fury
Expert Class
Posts: 427
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posted May 29, 2007 06:00 PM
control over 2nd butterflies...
I have not removed my fly's as of yet.
I had all the panels off and put them back on.
Reason...
I email'd power commander and just got a response.
No they are not developing anything at this time.
I am going to have to take my panels off again.
I am going to look for a stepper motor ( fly ctrl'r )
I want to see if I can remove the wires. And drive the motor with a switch. open closed.
not sure if it is possible. But I do have a bit of an electronics back ground.
I would really like to see if I can controll these things before I remove them...
Anyone else try this yet?
Am I wasting my time anotherwards...
  
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TeamSpeed
Expert Class
Posts: 449
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posted May 29, 2007 06:05 PM
 Edited By: TeamSpeed on 29 May 2007 19:16
It has been thought of many times, the problem is that not only will you have to control the stepper motor, you have to also supply the computer with the return signals that it reads to check current status/position of those butterflies to see if they are within specs. That is the hard part with this mod. If you could feed the computer the exact values it wants to see, but control the butterflies separately, you would have the ultimate mod for this particular problem. If not, you most likely will throw all kinds of codes.
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ZXLNT
Needs a job
Kawpuke Extraordinare
Posts: 2853
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posted May 29, 2007 06:06 PM
You cant drive a stepper motor with a simple switch, you need some kind of controller..
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TeamSpeed
Expert Class
Posts: 449
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posted May 29, 2007 06:18 PM
Edited By: TeamSpeed on 29 May 2007 19:18
No, but you might be able to run a separate voltage feed to the motor to fully open (like when cold), and have that switched. It has been a while since I dug through the manual, but that was the route I was going to take. But still, the computer will read full open when it expects them to be closed, and most likely will throw codes.
In the end, it was much simpler to just pull the flies, like we almost all have found out.
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ZXLNT
Needs a job
Kawpuke Extraordinare
Posts: 2853
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posted May 29, 2007 06:27 PM
Stepper motors dont work with just voltage. You have to apply the voltage to each set of windings in order. You can't just put say 12V to it and expect it to turn. Its a multi winding multi magnet motor..
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stepper_motor
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SRTOutlaw
Parking Attendant
Posts: 11
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posted May 29, 2007 06:48 PM
I would'nt waste my time. I was reading a thread awhile back. Someone had the idea of taking the rods that the flys are mounted to and welding the holes shut. That seemed like a sound idea to me! But otherwise just take the flys out and get a map from brock. And are'nt the flys already controled by a little motor and the ECU controls that right! It would make more sence to have a computer guru change the ecu program that controls that.
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fury
Expert Class
Posts: 427
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posted May 29, 2007 06:55 PM
rio stat...
I should have posted that as the controller...
Sorry...
Values...
If we knew the voltage at 6000rpm we could supply the system with that.
Would the computer think it is in 6th though...
A simple dc transformer could be employed to send the power signal required.
3 positions. closed /cracked/ wide open. With the use of a resistor if ness. (likely) fooling the computer into thinking the voltage has not changed but the flys are wide open. simpler design. again 3 way switch supplying the computer with the expected voltages via a power supply and a resistor. dam simple. no prob. just figured it out.
I need time which I am lacking this weekend.
We will see how it goes.
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stevewfl
Moderator
Posts: 27920
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posted May 29, 2007 07:28 PM
complicate it to death if you must. when you wake up to reality either leave the secondaries in or throw 'em in the waste basket
____________
2010 Concours14
'08 R1 YAMAHA
ZX14 gone!
CBR600RR track bike
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TeamSpeed
Expert Class
Posts: 449
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posted May 29, 2007 07:30 PM
Edited By: TeamSpeed on 29 May 2007 20:32
You are just about at the point I was about 10 months, then I saw the pics of the removal, and decided in the same time just to build something that could tap into the harnesses and test it out, I could simply have the flies pulled out. Good luck, keep us informed!
I instead put some effort into building my version of the TRE to always read 6th, like the original version TRE did, but I gave it the name of Trival Resistor Enhancement, or something like that. It worked well, but again, once the flies were gone, I didn't care about the TRE. The only thing now is I need to get rid of the backfire at 3500.
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Stalwart
Needs a job
Posts: 3360
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posted May 29, 2007 07:42 PM
quote:
rio stat...
I should have posted that as the controller...
Sorry...
You just don't understand, a rheostat is nothing more than a variable resistor. Won't control a stepper motor.
quote:
Values...
If we knew the voltage at 6000rpm we could supply the system with that.
Would the computer think it is in 6th though...
A simple dc transformer could be employed to send the power signal required.
Transformers use AC or pulsating DC, do you mean a transistor? You'll need at least 4 of them to control the butterfly stepper motors.
In short, you are a bit over your your head.
____________
Stuart
________________________________
Ridin' the Trump train.
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ZXLNT
Needs a job
Kawpuke Extraordinare
Posts: 2853
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posted May 30, 2007 01:50 AM
A rheostat wont work. Its not a matter of a specific voltage sent to the stepper motor. Its dependent on how that voltage is applied to the windings one after the other.. There is a common wire and like 3 other wires. As you apply voltage to 1 wire then the the next and the next, it causes the motor to rotate. You can't just apply a constant voltage to the motor and expect to move. It will move, but it will only move 1 step until you apply voltage to the next winding. A stepper motor controller applies voltage to those windings in series one after the other, causing it to rotate. Unless you have a stepper motor controller, it aint gonna work..
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fury
Expert Class
Posts: 427
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posted May 30, 2007 02:22 AM
guys.
ok thanks for your support and honesty.
I guess I have to put my head into it now.
Why am I putting this effort into this?
Fuel milage. I have none now.
Canada is wide spread.
TomTom to plot a trip gas station to gas station.
I will tell you about my failure later.
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fastestbusaaround
Needs a life
I eat Fish...
Posts: 7889
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posted May 30, 2007 02:30 AM
Waste of time, seriously. Pull the flies and just enjoy. BTW, a stepper motor won't do anything for mileage either. 14's aren't known for being thrifty on gas...nothing you do you will change that. If you want mileage, buy a liter bike or a 600.
____________
FYYFF!!!
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ZXLNT
Needs a job
Kawpuke Extraordinare
Posts: 2853
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posted May 30, 2007 03:58 AM
FBA did you ever own a 12R. You would think the 14 is a fuel miser compared to a 12R. Trust me, my 1270 is a freaking gas hog compared to the 14.
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dutchzx14
Expert Class
Posts: 213
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posted May 30, 2007 06:08 AM
You gonna waste a lot of time with that shit.really, remove them, and get the pc3.......................................... as told here on the forum.
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stevewfl
Moderator
Posts: 27920
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posted May 30, 2007 06:25 AM
quote:
You gonna waste a lot of time with that shit.really, remove them, and get the pc3.......................................... as told here on the forum.
+1
____________
2010 Concours14
'08 R1 YAMAHA
ZX14 gone!
CBR600RR track bike
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serius blk
Zone Head
Posts: 543
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posted May 30, 2007 07:20 AM
is their anyway to disconnect the motor from the shaft and leave it connected to the computer. That way the computer still move the motor and not throw any codes. It would still be hooked in the system. Then use your own device like step motor or what ever to control the butterflies. I ve done this to cars to fool the computer into thing the part is still intact.
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SciFiJoe
Parking Attendant
Posts: 15
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posted May 30, 2007 08:35 AM
Fury: Like most people have already said, just take out the flies and be done with it. You'll love the new found power and it's still very controlable. You can always put the flies back in if Dynojet comes up with something new.
____________
White '07 ZX14, flies out, Brock's Gen 3, PCIII USB & Brock's map.
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dutchzx14
Expert Class
Posts: 213
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posted May 30, 2007 10:26 AM
Ask your self the next question...... do you wanna open the trhottle, or do you let decide your bike who is the boss......
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stevewfl
Moderator
Posts: 27920
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posted May 30, 2007 02:17 PM
____________
2010 Concours14
'08 R1 YAMAHA
ZX14 gone!
CBR600RR track bike
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nightmare
Pro
ACP Racing
Posts: 1797
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posted May 30, 2007 02:23 PM
I don't see the point of all this. Actually it seems about pointless as hell and a lot of work that just may not work and for what. Just snatch them out and you have complete control in the flick of the wrist you know!
____________
2006 ZX14 Ninja "SWINE FLU"
60ft 1.23
8th Mile 5.16
ACP Racing
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lietoome
Needs a job
Posts: 2033
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posted May 30, 2007 02:35 PM
anyone try contacting MSD?
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fury
Expert Class
Posts: 427
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posted May 30, 2007 03:54 PM
quote:
is their anyway to disconnect the motor from the shaft and leave it connected to the computer. That way the computer still move the motor and not throw any codes. It would still be hooked in the system. Then use your own device like step motor or what ever to control the butterflies. I ve done this to cars to fool the computer into thing the part is still intact.
dam...
Even easier.
I can disconnect the motor and put on a supplimental unit... Order 1 from kawi.
I can adjust how it opens and closes.
dang.
I can still have stock fuel milage and have the wife on the back of the beast...
U got an idea for mapping?
I have a module for my palm pilot. (on the fly tuning
Maybe that is the answer. Going for a ride with the wife upload stock map...
Going to have a blast upload tweaked map.
Sound good?
Guy's.
I am only trying to keep it friendly for the wife.
I like having her ass on the back of the bike.
Alont with her 36 d's
cya!
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raband
Expert Class
Posts: 121
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posted May 30, 2007 04:48 PM
The bike is actually better with the flies out for me when pillioning - broader spread of power throughout the rev range rather than iffy in the lower levels. Can use a gear or two higher and still have power there and is much smoother on the power in higher gears than higher revs.
I do, howerver, have a map thats excellent forr pillioning (smoother) and another for solo - The solo map is a bit more savage and doesnt make for nice gear changes that stop the pillion headbutting - the other map does.
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BlueLIGHTNING
Expert Class
Posts: 227
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posted May 30, 2007 06:12 PM
Hey i like the backfire sometimes on serious deceleration sounds like a cannon goin off.
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