and tire spun too much felt good but i just bought the 14 and only raced it twice at the track not much seat time so i'm not sure of the diffrence with the lock up yet cant wait til april thanks for your help
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jay
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