smokinzx14
Needs a life
Posts: 10197
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posted November 19, 2007 10:10 AM
Well one thing for sure is the ram air is working on a zx14 .. One way to test this is hook a Vacuum gauge to the throttle bodys , with the the ram air tubes off and the ram air duct taped off ..... Now retest with ram air hooked back up .....If you see 1 to 2 inches of vacuum at wide open throttle with it blocked off your are losing power ....If you see a reading of 0 on the gauge with ram air hooked up it working as Kawi planed ....We use this on cars to find out the needed CFM carb that will make the most HP ...In a car if the gauge is showing vacuum at wide open throttle at the top end of the track in carb is to small ( needs more CFM) if it's 0 your carb cfm is right on ........
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Smokin Performance Cycles..
Tampa Bay , FL .. Brocks Performance Dealer ..
Gen 2 ZX14R Best ET 8.43 , Best MPH 164.95
  
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Sticks_n_Stones
Needs a job
Posts: 3930
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posted November 19, 2007 10:15 AM
+1 Exactly what we did. Turns out a 850 Holley Double pumper isnt always the answer! lmao
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'06 zx14
Muzzy M10/M14
PCIII w/ Muzzy map
Flies out K&N in!
bits n pieces...
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kspz3
Expert Class
Posts: 334
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posted November 19, 2007 11:13 AM
quote:
kspz3 Just wondering since there is no drop in the manifold at speed under max load and max rpm that means the ram air IS working properly, doesnt it? Because if the manifold pressurized wouldn't there be an issue with said pressurization as far as things like EGR and such being suddenly reversed? From my laymans perspective keeping that airbox as close to atmospheric conditions would seem the best idea for the ram air. BUT if that was the case on the dyno that airbox should be showing some noticeable drops in pressure, right? Thats my experience from cars, especially cars with actual ram air hoods and snorkel tubes that feed of the high pressure zones. Static on a dyno and under way on the street are two different things. Had a ram air on one of my camaro's that I found to work best (in the 1/4) at 11 to 1 A/F on the dyno. The dyno operator thought I was off track, though, but I gained a tenth from that setting versus 12.5 to 1.
I agree that is is working based upon the fact that it mitigates the expected pressure drop. I just was not able to see within the data that I have collected any evidence of pressure increase - that is typically discussed as basis for an increased HP at speed. I must also state that I am relying on the MAP sensor on the bike - Have not confirmed with an independent device - so I would allow for cockpit error. But like I said I see no evidence in the data I have collected of any increased presure - but only of maintaining consistent pressure. I believe based upon this there is a potential performance gain if the airbox could be sealed allowing it to build pressure.
KSP
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kspz3
Expert Class
Posts: 334
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posted November 19, 2007 11:17 AM
quote:
Well one thing for sure is the ram air is working on a zx14 .. One way to test this is hook a Vacuum gauge to the throttle bodys , with the the ram air tubes off and the ram air duct taped off ..... Now retest with ram air hooked back up .....If you see 1 to 2 inches of vacuum at wide open throttle with it blocked off your are losing power ....If you see a reading of 0 on the gauge with ram air hooked up it working as Kawi planed ....We use this on cars to find out the needed CFM carb that will make the most HP ...In a car if the gauge is showing vacuum at wide open throttle at the top end of the track in carb is to small ( needs more CFM) if it's 0 your carb cfm is right on ........
Smokin,
My conclusion is based solely upon looking at the output of the MAP sensor - I expected to see an increase in the pressure - but did not notice any.... If you are interested BTW I can send you data for review - I believe that you can get Innovate software for free as download. What has your experieince been with the standard verse 200MPH Map - just curious.
KSP
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smokinzx14
Needs a life
Posts: 10197
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posted November 19, 2007 03:57 PM
quote:
quote:
Well one thing for sure is the ram air is working on a zx14 .. One way to test this is hook a Vacuum gauge to the throttle bodys , with the the ram air tubes off and the ram air duct taped off ..... Now retest with ram air hooked back up .....If you see 1 to 2 inches of vacuum at wide open throttle with it blocked off your are losing power ....If you see a reading of 0 on the gauge with ram air hooked up it working as Kawi planed ....We use this on cars to find out the needed CFM carb that will make the most HP ...In a car if the gauge is showing vacuum at wide open throttle at the top end of the track in carb is to small ( needs more CFM) if it's 0 your carb cfm is right on ........
Smokin,
My conclusion is based solely upon looking at the output of the MAP sensor - I expected to see an increase in the pressure - but did not notice any.... If you are interested BTW I can send you data for review - I believe that you can get Innovate software for free as download. What has your experieince been with the standard verse 200MPH Map - just curious.
KSP
I have not tried the Maxton map yet ...But today loaded the Maxton map in my bike ....I have the feeling that the U4.2 fuel that I just started using is running way lean ...I have been running the U4.2 the last few weeks in the 1/8 mile only and didn't seem to have a problem with it ( MPH 124 to 125 as allways ) ...Sat we went to the 1/4 mile track and i lost some MPH but was running the same ETs as passed visits to the 1/4 mile ...Only change to the bike was a switch from U4 to the new U4.2 .....I have heard that this fuel runs much leaner than the old U4 ...So that is the reason for the Maxton map change ....I will let you know how it works out .....Brocks 06 zx14 made its fastest 1/4 mile pass ever on the Maxton map but remember we are at sea level here and the air at Gainesville was really good air for that pass ...I would bet money at higher Alts the Maxtom map would not be the right map and the street map or race map would run faster ..
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Smokin Performance Cycles..
Tampa Bay , FL .. Brocks Performance Dealer ..
Gen 2 ZX14R Best ET 8.43 , Best MPH 164.95
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kspz3
Expert Class
Posts: 334
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posted November 19, 2007 04:17 PM
I was amazed at how close the bike runs between sea level and 4000'. I had best pass at Maxton on the regular map. I found Brock's conclusions were based upon limited data and really needed additional testing to be conclusive. I came upon my findings first by accident - when my map switch threw (from vibration) to the leaner map - and I caught it later when reviewing the data logs...... now I tape the switch and always put the lean map in the top position.
KSP
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famous1
Expert Class
Posts: 402
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posted November 19, 2007 04:58 PM
quote:
I was amazed at how close the bike runs between sea level and 4000'. I had best pass at Maxton on the regular map. I found Brock's conclusions were based upon limited data and really needed additional testing to be conclusive. I came upon my findings first by accident - when my map switch threw (from vibration) to the leaner map - and I caught it later when reviewing the data logs...... now I tape the switch and always put the lean map in the top position.
KSP
Lol @ you.....
I'll take brock's limited info map over yours anyday....
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Bently
Needs a life
2012 14r In Blue and no Mods!
Posts: 5428
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posted November 19, 2007 05:36 PM
Brock's maps always run top notch for me! could not improv on his maps in the bikes I've tried them in.
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Wheelie
Needs a life
Old Man
Posts: 6902
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posted November 19, 2007 05:41 PM
its obvious Brock is good, but how can a one map fits all beat a custom map for your personal bike? wee
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Bently
Needs a life
2012 14r In Blue and no Mods!
Posts: 5428
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posted November 19, 2007 05:55 PM
Well here in Iowa they are to close to mess with.
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lucky14
Pro
Posts: 1439
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posted November 19, 2007 06:44 PM
Posted on both Busa boads:
The same 14 after mapping only:
http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w320/edonsmith/14mapped.jpg
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You only need two tools: WD-40 and Duct Tape.
If it doesn't move and should, use the WD-40.
If it shouldn't move and does, use the duct tape.
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fastest-14
Expert Class
Fastest -14
Posts: 354
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posted November 19, 2007 07:40 PM
In reference to the dyno numbers for the 14 and the Busa that were presented earlier, I'll just wait and see what Brock comes up with, pertaining to both bikes on the same dyno. I understand the explanation about the "08" 14 being rich, and that's obvious on the dyno sheet but at the same time, 159.46 max HP! Come onnnn, rich or lean, my "06" 14 made more stock HP than this, un mapped, un piped. I'll wait for Brock's results.
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kspz3
Expert Class
Posts: 334
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posted November 20, 2007 05:52 AM
Now it is lean in the middle - what is going on there?
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00GreenZX
Parking Attendant
Posts: 1
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posted November 20, 2007 06:30 AM
I thought you were going to run stock vs. stock first, no PC's
What were those numbers?
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bigdtd
Needs a job
Interceptors
Posts: 4209
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posted November 20, 2007 11:04 AM
don't know what you guys did but muzzy got over 200hp on a 14 with a pipe and pc,FYI
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2006 Black ZX-14,6 inches over,16/42, flies out,BMC Street Filter,Brock's Street Meg,Brock's Radial Mount Strap,PClll with Race map,Dynojet LCD w/Techmount, ZX-14 fender eliminator,Pilot Power2CTs,Speedohealer,Pazzo Levers,Cox Radiator Guard, Garmin Nuvi 265WT
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lucky14
Pro
Posts: 1439
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posted November 20, 2007 12:07 PM
Did anyone notice the A/F line on the Busa from the press intro that Brock did the dyno on?
I trust that Brock reported what he found.
What jumped out at me was the the A/F line looked like the Busa had been mapped from the factory. That's not possible .................. or is it? 
The writeup:
http://www.dragbike.com/dbnews/anmviewer.asp?a=3392&z=18
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You only need two tools: WD-40 and Duct Tape.
If it doesn't move and should, use the WD-40.
If it shouldn't move and does, use the duct tape.
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Bently
Needs a life
2012 14r In Blue and no Mods!
Posts: 5428
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posted November 20, 2007 01:59 PM
The mapping on my Busa when it was stock was very very good thats why I only picked up about 7 hp with pipe.
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