serius blk
Zone Head
Posts: 543
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posted May 30, 2007 06:56 PM
like i was saying that was a easy possible solution. I remember doing this on my truck. The overdrive transmission tore up so we put in a old school 727 from a old mopar. We hooked all the electric sensors and items together as before. The computer didnt know the overdrive was missing. All it knew was the circuit was closed loop. OBD2 is a smarter computer than the ones on our bikes. Anythings possible. Hey what about the on the fly system that the gsx1000 has. Something the moves the stepmotor in 3 different positions. Like you say a certain amount of voltage for each position. I could see something like that working. Its unfortunate that I took my flies out and love the way it is now.
  
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stevewfl
Moderator
Posts: 27920
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posted May 30, 2007 08:52 PM
quote:
Fury: Like most people have already said, just take out the flies and be done with it. You'll love the new found power and it's still very controlable. You can always put the flies back in if Dynojet comes up with something new.
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2010 Concours14
'08 R1 YAMAHA
ZX14 gone!
CBR600RR track bike
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ZXLNT
Needs a job
Kawpuke Extraordinare
Posts: 2853
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posted May 30, 2007 09:36 PM
quote:
Something the moves the stepmotor in 3 different positions. Like you say a certain amount of voltage for each position. I could see something like that working. Its unfortunate that I took my flies out and love the way it is now.
Again its NOT A CERTAIN AMOUNT OF VOLTAGE. It takes a controller that applies voltage to the motors windings in series to 1 after the other to cause the motor to rotate. You have to have a controller to do it, unless you want to manually apply voltage to each winding one after the other. You guys have got to get this into your head. A stepper motor is a special kind of motor that needs a controller in order to operate.
Now you can purchase stepper motor controllers, and they aren't that expensive, but your gonna have to be able to program it and make it do what you want to do. And if your not understanding how a stepper motor works, the programming part is gonna be out of reach as well..
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fury
Expert Class
Posts: 427
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posted May 31, 2007 03:01 AM
thank you!.
I know an electronics wiz. He works with crap like this all the time.
I will see him before I go nuts.
If this works. woohoo!
Gentlemen.
Parts are on order.
We wil see what happens.
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fury
Expert Class
Posts: 427
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posted June 01, 2007 04:18 PM
ok news.
I cannot just order a motor. *it comes in a complete assembley"
Far from over.
I talked to a friend and he said he would help me out with a parts list.
Simple (so he stated)
All I need now is a schematic on the electronics.
Going to the dealer.
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stevewfl
Moderator
Posts: 27920
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posted June 01, 2007 08:22 PM
quote:
ok news.
I cannot just order a motor. *it comes in a complete assembley"
Far from over.
I talked to a friend and he said he would help me out with a parts list.
Simple (so he stated)
All I need now is a schematic on the electronics.
Going to the dealer.
ever watch one of those little hamsters in a cage spinning its wheel endlessly....
____________
2010 Concours14
'08 R1 YAMAHA
ZX14 gone!
CBR600RR track bike
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fastestbusaaround
Needs a life
I eat Fish...
Posts: 7889
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posted June 02, 2007 01:50 AM
quote:
FBA did you ever own a 12R. You would think the 14 is a fuel miser compared to a 12R. Trust me, my 1270 is a freaking gas hog compared to the 14.
I only get like 27-28 MPG with the mods...worst mileage I've ever gotten on a bike, but don't expect more and don't much care either...way too much fun, this beast. 
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FYYFF!!!
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fastestbusaaround
Needs a life
I eat Fish...
Posts: 7889
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posted June 02, 2007 01:54 AM
quote:
quote:
ok news.
I cannot just order a motor. *it comes in a complete assembley"
Far from over.
I talked to a friend and he said he would help me out with a parts list.
Simple (so he stated)
All I need now is a schematic on the electronics.
Going to the dealer.
ever watch one of those little hamsters in a cage spinning its wheel endlessly....
Yup Steve....+1
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FYYFF!!!
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TeamSpeed
Expert Class
Posts: 449
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posted June 02, 2007 05:30 AM
 Edited By: TeamSpeed on 2 Jun 2007 06:31
quote:
ok news.
I cannot just order a motor. *it comes in a complete assembley"
Like I said, there have been a few folks that went down this road, and ended up just removing the flies, or trimming the flies. Much easier and faster.
If you want to talk to the person who "knows" the most about the electronics of the bike and its brain, you want to talk to cntrhubzx14 over on ZX14Ninja. What he knows will make your head spin, and he is very willing to give you details on your project if you want. 
http://www.zx14ninja.com/phpbb2/profile.php?mode=viewprofile&u=179
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ZXLNT
Needs a job
Kawpuke Extraordinare
Posts: 2853
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posted June 02, 2007 06:44 AM
If you can decipher his rambling doublespeak...
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fury
Expert Class
Posts: 427
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posted July 07, 2007 02:33 PM
update.
Now that we have our service manual, wiring is explained and voltages are explained.
3-10 (6)
3-11 (6)
3-12 (17)
3-13 (17)
3-14 (2,3,19,20,27) 27 subthrottle Sensor.
3-16 (B,C) B subthrottle sensor, subthrottle valve actuator
3-44 62 the actuator operates open and close of the subthrottle valve by the pulse signal from the ECU.
3-76 Subthrottle Sensor terminal 7 and 34 on the ecu.
3-77
3-78 Output Sensor DC .62 - 4.14 (at subthrottle valve full opening to closing)
.62 closed 4.14 fully open.
3-79
3-80
Sub throttle Actuator 3-87
3-88 10.5-12.5
3-89
It can be done I just have to read and test in the next couple weeks.
Again I am doing this for the pleasure of having the wife on the back of my bike.
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fury
Expert Class
Posts: 427
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posted July 07, 2007 02:45 PM
3-76
Sensor determines fuel injection, ignition timing with engine rpm, throttle opening
Now the question is if this is done right can I make more horsepower with this mod than with removing butterfly's...
We will see.
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fury
Expert Class
Posts: 427
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posted July 07, 2007 03:34 PM
3-87 when you turn the bie on, you can measure the out put to the subthrottle valve actuator.
Here at this point I can find the voltage needed to open the valves.
10.5 - 12.5 maybe... 3-88
I have to order a couple adapters.
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fury
Expert Class
Posts: 427
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posted July 07, 2007 03:58 PM
I have to send voltage to valve actuator and from subthrottle sensor to computer. Output Sensor DC .62 - 4.14 (at subthrottle valve full opening to closing)
I am not sure what voltage I need to send to valve actuator as of yet.
As soon as know what power is needed I will put caps in place, sending infor back to computer and boosting power to actuate.
I hope nothing else is tied to this. No computer errors is what I am looking 4.
Sorry about all the posts. Reading and thinking outloud.
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bigdtd
Needs a job
Interceptors
Posts: 4209
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posted July 07, 2007 05:41 PM
pull the flies you will be happier for pillioning
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2006 Black ZX-14,6 inches over,16/42, flies out,BMC Street Filter,Brock's Street Meg,Brock's Radial Mount Strap,PClll with Race map,Dynojet LCD w/Techmount, ZX-14 fender eliminator,Pilot Power2CTs,Speedohealer,Pazzo Levers,Cox Radiator Guard, Garmin Nuvi 265WT
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serius blk
Zone Head
Posts: 543
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posted July 07, 2007 05:57 PM
im with you man. Keep going until you find out how to work it. Yes going for the flies is easier solution. If this was out before. Almost everyone would have done it. The computer may adjust for the difference in the flies being open. Hey the switch suk uses for the different power levels may work similar. Sending different voltages to the injectors in its case.
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icdumpeple
Novice Class
Posts: 46
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posted July 08, 2007 05:01 AM
I may be ignorant of the system but does this bike have a mass air flow and or a o2 senser?
If you control the the flies would you not need to remap the FI system on the fly?
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fury
Expert Class
Posts: 427
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posted July 08, 2007 09:13 AM
It has a inlet air pressure sensor not worried at this point - again reports back to ecu.
Inlet Air sensor- again reports findings back to ecu
the computer should adjust on its own to a degree.
Nothing is for sure at this point.
I will let u know how it all works out.
I am waiting for tools.
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fury
Expert Class
Posts: 427
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posted July 08, 2007 09:20 AM
Now the question is if this is done right can I make more horsepower with this mod than with removing butterfly's...
We will see.
I am allowing the computer to adjust the injectors with all the correct data.
Will I need a fuel manager? - shouldnt we will see.
I have no access to a Dyno now.
I will have to find 1 in the area.
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H2 to ZX12
Needs a job
two stroke power
Posts: 3674
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posted July 08, 2007 09:31 AM
quote:
quote:
ok news.
I cannot just order a motor. *it comes in a complete assembley"
Far from over.
I talked to a friend and he said he would help me out with a parts list.
Simple (so he stated)
All I need now is a schematic on the electronics.
Going to the dealer.
ever watch one of those little hamsters in a cage spinning its wheel endlessly....
+2 it sucks to be someone who thinks that they're brilliant and has to prove it
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fury
Expert Class
Posts: 427
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posted July 08, 2007 12:28 PM
I tried 1 cap today.
I was able to open fly's.
But I will have to wait for adapters.
Close.
I hope it works.
Pretty cool watching the fly's open when I want them to.
I will put a switch on the circuit. Activate fly's or stock version.
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fury
Expert Class
Posts: 427
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posted July 08, 2007 12:30 PM
No i did not run the bike.
Just a test to see if I could get them open.
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surfinlate
Parking Attendant
Posts: 30
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posted July 08, 2007 01:09 PM
would you need to be able to switch the fuel maps on the fly as well(no pun intended) if you were able to control the flies to avoid a lean spot?
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fury
Expert Class
Posts: 427
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posted July 08, 2007 03:49 PM
The computer should make all adjustments.
air intake pressure and air temp and throttle position sensor.
Nothing bypassed there.
We will see.
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bigdtd
Needs a job
Interceptors
Posts: 4209
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posted July 08, 2007 04:11 PM
"The computer should make all adjustments."
now you are trippin. you need a fuel map to adjust the mixture for your open flies.
pull them, remap, end of story
____________
2006 Black ZX-14,6 inches over,16/42, flies out,BMC Street Filter,Brock's Street Meg,Brock's Radial Mount Strap,PClll with Race map,Dynojet LCD w/Techmount, ZX-14 fender eliminator,Pilot Power2CTs,Speedohealer,Pazzo Levers,Cox Radiator Guard, Garmin Nuvi 265WT
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