larryc
Novice Class
Posts: 43
|
posted November 07, 2007 03:00 AM
If you get an opportunity and would post it, I'd appreciate the flow results with the throttle bodies on the head and the valve at max cam lift. I'm formulating some information and that would really help nail down a variable or two....Thanks in advance.
Larry C
And thanks again for posting your test results....You're a good man for doing that.
  
|
Y2KZX12R
Needs a job
CompetitionCNC.com
Posts: 3762
|
posted November 07, 2007 03:20 AM
Sorry, I dont have a set of throttle bodies Larry. But the choke in the port will dictate total airflow anyway, due to the CSA being much larger in the manifold and throttle body. So Its not a flow factor.
Or are you looking for velocities at the injector for atomization?
____________
Y2KZX12R
CompetitionCNC.com
|
larryc
Novice Class
Posts: 43
|
posted November 07, 2007 03:23 PM
 Edited By: larryc on 7 Nov 2007 15:28
quote:
Sorry, I dont have a set of throttle bodies Larry. But the choke in the port will dictate total airflow anyway, due to the CSA being much larger in the manifold and throttle body. So Its not a flow factor.
Or are you looking for velocities at the injector for atomization?
I'm very interested in the velocities and the total system CFM. Will all due respect, even though the MCSA is further downstream, I'll still wager the total system flow drops with the TBs installed. If that happens, velocitiy drops everywhere from that point forward, thus the MCSA can be deceiving as to how pronounced it's effect is on total system flow.
In this style of port, high air speeds are far more tollerable. Increasing the MCSA would likely show a gain on the bench but the motor might no like it as much as the flowbench does. Again..that' IMO. I respect your own methods and conclusions from your efforts. It's really good to come across someone else with similar interests and a willingness to discuss a common interest.
PS - Admin ...."Parking Attendant"....LMAO...
Best Regards,
Larry C
|
Y2KZX12R
Needs a job
CompetitionCNC.com
Posts: 3762
|
posted November 07, 2007 03:57 PM
In 2000 when I first tested the 12r head I tested it with the throttle bodies and stacks. I also tested it with just the clay entrance and the difference wasnt measureable. But the 12r had bigger ports and higher flow in general.
I've found that its a trade off when you increase the minCSA. You loose throttle response and midrange torque and gain HP above peak torque. This applies to automotive ports as well. Race and street.
It seems that the higher the velocity is the more of a trade off it becomes.
____________
Y2KZX12R
CompetitionCNC.com
|
larryc
Novice Class
Posts: 43
|
posted November 10, 2007 06:32 AM
I find that in 4v heads but not always in 2v heads. Just depends on the design. I have a paper on a patented Honda port design that's interesting. I'll try to find the link to it for you.
Best Regards,
Larry C
|
ZX19R
Parking Attendant
Posts: 18
|
posted December 13, 2012 08:17 PM
was the zx14 head mapped in the end Jim?
____________
Vote no for Nuke industry they are all C.unts
already dooming our kids and grandkids DNA
|
Y2KZX12R
Needs a job
CompetitionCNC.com
Posts: 3762
|
posted December 15, 2012 02:04 PM
Wow this is an old thread.....
We have done several versions of porting since this thread.
We revised the porting 4 times and offer 3 different size ports now all based on the best port but with different MCSA
The stage 3 head is capable of flowing 280 cfm and the velocity is over 330 fps!!!
Most of our heads now are getting bigger buckets. The only way to make any power with these heads is to get big cams in them and that means big buckets.
If you are running over sized pistons and or a stroker motor and you don't have bigger buckets and cams then you are only gaining half of the power potential from the added displacement.
You should be getting at least .165 hp per cc from the busas and zx14 no matter what size bore and stroke the engine is. If your not then the engine isn't optimized. The all out gruge stuff we do is .174 hp per cc.
We have 1696 busa engines out there making
____________
Y2KZX12R
CompetitionCNC.com
|
ZX19R
Parking Attendant
Posts: 18
|
posted December 20, 2012 06:43 PM
very interesting Jim, Im surprised you guys havent been contracted by Suzuki to market a limited edition 1696cc Yokosuma Hayabusa for Japan. Can just imagine a small Japanese man in Tokyo traffic involuntary dancing Hula trying to balance himself on the idling beast!
My main concern is the exhaust port on the ZX14 did you guys work out why they where made so small as the ratios are very skewed compared to traditional formulas.
Your S3 head flows 280cfm & 330fps good grief! where do the exhaust fit into this flow?
____________
Vote no for Nuke industry they are all C.unts
already dooming our kids and grandkids DNA
|
justoyz2
Zone Head
Justoyz Racing
Posts: 858
|
posted December 21, 2012 07:35 PM
Jim,
where are we with the 2012 zx14r... Have you done any testing for this model? what about the larger TB?
____________
2012 zx14R-blue,2012 zx14R-black, 2014 zx14Trbo, 2011 zx10R, 2007 zx10 Turbo.....
|
Y2KZX12R
Needs a job
CompetitionCNC.com
Posts: 3762
|
posted December 22, 2012 03:51 AM
quote:
very interesting Jim, Im surprised you guys havent been contracted by Suzuki to market a limited edition 1696cc Yokosuma Hayabusa for Japan. Can just imagine a small Japanese man in Tokyo traffic involuntary dancing Hula trying to balance himself on the idling beast!
My main concern is the exhaust port on the ZX14 did you guys work out why they where made so small as the ratios are very skewed compared to traditional formulas.
Your S3 head flows 280cfm & 330fps good grief! where do the exhaust fit into this flow?
We made big changes to the 06-11 zx14 port for the stage 3 head in 2010.
The factory keeps the port small and the velocity high to help smooth out low and midrange torque. The rapid change in MCSA reflects much of the + pressure wave and reduces the amplitude of the +pressure wave that the back of the valve sees.
This larger port was needed to get the balance ratio between the ports back.
The factory 2012 zx14 exhaust port looks just like this port but a tad smaller.
____________
Y2KZX12R
CompetitionCNC.com
|
Lucky14
Pro
Posts: 1439
|
posted December 22, 2012 08:56 AM
Stock 2012 exhaust port for reference.
____________
You only need two tools: WD-40 and Duct Tape.
If it doesn't move and should, use the WD-40.
If it shouldn't move and does, use the duct tape.
|
ZX19R
Parking Attendant
Posts: 18
|
posted December 23, 2012 08:09 PM
Im definitely will have to send my head off to you Jim once Ive got the bottom end sorted!
I will definitely have to look into a custom made deck plate to bore and hone my block
after putting in the sleeves and also boost the cooling somewhat due to ductile iron material.
All the pics Ive seen on this forum strongly confirm that no master at hand porting can even
come close to duplicating the exact work for each port or chamber.
Jim I read most places the CC or the combustion chamber is 36cc have you found this to be true
as it looks more like 32cc while the pistons supposedly are -4cc to -6cc? You have correct figures?
____________
Vote no for Nuke industry they are all C.unts
already dooming our kids and grandkids DNA
|
Y2KZX12R
Needs a job
CompetitionCNC.com
Posts: 3762
|
posted December 24, 2012 11:32 AM
Why are you going to put iron sleeves in the block?
It will be weaker than if you just bore and plate it to what you want.
Also why have a deck plate made? We can bore. re-plate, and hone it with our deck plate for you
I have the data at the shop on the 2012 head..... but yes the chamber is larger.
____________
Y2KZX12R
CompetitionCNC.com
|
ZX19R
Parking Attendant
Posts: 18
|
posted December 24, 2012 07:00 PM
For some reason I cant send a PM yet
Sorry for not been clearer Ive found a lightweight automotive cast iron bottom end that almost spot on the bore spacings, water galleries and bores for an 08 zx14 head. Im modifying the bottom end to suit the head for something different in the hope I can bolt up a plethora of rwd transmissions with the aim of 120lbs lighter & more compact engine than a Honda s2000 engine. The 14 head is almost 28lbs lighter than the modern twin cam 16v head its replacing more taking into account the induction setup. Will be 1951cc final capacity so will have to be careful with piston, conrod and Headgasket choice for the first incarnation albeit a restricted one then to sort out the workings then the Stage 3 head + induction you offer will be the icing on the cake so to speak. The rod stroke ratio will be around 1.76 would prefer higher but piston and block limitations.
____________
Vote no for Nuke industry they are all C.unts
already dooming our kids and grandkids DNA
|
|
|
HOME
NEW TOPIC