reward69
Expert Class
Posts: 101
|
posted November 21, 2007 10:47 AM
Gearing
What is the best gearing for all around gearing for the 14. I will make an occassional trip the strip and the occassional 100 or so mile road trip (this is long for me). My busa I went one up in the rear and was a good improvement.
I was thinking of going one down up front to a 16 tooth, what you guys think??
  
|
MasterBlaster
Expert Class
Posts: 297
|
posted November 21, 2007 11:21 AM
Thats what I have, works super both around town and on the road. One trip to the Smokies I was doing 500 mile days for about a week and loved the performance. I dont race mine but do play with my Busa riding Bud a lot, and we do the occasional 250-300 mile run.
|
Sticks_n_Stones
Needs a job
Posts: 3930
|
posted November 21, 2007 11:31 AM
On the same note fellas, I weigh over 300 pounds and was wondering what kinda gearing I would need to make my 14 pull like a stock 14 with a 200 pound rider? I'm thinking 1 down and 1 or 2 up. Any ideas? Oh yeah, it'll be BMC or K&N filter,flies out and PC III next spring- and I have Two Brothers exhaust already. I just want to ensure I can beat any near stock Busa in a roll on. (Yeah, I know the 08 will still take me Im sure lol)
____________
'06 zx14
Muzzy M10/M14
PCIII w/ Muzzy map
Flies out K&N in!
bits n pieces...
|
Tool Man
Needs a job
Posts: 4493
|
posted November 21, 2007 11:36 AM
Most guys run anywhere between 16/43(low) to 18/41,(high)
I run 17/43 now and have run 16/43 in the past. Can you say wheelie 
!6/41 will work good for most kinds of riding Imo.
____________
The banks are failing..
The banks are failing...
Invest in Ammo
|
dubious
Needs a life
Needs more time to ride!
Posts: 8442
|
posted November 21, 2007 12:00 PM
 Edited By: dubious on 21 Nov 2007 12:10
If you want to beat an older busa..., stock zx14, or be equal with an equally modded zx14 and 200lb rider...
zx14 vs zx14 all other things being equal...
here is how the weight vs mechanical advantage plays out:
bike + 200lb guy = +/- 700lbs
bike + 300lb guy= +/- 800lbs
he weighs 7/8 combined what you do combined.
you need to gear your bike approximately 7/8 what his is to have equal accelleration.
7/8 = 0.875
17-41 gears = 2.412
2.412 x 0.875 = 2.756
17 x 0.875 (7/8) = 14.9
41 divided by 0.875 = 47
15-42= 2.800
17-47= 2.764
16-44= 2.750
any of these combo's is what you are after " IF" he has stock gears!
Don't forget to tuck ... LOL
300 lbs +, big dood!
jeesh ..... have you done the springs yet?
____________
natural selection.....
destiny will overcome intervention.
Some are not worthy of the effort.
|
serius blk
Zone Head
Posts: 543
|
posted November 21, 2007 02:06 PM
mine is stretched 6over with the heavy duty spring and 16/43 gearing. Im 250 and i ride l 2- 300 miles on it and can take it to the track. Believe me with 16/43 if have pulled away from guys on busa on the top end. I also have a speedhealer so the governor wont kick in. This is the best gearing in my opinion. That is for use bigger guys
|
nightmare
Pro
ACP Racing
Posts: 1797
|
posted November 21, 2007 03:01 PM
quote:
If you want to beat an older busa..., stock zx14, or be equal with an equally modded zx14 and 200lb rider...
zx14 vs zx14 all other things being equal...
here is how the weight vs mechanical advantage plays out:
bike + 200lb guy = +/- 700lbs
bike + 300lb guy= +/- 800lbs
he weighs 7/8 combined what you do combined.
you need to gear your bike approximately 7/8 what his is to have equal accelleration.
7/8 = 0.875
17-41 gears = 2.412
2.412 x 0.875 = 2.756
17 x 0.875 (7/8) = 14.9
41 divided by 0.875 = 47
15-42= 2.800
17-47= 2.764
16-44= 2.750
any of these combo's is what you are after " IF" he has stock gears!
Don't forget to tuck ... LOL
300 lbs +, big dood!
jeesh ..... have you done the springs yet?
Are you some kind of genius or math professor?
____________
2006 ZX14 Ninja "SWINE FLU"
60ft 1.23
8th Mile 5.16
ACP Racing
|
Tool man
Needs a job
Posts: 4493
|
posted November 21, 2007 03:59 PM
quote:
quote:
If you want to beat an older busa..., stock zx14, or be equal with an equally modded zx14 and 200lb rider...
zx14 vs zx14 all other things being equal...
here is how the weight vs mechanical advantage plays out:
bike + 200lb guy = +/- 700lbs
bike + 300lb guy= +/- 800lbs
he weighs 7/8 combined what you do combined.
you need to gear your bike approximately 7/8 what his is to have equal accelleration.
7/8 = 0.875
17-41 gears = 2.412
2.412 x 0.875 = 2.756
17 x 0.875 (7/8) = 14.9
41 divided by 0.875 = 47
15-42= 2.800
17-47= 2.764
16-44= 2.750
any of these combo's is what you are after " IF" he has stock gears!
Don't forget to tuck ... LOL
300 lbs +, big dood!
jeesh ..... have you done the springs yet?
Are you some kind of genius or math professor?
No....He just paid attention in school 
____________
The banks are failing..
The banks are failing...
Invest in Ammo
|
Sticks_n_Stones
Needs a job
Posts: 3930
|
posted November 21, 2007 05:24 PM
Yeah honestly I didnt feel like doing the math, but I was thinking in the range of 16/44 already. Serious gearing just to "even it up". And yes, BTW, I did the springs with Racetec springs suited for a 300 pound rider. Man, thats by far the best mod I've done to the bike! COMPLETELY changed the character of it. I've done springs on alot of bikes and it seems to have made the most difference on the 14 since it's a wallowing pig.
Also, my friend who weighs 190 rode it and was ecstatic about the handling now. He was dogging it saying how fat it felt in the corners until now lol. He actually compared it directly to his '97 Gixxer 1000 handling wise, but with better brakes. Anyways I highly recommend it to everyone as a basic mod to do asap. Best part is, the Racetec's (all I've ever used) dont ride ruff under normal conditions. Honestly feel like "the way the factory should have done it".
____________
'06 zx14
Muzzy M10/M14
PCIII w/ Muzzy map
Flies out K&N in!
bits n pieces...
|
mark524
Expert Class
Posts: 297
|
posted November 21, 2007 05:58 PM
i'm around 300, and mostly drag race, but still ride the street a little. I've run my best times at the track on motor with 16/46. it's extended about 6-7 inches though. If you're stock wheelbase, I would say just go down 1 in the front.
i tried the racetec spring and it still was too soft with the bike lowered. I completely destroyed the inner fender from launches at the track. for the strip, especially for heavy guys, a straight link with stock spring is the way to go.
|
redsnake2
Novice Class
Posts: 73
|
posted November 21, 2007 07:16 PM
Thanks guys cause I'm also a 300lbs dude at 6'6" .. Now will this effect my top end? Cause I still want to hit 186 mph every blue moon..
|
shane661
Needs a life
Posts: 11494
|
posted November 21, 2007 07:20 PM
I found that +4 overall was more than enough to overcome 100 lbs. difference, on my 12R.
|
fastestbusaaround
Needs a life
I eat Fish...
Posts: 7889
|
posted November 21, 2007 07:28 PM
16/43's won't get you to 186. You'd need an S/H and at that, I doubt you'd see 186, but maybe mid 170's...not sure. I only get 168 indicated on GPS, but I don't use an S/H either.
____________
FYYFF!!!
|
ninja14
Pro
Posts: 1136
|
posted November 21, 2007 10:34 PM
quote:
16/43's won't get you to 186. You'd need an S/H and at that, I doubt you'd see 186, but maybe mid 170's...not sure. I only get 168 indicated on GPS, but I don't use an S/H either.
Correct.....
I have 16/43 and just at redline in 6th the speedo shows aprox 185 (speedohealer) So actual w/ the 16/43 is mid 170's.
I don't ride top end much so the 16/43 is good all-around - power wheelie at any point in1st and not too buzzy for moderate highway sprints. I can swap the rear back to the stock 41 in minutes for a tour.
I'm 190lbs in street clothes.
____________
2006 Turbo ZX-14.
2005 V-max 20th Anniv.
|
dubious
Needs a life
Needs more time to ride!
Posts: 8442
|
posted November 22, 2007 06:58 PM
Edited By: dubious on 22 Nov 2007 19:00
theoretically stock gearing is good for 191 mph, if the speedlimiter is bypassed.
16/43 with speedo calibrated will deliver theoretical 171 mph at redline.
want the math? or will you take my word? 
No definately not genius, not a mathematician either...
Just a diehard enthusiast!
____________
natural selection.....
destiny will overcome intervention.
Some are not worthy of the effort.
|
Sticks_n_Stones
Needs a job
Posts: 3930
|
posted November 26, 2007 07:12 AM
quote:
i'm around 300,...
i tried the racetec spring and it still was too soft with the bike lowered. I completely destroyed the inner fender from launches at the track. for the strip, especially for heavy guys, a straight link with stock spring is the way to go.
You obviously didnt call them directly and tell them your weight did you?? The spring I recieved is amazingly stiffer than the stock softy, so how can the stock one be better at keeping you from squatting so hard you hit the inner fender? granted, if you go too stiff you might cause a loss of traction when you hit a bump but the Racetec's are no where near that stiff. They honestly feel a bit like a progressive spring, even though thats not what i ordered. Just make sure to tell them your exact rider weight (they know the bike weight) and dont lie. My spring they said is 2 steps heavier than the normal Racetec zx14 spring, so it matters. I'm wishing I had done my TL1000R now... but I had forgotten how big a difference proper springs make on a bike!
____________
'06 zx14
Muzzy M10/M14
PCIII w/ Muzzy map
Flies out K&N in!
bits n pieces...
|
kspz3
Expert Class
Posts: 334
|
posted November 26, 2007 07:59 AM
quote:
theoretically stock gearing is good for 191 mph, if the speedlimiter is bypassed.
16/43 with speedo calibrated will deliver theoretical 171 mph at redline.
want the math? or will you take my word?
No definately not genius, not a mathematician either...
Just a diehard enthusiast!
Man o man - great story but your math is flawed - with the exception of the first few feet of the race.... I am referring to your previous long show the work gear analysis - you can double your gear ratio - but there is no way to get a 300lb guy down the track in the same time you get a 150 lb guy..... also stock gearing is good for 198.5 or so..... depending upon how much tread is on the tire......
|
Sticks_n_Stones
Needs a job
Posts: 3930
|
posted November 26, 2007 08:49 AM
quote:
Man o man - great story but your math is flawed - with the exception of the first few feet of the race.... I am referring to your previous long show the work gear analysis - you can double your gear ratio - but there is no way to get a 300lb guy down the track in the same time you get a 150 lb guy..... also stock gearing is good for 198.5 or so..... depending upon how much tread is on the tire......
Man you're wrong about the gearing not being able to compensate for weight. I've seen it happen way too many times with cars and bikes. Hell, I watched a near stock Blackbird (full muzzy with PC II and couple other tweaks) beat my friends 202 rwhp ZX12 from a roll to 150mph when he went down 1 and up 3. He went from getting owned bad to dominating below 120 or so and keeping him off thru the 1/4 mile. (Results were even worse on the 12 from a start so they settled on a roll.) So simple math says: 1/7th more hp to equal 1/7th more weight = very roughly 25hp. Gearing can make up that amount easily considering how tall the 14 is geared to begin with, but of course top end will suffer. I can live with "only" being able to hit low 170's. Until I get enough oomph to hit the 200 mph mark then gearing will change again
____________
'06 zx14
Muzzy M10/M14
PCIII w/ Muzzy map
Flies out K&N in!
bits n pieces...
|
kspz3
Expert Class
Posts: 334
|
posted November 26, 2007 09:13 AM
Sticks....
Here is a site with a very good simulator - you can do the math and paly with weight and final gear ratios, etc. if you set it up properly - then it is a very good modeling tool - Have some fun....
BTW what was the roll on - a high gear thing...... there is an issue with your comparison - that is not making sense - a near stocc xxx is around 140 to 150 HP and it will not out accelerate 202 without some major quirk.... 202 HP can do 0 to 150 in a quarter mile - from dead stop with a big rider..... Blackbird is going to take much, much longer to get there - 202 HP will get you to 200 in a mile 140 HP will maybe post 170. Your scenerio is not making sense..... Lower gearing only really improves the launch - and consequently the ET is lower...... but acceleration throughout the remainder of the ride is similar - that is why I have done 150.45 MPH in 9.84 with 1.88 60' times - I have done 149.5 in the 10s - I am geared through the roof for landspeed - 18-38. - My fifth will go faster than stock 6th.
http://www.nightrider.com/biketech/accel_sim1.htm
|
zx14mike
Zone Head
Posts: 891
|
posted November 26, 2007 09:51 AM
I'm geared 16/42 and I love it, its great for the street or the strip!
|
Sticks_n_Stones
Needs a job
Posts: 3930
|
posted November 26, 2007 10:09 AM
Just stating the facts, and my friends ZX12 was built by Muzzy himself (not his shop, but he himself did it) since my friend also happens to be friends with ?Rob? himself. That bike ate up and spit out any number of stock and modded Busa's, too. There roll on was first gear 15mph I believe and yes, he did pull on him after about 120 he said, but it wasnt until somewhere north of 150 that he caught him. All from a gear change. The guy on the honda weighed probably 30 pounds less, though. My friends 12 was geared to do 200mph, also.
On another note, I ran a best of 10.4 in the 1/4 with my TL1000R and never did get the launches right (1.8 sec 60 foot) only after I went down 1 up 2. Before that? hell I didnt even want to know how slow it was, since stock the best I read about was a 10.5 with a light ass rider on it AND with Muzzy slip-ons on a otherwise stock bike.
You are right that steeper gears mostly help with the first half of the track, but gearing IS torque multiplication, right? Which is an advantage you lose the higher the gear you are in.
Anyone here to back up what I'm saying by posting there before and after mph from just a sprocket change? I'm guestimating that there is a couple mph gain possible in the 1/4 IF they can launch it properly with the extra low-end grunt. Been wrong before... but have built alot of race cars too and seen the huge difference gearing can make there.
____________
'06 zx14
Muzzy M10/M14
PCIII w/ Muzzy map
Flies out K&N in!
bits n pieces...
|
Tool Man
Needs a job
Posts: 4493
|
posted November 26, 2007 10:46 AM
Gearing does make a huge differance. I am geared 16/43, the biggest problem I have now is keeping the front wheel on the ground...As far as times in the 1/4, I do not do enough DR to know for sure. But I damn sure pull a few guys I did not before.
____________
The banks are failing..
The banks are failing...
Invest in Ammo
|
BlackMagic14
Needs a job
Posts: 2058
|
posted November 26, 2007 11:42 AM
I am 280 and I use 16/44 it is perfect! I have a 750 pound spring on the back the stock is a 500. And whoever said that gearing can compensate for weight difference is out of their mind let me give you an example... Smokin runs 8.70's on motor on his bike you put him on my bike with a 130 pound weight vest he would not get anywhere near 8.70's and I have motor work done to my bike... gearing does not take into account wind resistance from a larger mass not to mention that no matter what the gearing it takes more RPM to move more mass at the smae speed over the same distance the hearing helps to get that RPM up quicker
|
zx14mike
Zone Head
Posts: 891
|
posted November 26, 2007 11:52 AM
BlackMagic, how does your bike run with the ported head?, did you lose a lot of lowend and midrange, Did you gain a lot of RPMs and were the gains limited to just peak revs?
|
Sticks_n_Stones
Needs a job
Posts: 3930
|
posted November 26, 2007 02:11 PM
whoa fellas hold on here! I was only talking about making my bike run with a bone stock 14 with a 100 pound lighter rider!! I never intended for it to compare to built bikes like yours. Just wild ass guessing, but I would assume to need about 75 horses + more than Smokin has on his bike to match his times (on the HUGE assumption I could ever match his skill). This thread has gone a bit off course
____________
'06 zx14
Muzzy M10/M14
PCIII w/ Muzzy map
Flies out K&N in!
bits n pieces...
|
|
|
HOME
NEW TOPIC