Y2KZX12R
Needs a job
CompetitionCNC.com
Posts: 3762
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posted January 28, 2008 09:14 AM
quote:
i called and talked with bryan and he said that right now it looks like 203hp with stock cams is what yall are getting
Yea, thats where we are at right now. Were going to try some different cam timings.
But that may be all that the stock cams will devliver for HP.
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Y2KZX12R
CompetitionCNC.com
   
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Nelson Taylor
Zone Head
Posts: 927
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posted January 28, 2008 09:17 AM
210hp with stock pistons and cams would be great.
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Best #'s
1.54
4.03
6.02 @ 121mph
(Stock Wheelbase) 2006 ZX14
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larryc
Novice Class
Posts: 43
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posted January 28, 2008 12:35 PM
quote:
A stock 14 head flow numbers are (220 intake) and (125 exhaust)
Like I said before, it's how the designer configured the ports and how the 14 makes power.
Flow numbers don't mean anything.
Brock proved the that both bikes are around the same: Richard ran 8:99 and Chip ran a 9:00. 1 shot, 1 kill, same time, same condiditons........
It's the entire build, not just the flow numbers of the head
Lot of truth in that last statement. It is the total package that makes or breaks it. Still, the flow numbers are not completely meaningless. CFM & FPS, combined with the behavior of the port are all important. Some motors like big flow numbers, some like fast ports....it takes time to sort out what works for any given engine package.
I've seen heads that were reduction ported, pick up CFM and Velocity but the bike slowed down! People don't always realize that when you change one thing, it affects several others. Only time & testing prove the formula to be correct.
Jim's using his "head"....no pun intended! Give 'em some time, he'll deliver something worth waiting for..
JMO
Larry C
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mikebar4
Expert Class
Posts: 178
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posted February 05, 2008 06:41 PM
has anyone tried one of these yet?? or do i have to be the first.... 205 hp with stock cams.... im in....
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cajunboyz
Zone Head
Posts: 702
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posted February 06, 2008 05:04 AM
quote:
has anyone tried one of these yet?? or do i have to be the first.... 205 hp with stock cams.... im in....
Was this 205 with pump gas??
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"Cajun Boyz with Bad Ass Toys"
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mikebar4
Expert Class
Posts: 178
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posted February 06, 2008 03:25 PM
i would think that he didnt dyno it with pump gas... 205 hp with stock cams is pretty high, so i would guess that he used u4 , mr9, or some other race fuel
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BlackMagic14
Needs a job
Posts: 2058
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posted February 06, 2008 04:00 PM
My bike has been between 205 and 212 on most dynos with pump gas. Carpenter racing head stock cams but my head was milled 20thousandths to bump up the compression and I am not sure if they are milling the head on their package.
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Steve at Quantum
Parking Attendant
Posts: 3
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posted February 07, 2008 03:33 PM
 Edited By: Steve at Quantum on 7 Feb 2008 15:47
We have done a number of ZX14 Super Sport packages and virtually all of the motors have tested around 202 to 203 plus or minus. We have made subtle changes to cam timing and adjusted other variables yet peak power remains in a narrow band.
While this is somewhat frustrating for those involved, it is not completely surprising. In our initial discovery and in our early work with JIm we quickly realized we were working with a different animal. While estimated stock port speeds are virtually identical to those of the Hayabusa, the flow profile is noticeably different because of the underlying design: Kawasaki went out of their way to promote in cylinder motion in the form of tumble to promote combustion efficiency.
When looking down the port, it is apparent flow is being directed across the top half of the valve to give rise to the tumble motion; the design goal is not to provide even flow coverage across the entire valve. For this reason, in a running engine with pulsing wet flow it is challenging to translate the increases in flow bench CFM into large increases in horsepower. We see improvements but the gains are not commensurate with the gains on the bench.
We will continue to collaborate with Jim until we are satisfied that we have done everything we can to maximize the performance of the ZX14 using stock components; the next step will be to make significant changes to cam timing to take full advantage of increased flow and minimize over-scavenging. Thereafter we will probably spend some time developing proprietary camshafts to work specifically with Jim's design.
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Quantum Motorsports
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zx14mike
Zone Head
Posts: 891
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posted February 07, 2008 07:50 PM
Steve, i know its a difficult and highly speculative question...........but could you give a ballpark estimate of what you would expect to gain with replacing the camshafts with ones specifically matched to the head porting????
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BlackMagic14
Needs a job
Posts: 2058
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posted February 07, 2008 09:52 PM
I was told by Bob Carpenter that cams would add around 5-7 HP I think that is what he said I may have misunderstood. (I am not trying to pump Bob C on this thread by the way just stating my experience) ANYTHING QUANTUM does is gonna be great!!!!! hell they got Brock for a tuner how can you go wrong
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Steve at Quantum
Parking Attendant
Posts: 3
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posted February 08, 2008 08:00 AM
Mike, that is a tough question only because our experience with larger camshafts in the ZX14 has been in the context of larger displacement builds such as 1417's which dyno between 217 and 220. I should also note that when we dyno a bike/engine we typically use STD reference conditions and an oxygenated fuel which is becoming the norm.
With that said, my hunch would be that correctly designed aftermarket camshafts in conjunction with a ported head would yield 4 to 7 more HP than stock cams using the same ported head. I am not convinced , however, that those cams exist as the characteristics of the head will demand a higher lift intake with moderate duration........meaning fairly aggressive lift/close profiles.
I wish our Kawasaki database were larger...........and if it were , I would be able to give more insight and supporting data. It will grow, though, as the ZX14 is one of our primary development platforms.
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Quantum Motorsports
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BlackMagic14
Needs a job
Posts: 2058
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posted February 08, 2008 02:25 PM
Steve do you work with Bryan??
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Quantum Motorsports
Parking Attendant
Posts: 3
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posted February 09, 2008 07:41 AM
Yes, Steve is my partner in crime......
We are working very hard with Jim to give evryone the best product we can. The ZX-14 head is much more difficult to work with than any of the other heads we have worked on. I am anxious to try some custom cam grinds with this combination.
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