1badzx12r
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posted April 07, 2007 06:16 PM
but if i could go back and do over i would have put a turbo on my zx12....cause only way a zx14 is gonna play with a turbo zx12 is with a turbo of its own ..... cheaper than switching bikes.... but if your just after a stock mile event the zx14 will give you a better chance cause of more tq and hp to work with out of the crate....but i'm fat and don't care what form of motor mods crosses the line as long as its over 200mph
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1badzx12r
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posted April 07, 2007 06:21 PM
 Edited By: 1badzx12r on 7 Apr 2007 19:22
quote:
I have no doubt that the 14 can rip the 12 until 7-8k rpm. What I want to know is how to make it scream on top and obliterate the 12 up there. With the added displacement, I would think it could take a lot more cam, and really put the 12 on the trailer.
That is what I was really looking into, by creating this thread. No harm, no foul.
no harm.... no body that i know have replaced the stock cams... there been some dailing of the cams.... but if you want the best out of the zx14 then CARPENTER is the builder to go with ...simply put his built zx14 is runnin 8.30's in the qt which would give some good hp for mile runs
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1badzx12r
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posted April 07, 2007 06:24 PM
http://www.carpenterracing.com/zx14.htm
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LandspeedLarry
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posted April 07, 2007 06:29 PM
The 14's bigger displacement advantage is hard to ignore. If you are talking setting records, stock won't do it and the 12 actually is a better choice since 1290's and 1350's have been around for seven years and make good power. The 14 needs time for development.
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1badzx12r
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posted April 07, 2007 06:39 PM
Edited By: 1badzx12r on 7 Apr 2007 19:40
quote:
The 14's bigger displacement advantage is hard to ignore. If you are talking setting records, stock won't do it and the 12 actually is a better choice since 1290's and 1350's have been around for seven years and make good power. The 14 needs time for development.
http://mrturbo.com/news/new_bonneville.html
zx11 better yet
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kawasaki_rick
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posted April 07, 2007 06:49 PM
I had a 12 b4 the i bought my 14. Its a better bike for me. I drag race its already faster on motor than my 12 was with a 30 shot. I will say the the 14 is on a mild state of tune. thats what i like about it. You dont have 2 spin the hell out of the engine 2 make power. 1 other reason i like the 14 better is the clutch. the 12s clutch is a weak pos every1 knows it. But as far as this topic is concerned. If you put cams in and headwork it would be untouchable. Just my 2 cents. thanks
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shiphteey
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posted April 07, 2007 08:12 PM
Edited By: shiphteey on 7 Apr 2007 21:20
Debbie ran 187 mph with stock pipes on an air shifted hayabusa with a little bit shorter gearing since she was bone stock power-wise. No race filter, no pc3. Stock mudflap and signals, etc. Her motor is bone stock, I was at the shop a few weeks ago!
ANYONE WANT MORE INFO? CONTACT DEBBIE OR TODD DROSS AT TWIN JUGS IN VA. (540) 657-8481
We had nice tailwinds this March @ Maxton...hell @ Texas this March with the same carbon wheels and bearings I could only muster 191 (193 on GPS). However with stock wheels and bearings, same set-up otherwise, even gearing and tire I went 202 @ Maxton (200 on gps)!!!! THINK ABOUT THAT LONG AND HARD BEFORE YOU GO CALLING BS!!!
Headwinds vs tailwinds, plain and simple. Timing lights @ Texas on Saturday were 2-3 mph lower than GPS (never seen that at any lsr venue), @ Maxton they are even to maybe 2 mph higher than GPS. Sunday at TX they were on par w/GPS.
POINT BEING, ANYONE WHO RUNS 194 HAS A SHOT @ 200 @ MAXTON.
A lotta texas guys on busas, 12s, and 14s were kinda bummed out but I tried getting their spirits up telling them how different (faster) it is @ Maxton.
I respect the 14s but SO FAR I can't say I'm THAT impressed with the numbers they are turning. Pretty quick at the strip, but as a total package for LSR the 14 hasn't shown itself to be ANYTHING SPECTACULAR.........................YET!
LOL call bullshit all you want....hell I went 188.8 NAKED @ Maxton with a gearing change, otherwise all mods the same! I ran a 189 with 205 gearing with a fairing @ Texas. When you run both venues in 7 days, then you are qualified in making comparisions, otherwise anyone calling BS is full of shit themselves. Sure, if she ran @ TX she woulda been lucky to even crack 180. But a small rider with a tailwind @ 230 or whatever ft elevation on more optimistic timing lights can run 187, suck it up already.
A.
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serius blk
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posted April 08, 2007 05:01 AM
shane one other thing to remember is all the bikes are geared differently. Kaw made this bike with the intention to rule the strip. Its been a couple of guys that have changed to a 18 tooth instead of the 17 and have run alot faster on top. You will have to go back through the threads to ck the cam specs. I looked it up sometime ago. The specs were just on the 14. And yea i understood what you were asking. Maybe some of the guys woke up on the wrong side of the bed. Theres more than one or two people on this forum. Everybody not a hater. You just happen to talk to some guys that took it offensive. Ive ridding both bikes and the 14 is a totally different bike than the 12. I think you would like it.
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1badzx12r
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posted April 08, 2007 05:51 AM
Headwinds vs tailwinds, plain and simple. Timing lights @ Texas on Saturday were 2-3 mph lower than GPS (never seen that at any lsr venue), @ Maxton they are even to maybe 2 mph higher than GPS. Sunday at TX they were on par w/GPS.
POINT BEING, ANYONE WHO RUNS 194 HAS A SHOT @ 200 @ MAXTON.
like i said ... TAILWIND and DOWNHILL...
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shane661
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posted April 08, 2007 06:51 AM
Timing lights were dead at Maxton this time. Rus of 173,174,177, and 189 all were dead on with GPS. Remember the 14's were running under the same conditions, so that is more of a fair comparison than comparing TX to Maxton runs.
At any rate, I found out the info that I needed. Thanks.
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1badzx12r
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posted April 08, 2007 07:40 AM
What you found out....Cause i seen on the Carpenter website that they have 2 sizes of cams...But there was no spec's.....
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shane661
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posted April 08, 2007 08:56 AM
Well, here is what I was told:
"The zx14 has 1/2 point less compression, less duration and lobe overlap, and 44mm throttlebores vs the 46 mm of a zx12.
Yes the 14 is tuned for more midrange and bottom torque , vs the peaky powerband of the zx12.
Bigger sticks, in addition to a good exhaust will liven her right up for more top end pull, at the expense of some throttle response and bottom end power.
About 200-205 real RWHP (20 HP more than zx12with same mods) just cams and exhaust."
This what I needed to know, and it explains why the 14's weren't killing 12's at Maxton. But the potential is there, just as I suspected.
Again, thanks to everyone for their input..
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shiphteey
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posted April 08, 2007 09:01 AM
What are yo talking about? Downhill? No downhill buddy. Do you understand the difference between headwinds and tailwinds?
With a 10 mph headwind I could only muster 199 on GPS @ Bonneville, with the tailwind I was running 208 on GPS, had more in it but had to get off the nos button because I was hitting the limiter!
Majority of the reason is wind, Maxton's elevation is 2xx feet above sea level, I think TX was 375 on my GPS? But it was more humid @ TX.
Not sure what you're talking about in terms of downhill.
Having run both on the same bike a week apart, the winds are the biggest difference, 2nd would be the difference in timing system/lights, then 3rd would be the humidity.
A.
A.
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BlackMagic14
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posted April 09, 2007 08:30 PM
I agree the 14 is tuned more for midrange grunt than sustained top end runs but I do know that if you put an arm and a SMEG and Ceramic wheel bearings and a Air Shifter and a 18 tooth front sprocket and a SPEEDOHEALER!!!! on a 14 with a GOOD 150 pound rider you will see 200 at Maxton garunteed barring bad headwinds of course
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salsa1
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posted April 10, 2007 05:40 AM
Edited By: salsa1 on 10 Apr 2007 07:54
Just a thought. the Busa is known and tested to have for superb aerodynamics; superior to the ZX-12..
How aerodynamic is the ZX-14 compared to the Busa..I am a kawasaki fan but when it comes to top end power aerodynamics plays a huge roll in the results ya get..
most you guys discussing this issue know how hard it is to overcome wind resistance with hp as you get upwards toward 200 mph..
Again ; how aerodynamic is the ZX-14? No info has been released concerning this that I can remember at the moment..for sure Kawasaki spent time to make it slippery.. but is it better than a busa.. could make a difference..at very high speeds it can..
I do believe the ZX-14 has more power.. to me no doubt there..a 130 lb female could tuck in very nicely from the wind.. I think we all know that..
have fun. Lets be amiable to folks trying to get info from the forum...I don't like busas a whole lot but still..lets differentiate when to be civil and when dealing with a troll..
my 2 cents..
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smokinzx14
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posted April 10, 2007 07:51 AM
Some people have short memorys... Chad ran 196.1 at Maxton with nothing by an 18 tooth sprocket to fool the speed limiter ...The zx14 had 24 figging miles on it....Now we all know chad is a light weight and a pro rider........Now about Brocks bike going 200 with chad riding it... Brocks mods are just what he said they were... He never touched the motor but to add a new set of clutchs before Maxton.. I have all the same mods as Brocks bike but for the wheel bearing ...As you can see in my sig below it's fast , real fast ... If i put chad on my zx14 at Maxton i'm sure it would go 200 mph but put me on it i would be lucky to go 190 mph..I know on my bike that one little slip up and I lose a 10th of a second in the 1/4 mile ... Maxton or the Tx mile is no different >>One slip up and no 200 mph run...Case in point i have let good riders ( drag racers) make a pass on my bike and can only muster low 9s ...Same bike same set up and same day ...So the way i see it the zx14s will do 190 or 200 with a good rider ... Just as the stock Busa with the gal riding went 187.....end of story
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serius blk
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posted April 10, 2007 08:48 AM
and yea they have already done a test of aero on the 14, busa,zx10,gsx1000. Yes the busa still has better aero than the 14. Its not alot of difference. Also from the magazine they say sliding back in a tuck show better aero than on top of the tank
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1badzx12r
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posted April 10, 2007 09:46 AM
Just as the stock Busa with the gal riding went 187.....
Reason i called BS is simply them stating no zx14 even with mods could hang .... that day..
downhill means just that... is maxton level... how do you know... checked it with a transom
just like texas may be runnin up hill....
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riaansh
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posted April 10, 2007 10:24 AM
Edited By: riaansh on 10 Apr 2007 11:47
quote:
and yea they have already done a test of aero on the 14, busa,zx10,gsx1000. Yes the busa still has better aero than the 14. Its not alot of difference. Also from the magazine they say sliding back in a tuck show better aero than on top of the tank
The other day when I did a top end run, I experienced the the wind resistance first hand. I felt when I tucked in, the bike went faster. And Shane any zx 14 with the right mods will rev to the limiter or very close. In other words close to the 200 mph. I had a busa and mine did not rev at all. I could not hit the the 190 even. Get the BROCK 200 MPH PACKAGE, when you buy the 14. You think you have it bad, I was called a liar for showing how fast the 14 was!!! Butttttt my speed was not official also 
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wrongway
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posted April 10, 2007 10:56 AM
two of us riding 14's at maxton were way bigger than the pro riders. I need an XL jacket and cant fit well behind the faring. We went 179/178 mp in the mile, so there was no way the speed restrictor had anything to do with it. I also had n 18 tooth front sprocket. My best mph in the 1/4 was 140 , so that is almost 15 mph slower than brock and his pro guys can do it , but i think that the aerodynamics has more to do with it than riding style. I am guessing that a rider the size of a child could have gone much faster , but the data log shows that the aero package with me on wasnt going too much faster .
But i bught the bike so I could go fast , not to say that some 120 lb midget could go 200MPH on my bike.
Roy
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shane661
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posted April 10, 2007 02:11 PM
quote:
two of us riding 14's at maxton were way bigger than the pro riders. I need an XL jacket and cant fit well behind the faring. We went 179/178 mp in the mile, so there was no way the speed restrictor had anything to do with it. I also had n 18 tooth front sprocket. My best mph in the 1/4 was 140 , so that is almost 15 mph slower than brock and his pro guys can do it , but i think that the aerodynamics has more to do with it than riding style. I am guessing that a rider the size of a child could have gone much faster , but the data log shows that the aero package with me on wasnt going too much faster .
But i bught the bike so I could go fast , not to say that some 120 lb midget could go 200MPH on my bike.
Roy
I think I remember talking to you in the staging lanes. Black 14 with a data logger? I was on the black/gold 12R. I was tipping the scales at about 250 lbs. suited....I looked like a Rhino riding a Zx-6R. LOL
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wrongway
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posted April 10, 2007 02:34 PM
yeah , that is me. I did make one discovery at the track. Using throttle bodies that were 2mm larger made no difference in top end . This tells me that the intake runners are the restriction now. The zx12 and busa both use 46mm throttle bodies and I bet they both have higher flowing heads to require that.
that would go with the theory that the 14 was designed for higher torque and less top end HP.
But now that I have the larger throttle bodies, I will get the heads on the flow bench and do some porting on them.
that may make more difference than a more radical cam if the intake runners are too small to make good use higher lift or duration.
Roy
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shane661
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posted April 10, 2007 02:46 PM
I recently read that Bob Carpenter said that the 14 head is not as free-flowing as the 12. So, that would be a good start. Did you bore out the stock throttle bodies, or use 12R parts? What about the velocity stacks?
Since everything needs to fit as a package, it sounds like porting and cams would really wake your bike up in a big way. I only ran 177. I changed back to the lower stock screen, and I could not get out of the wind. I was able to turn 184.66 last October with nearly the same setup.
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wrongway
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posted April 10, 2007 03:45 PM
I bored a set of zx14 bodies. I would guess that you would need the larger throttle bodies if you ported the heads. I think I would try just the porting and the throttle bodies and see how much taht helps before I spend money on a set of cams.
Roy
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shiphteey
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posted April 10, 2007 03:54 PM
Hey Roy, its Ali, hows it going? Good talking to you and I will keep the machining info in mind if/when need be! Its always good having a beer (or 2) after the race and chat it up.
Did you ever find any data on the 12 vs 14 aeros? I have been looking but haven't found them both in the same trim in the same wind tunnel at the same time. Maybe comparing the old busa vs 12 wind tunnel test and the newer busa/gixxer thou/zx10/zx14 wind tunnel test to compare? Since the busa is the common bike in both maybe a conversion factor (if there is a difference between the 2 busa readings) can be applied and one could extrapolate the difference between the 12 and 14....
My money is still on the 12.....but hey, I'm biased!
A.
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