davisag
Expert Class
Posts: 103
|
posted June 20, 2007 12:56 PM
muzzy cams
hi
well i see at last muzzy are showing performance cams for the 14 , from new billet so they are not cheap at $1195 , and no figures or power gains claimed
have the j&e 13.5-1 pistons to install , so with the cams and a little bit of head work wonder if 200 hp rear wheel is a reality
art
   
|
RobMuzzy
Expert Class
Posts: 295
|
posted June 22, 2007 10:51 AM
We don't show power gains because there are at least 10 to 20 different combinations of engine mods that will change the final output. To answere you're question increased compression, porting, and our cams should produce more than 210hp.
|
Xtremespeed
Expert Class
Posts: 415
|
posted June 22, 2007 01:29 PM
At the wheel? Those are pretty good numbers. How much porting is required, and how much power under the curve will we give up?
____________
When in doubt, Flick it!
|
fish_antlers
Administrator
The Truth is Out There
Posts: 21894
|
posted June 22, 2007 01:42 PM
quote:
there are at least 10 to 20 different combinations of engine mods that will change the final output.
I believe he'd just be repeating himself!
____________
What business is it of yours where I'm from, Friendo?
|
Ojref
Expert Class
Posts: 336
|
posted June 22, 2007 02:09 PM
quote:
At the wheel? Those are pretty good numbers. How much porting is required, and how much power under the curve will we give up?
Just pin the throttle and you won't worry about giving up jack shit. 
____________
2006 Kawasaki ZX-14 Ninja, Red now with mo' Brock's in my lyfe
1991 Yamaha Vmax - Because I need a mule to carry the manhood
2002 Ford Lightning - Ford GT Aluminum block engined, 802HP 911TQ now WhippleCharged
|
Xtremespeed
Expert Class
Posts: 415
|
posted June 22, 2007 04:06 PM
quote:
I believe he'd just be repeating himself!
I think if he can claim 210hp or more, he can give us an idea of the porting required and the amount of power loss at lower rpm's. I'm not looking for exact numbers, just an idea of the differences in the running characteristics between the stock engine and the engine with raised compression, porting and his cams. I don't think he needs to repeat himself at all.
|
dubious
Needs a life
Needs more time to ride!
Posts: 8442
|
posted June 23, 2007 06:05 AM
With increased compression taken into account, you likely will not lose much bottom, if any!
That has been my experience with other bikes, as a general statement.
Asking specifics with out a specific detail of all mods, it is hard to be specific as Rob stated.
Cam timing, ign timing, fuel mapping, pipe, fuel, and other intake mods will change the outcome.
____________
natural selection.....
destiny will overcome intervention.
Some are not worthy of the effort.
|
Xtremespeed
Expert Class
Posts: 415
|
posted June 23, 2007 11:42 AM
I appreciate your input. I did, however, not ask for any specifics. Everyone wants to jump on you any time you ask for numbers, assuming you don't understand the variables involved. I figured if Rob could come up with a number like 210hp, he could use the same setup he was reffering to and give us a little more info as to what kind of characterisitcs the engine would exhibit with these modifications. Just trying to get an idea of what kinds of gains and losses would be noticed for the approximately 3k or more I would spend. I'm not going to throw that kind of many around and just hope for the best, Your first statement in your last post was the kind of info I was looking for, and I figured Rob might have a few more things to add.
|
dubious
Needs a life
Needs more time to ride!
Posts: 8442
|
posted June 23, 2007 02:03 PM
dood, I'm not jumping!
Rob has stated before that he does not like giving out dyno graphs as no dyno reads the same, different ambient characterisics and all the other variables mentioned create different results.
Just tryin to help bro... 
Maybe a call to Muzzy will get you more info... the internet can be a precarious place to advertise, peoples expectations become heightened.
____________
natural selection.....
destiny will overcome intervention.
Some are not worthy of the effort.
|
Xtremespeed
Expert Class
Posts: 415
|
posted June 23, 2007 02:31 PM
No offense intended. Like I said, I appreciate your input. I think you are missing the point however. I'm not asking for any of those things. I was looking for something generic, A la, "you may see some low end loss below approx X rpm's with a slight torque loss, but you could have X-X extra hp above approx X rpm's. The engine will/will not exhibit problems in everyday driving situations. Other things that might be considered for these mods are X.
I don't have much use for all the hp numbers floating around anyways. Most of them cannot be compared to give accurate results. I'm just interested in what's being offered, not, "I can port your head, and I have cams to fit your engine. You should buy them." I'm not saying Rob is guilty of this, I just wanted to know what he can tell us about the cams, and how they will affect the power band, driveability, and reliability of the 14.
I hope I have made everyone understand. I'm not interested in exact numbers, just a generic, what to expect out of the cams. I'm also still interested in how much work the stock head requires to work well with these cams.
|
tslewisz
Expert Class
Posts: 328
|
posted June 23, 2007 02:56 PM
Those are very reasonable questions, Xtreme, but Muz's page specifies "For race applications only." Given that, I think we assume that power band is very biased toward the high end, driveability is very compromised, and reliability is, um, "different", than stock.
|
blackbullet76
Pro
Posts: 1134
|
posted June 24, 2007 04:26 AM
A guy at the track changed the pistons in his 06 14, i guess more compression. He was running a programmer and a muzzy sidewinder pipe and said he was putting down 206hp at the rear wheel.
____________
2007 ZX-14 black
Brocks s-meg exhaust
PCIII w/track map
BMC race filter
Flies removed
16 tooth front sprocket
Speedohealer
APE cam chain tensioner
Vortex rearsets
|
cajunboyz
Zone Head
Posts: 702
|
posted June 24, 2007 10:19 AM
 Edited By: cajunboyz on 24 Jun 2007 11:20
hey,blackbullet, What kind of time was this guy running? Was he a heavy guy? ride well? Thats some nice HP if it was just higher compression pistons???
____________
"Cajun Boyz with Bad Ass Toys"
|
Robmuzzy
Expert Class
Posts: 295
|
posted June 25, 2007 07:35 AM
If you run at least 13.5 to 1 compression and do not over port the head you will not lose bottom or mid power. Please do not ask me how to port the head on this forum. Porting is an art and therefore almost impossible to describe.
|
Xtremespeed
Expert Class
Posts: 415
|
posted June 25, 2007 09:00 AM
Damn, it's hard to make you guys understand! Did I ever ask how to port the head? When I said how much poting is required, I meant, bowl work, intake runner, exhaust runner, gasket match? Just wanted to know if you are talking extensive head work, and in what areas. Geeesh!
____________
When in doubt, Flick it!
|
zx14mike
Zone Head
Posts: 891
|
posted June 25, 2007 05:08 PM
I'm curious as to what happened to the big bore kits..........they were advertised back in the winter now you dont see them anymore on Schnitz's or Muzzy's sites..........wonder if there were issues that required more R&D????????????????
|
kawracer
Novice Class
Posts: 94
|
posted June 25, 2007 05:12 PM
quote:
I'm curious as to what happened to the big bore kits..........they were advertised back in the winter now you dont see them anymore on Schnitz's or Muzzy's sites..........wonder if there were issues that required more R&D????????????????
+1
|
uncle zed
Parking Attendant
Posts: 16
|
posted June 25, 2007 11:13 PM
Edited By: uncle zed on 26 Jun 2007 00:20
quote:
A guy at the track changed the pistons in his 06 14, i guess more compression. He was running a programmer and a muzzy sidewinder pipe and said he was putting down 206hp at the rear wheel.
The guy your talking about blackbullet is Scott Lansford, owner of Lansford Kawasaki in Crossville,TN. His bike actually has pistons and a 5mm stroker crank but the topend is still stock. The 206hp was with MR9 race gas but I have a feeling it will eventually make alot more than that when he get the topend done. He told me it was a bitch to set up with the cylinders being integrated in the cases but by the way it sounds and runs I believe it was worth the effort.
|
BlackMagic14
Needs a job
Posts: 2058
|
posted June 25, 2007 11:21 PM
Rob, how much roughly would the above mentioned HEad work, cams and 13.5 to 1 pistons cost??? including installation and tuning... I know every application is different and I dont want an exact number but I have been thinking about going with this package for some time and just curious "ballpark" what it would cost
|
blackbullet76
Pro
Posts: 1134
|
posted June 26, 2007 04:31 AM
quote:
hey,blackbullet, What kind of time was this guy running? Was he a heavy guy? ride well? Thats some nice HP if it was just higher compression pistons???
Best time I seen was 5.87 @ 125 mph in the 1/8.
quote:
The guy your talking about blackbullet is Scott Lansford, owner of Lansford Kawasaki in Crossville,TN. His bike actually has pistons and a 5mm stroker crank but the topend is still stock. The 206hp was with MR9 race gas but I have a feeling it will eventually make alot more than that when he get the topend done. He told me it was a bitch to set up with the cylinders being integrated in the cases but by the way it sounds and runs I believe it was worth the effort.
Oh, I didn't know about the longer stroke crank. Yeah, it does sound badass with the muzzy sidewinder pipe. You can hear that thing fire up from anywhere on the track!
____________
2007 ZX-14 black
Brocks s-meg exhaust
PCIII w/track map
BMC race filter
Flies removed
16 tooth front sprocket
Speedohealer
APE cam chain tensioner
Vortex rearsets
|
Xtremespeed
Expert Class
Posts: 415
|
posted June 26, 2007 03:59 PM
We can't get any insight on what has to be done or what to expect from the engine afterwards and you want prices? Hahahaha! No offense. It looks to me like it's too much trouble to give the buyers the info they need to make a good decision. I'm not bashing, but this is the first time I've ever considered buying anything from Muzzy's, and Rob, as well as others here, seem aggrevated about having to answer questions about these modifications. If this is to be expected when dealing with these people, I dont' think I want the parts. Not one time have I asked for any specific numbers or anything, and I can't even get any general information other than what some people assume will be the case, which was much appreciated by the way. I'm thankful to the few here that at least tried to give me some ideas.
|
dubious
Needs a life
Needs more time to ride!
Posts: 8442
|
posted June 26, 2007 04:43 PM
with increased compression and cams it will pull like stock on the bottom, slight boost in the mid, and will rip your arms out of their sockets on top,
is that a generic enough statement? 
The cam is designed for top end power, increased compression assists with what would be lost down low.
____________
natural selection.....
destiny will overcome intervention.
Some are not worthy of the effort.
|
Xtremespeed
Expert Class
Posts: 415
|
posted June 26, 2007 05:31 PM
Yeah that's generic enough. Enough for me to keep what I got. My bike will rip my arms out of their sockets now.
Ya'll are taking this the wrong way. Rob has what are probably some pretty nice parts and services available, but doesn't seem to want to talk about them. I don't understand the lack of information about something that costs this much. I would expect if he wants to sell his parts and services he would at least elaborate a little, and give some information as to what has been accomplished with these modifications. Are the cams untested? Remember, Rob is the one who said ," increased compression, porting, and our cams should produce more than 210hp." I don't think I'm bieng an ass here or giving Rob or any of you a hard time. I was just asking for him to elaborate a little. Sorry if anyone was offended.
|
ZXLNT
Needs a job
Kawpuke Extraordinare
Posts: 2853
|
posted June 26, 2007 07:42 PM
Didn't appear to me Rob was aggravated in the least bit. You seem to be the one getting all worked up.
|
dubious
Needs a life
Needs more time to ride!
Posts: 8442
|
posted June 27, 2007 04:19 AM
Xtremespeed,
No offense bro, and hope likewise.
Phone them. Rob has been drug into some controversial issues on the web and is likely avoiding the bullshit that comes with internet bantering.
Porting can make or break a good combo depending on who does it.
Cam timing, and other factors or variables which can affect the overall outcome are also variables which Rob can not predict unless Muzzydoes the work.
Call them for the skinny though bro
____________
natural selection.....
destiny will overcome intervention.
Some are not worthy of the effort.
|
|
|
HOME
NEW TOPIC