Jim K
Expert Class
Posts: 141
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posted April 02, 2007 02:15 PM
 Edited By: Jim K on 2 Apr 2007 15:30
+1 ... No offense... But it $ounds like very expen$ive fun to me!!
"If you want to play you gotta PAY!!!"
"Speed costs, How fast do you want to go?"
In my case I've never had the "Extra" jingle to play around with Turbos and stuff like that. More power to ya if you do!!
Horsepower is like the Domino Effect... First the turbo then the crank, rods, forged pistons... it all leads to DEEP POCKETS!!
Ask Ryan Schnitz, Ricky Gadson, Terry Vance, Kenny Roberts.... how much money THEY spend to "go fast".... you get the picture.
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Never did get the whole "Harley" thing!
  
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Ninja_Knight
Zone Head
Posts: 666
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posted April 02, 2007 03:10 PM
Okay... I have been following this thread very closely, and I believe I understand a great deal of it, but just for clarification did iflyphi have this difficulty due to problems resulting from the turbo system he installed or is it possible for we who choose to remain stock also have to worry about?
Thanks for the post btw iflyphi - - I am real sorry this happened to you and I wish you luck, man!
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2009 B&O Special Edition, Brock's CF Gen 3 Exhaust, Dark Smoke ZG Double Bubble Windshield, PCIII, Muzzy Fan, Heli Risers, Throttlemeister Heavy, Nautilus Stebel Horn, Waiting on HID's and Tinted Signal Lens
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smokinzx14
Needs a life
Posts: 10197
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posted April 02, 2007 03:26 PM
quote:
Okay... I have been following this thread very closely, and I believe I understand a great deal of it, but just for clarification did iflyphi have this difficulty due to problems resulting from the turbo system he installed or is it possible for we who choose to remain stock also have to worry about?
Thanks for the post btw iflyphi - - I am real sorry this happened to you and I wish you luck, man!
You got nothing to worry about ....I have 400+ 1/4 mile passes on mine with no problems....Ride your bike and have fun.........Smokin...
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Smokin Performance Cycles..
Tampa Bay , FL .. Brocks Performance Dealer ..
Gen 2 ZX14R Best ET 8.43 , Best MPH 164.95
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1badzx12r
Needs a life
Posts: 8321
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posted April 02, 2007 03:49 PM
quote:
quote:
i've heard that noise before.....
And......?
then it goes BOOM
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1badzx12r
Needs a life
Posts: 8321
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posted April 02, 2007 03:54 PM
quote:
quote:
The point to all this is that it doesn't appear that the motor in the ZX14 is as bulletproof as (we) all thought.
WE? Who's WE?
so it puts out over 300hp and then you decide it should live it's life at the drag strip in 9 second intervals?
CORRECTION.......................THATS 8 second intervals...
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S06nIz4scvI
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blueford
Needs a job
Posts: 2984
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posted April 02, 2007 04:07 PM
quote:
Okay... I have been following this thread very closely, and I believe I understand a great deal of it, but just for clarification did iflyphi have this difficulty due to problems resulting from the turbo system he installed or is it possible for we who choose to remain stock also have to worry about?
Thanks for the post btw iflyphi - - I am real sorry this happened to you and I wish you luck, man!
No one can say for sure, too many variables, however it's a very high probability that the turbo caused it, but he could rebuild or buy a new engine, make some modifications based on a false assumption (the turbo caused it) and it could happen to him again because the real cause was something else.
That's why racing is so expensive!
And to 1pansy-assedzx12R, his best time was 8.8! I round off! I learned that in college, have you heard of that place?
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1badzx12r
Needs a life
Posts: 8321
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posted April 02, 2007 04:21 PM
quote:
quote:
Okay... I have been following this thread very closely, and I believe I understand a great deal of it, but just for clarification did iflyphi have this difficulty due to problems resulting from the turbo system he installed or is it possible for we who choose to remain stock also have to worry about?
Thanks for the post btw iflyphi - - I am real sorry this happened to you and I wish you luck, man!
No one can say for sure, too many variables, however it's a very high probability that the turbo caused it, but he could rebuild or buy a new engine, make some modifications based on a false assumption (the turbo caused it) and it could happen to him again because the real cause was something else.
That's why racing is so expensive!
And to 1pansy-assedzx12R, his best time was 8.8! I round off! I learned that in college, have you heard of that place?
WELL COLLEGE BOY..... 8.8 is 8.8 not 9.0 in the dragracing world.... but you just know bout drag... as in queen......
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CrotchRocket
Moderator
Bracket Racing with Betsy
Posts: 8038
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posted April 02, 2007 04:39 PM
Hey Iflyphi, If I were you I would give Orient Express a call and talk to Joe Hahn about your situation he will definately help you...
Tell him I sent you!!!
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Jason Miller StreetBike Seminars
*****DragRacers do it better, because they dont cut Corners*****
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blueford
Needs a job
Posts: 2984
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posted April 02, 2007 05:04 PM
[Quote]WELL COLLEGE BOY..... 8.8 is 8.8 not 9.0 in the dragracing world.... but you just know bout drag... as in queen......
Yes, but 1floppypussyzx12r if his best time was 8.8 then it would be logical to assume his less than best times would fall around 9 or higher, would it not, my genius grade school drop out friend? 
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sands
Expert Class
Posts: 151
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posted April 02, 2007 05:21 PM
quote:
Both rod and main bearing are made of the same stuff... copper bass babbit... More than likely it sucked the pan dry and straved the bearing ..Turbo motors are so fast winding up it will empty the pan and fill the head with oil , the oil can't drain back to the pan quick enough.. Having run a few turbos in my days and blown a few of them up i have learned to over fill them by a half a QT of oil...Also we would restrict the oil to the head...... When you spun the tire down the track you drained the pan even faster that you would if it hooked up ..The fix would be a pan that can hold 6 to 7 QTs . A good man to ask about this would be ZRXDean. I'm glad you didn't toss a rod and get hurt .....Smokin..
Interesting and useful info....What about folks that you see doing full throttle throttle blips in neutral ? Can that cause some oil starvation because of the increased pickup of rpm ?
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1badzx12r
Needs a life
Posts: 8321
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posted April 02, 2007 05:30 PM
quote:
[Quote]WELL COLLEGE BOY..... 8.8 is 8.8 not 9.0 in the dragracing world.... but you just know bout drag... as in queen......
Yes, but 1floppypussyzx12r if his best time was 8.8 then it would be logical to assume his less than best times would fall around 9 or higher, would it not, my genius grade school drop out friend?
well genius if smokey would have been riding all that power it be a 7.90....remember 300hp
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smokinzx14
Needs a life
Posts: 10197
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posted April 02, 2007 05:38 PM
1badzx12r please leave my name out of this ...
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Smokin Performance Cycles..
Tampa Bay , FL .. Brocks Performance Dealer ..
Gen 2 ZX14R Best ET 8.43 , Best MPH 164.95
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1badzx12r
Needs a life
Posts: 8321
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posted April 02, 2007 05:42 PM
Edited By: 1badzx12r on 2 Apr 2007 18:44
well smokey if i'd been riding it ... then it would been 12.50's..... i don't know who the cat is on the carpenter yellow bike... but isn't it 8.30's on 225 rwhp or there abouts
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smokinzx14
Needs a life
Posts: 10197
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posted April 02, 2007 05:44 PM
Edited By: smokinzx14 on 2 Apr 2007 18:45
quote:
well smokey if i'd been riding it ... then it would been 12.50's
That's better ... kind of ......
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Smokin Performance Cycles..
Tampa Bay , FL .. Brocks Performance Dealer ..
Gen 2 ZX14R Best ET 8.43 , Best MPH 164.95
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1badzx12r
Needs a life
Posts: 8321
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posted April 02, 2007 05:45 PM
Edited By: 1badzx12r on 2 Apr 2007 19:06
quote:
quote:
well smokey if i'd been riding it ... then it would been 12.50's
That's better ... kind of ......
bracket racing.... see who breaks out...
i just think its a shame we never got to see how fast that bike was this year
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iflyphi
Zone Head
Posts: 542
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posted April 03, 2007 09:32 AM
I spoke to Harry at ATP this morning and he has convinced me to just rebuild the motor I have now. Harry will be doing the work, in conjunction with Orient Express. When its done, the motor will truly be bulletproof.
Also, my knickname will be changing to iflyems due to a major job change/upgrade.
Stay tuned.
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1badzx12r
Needs a life
Posts: 8321
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posted April 03, 2007 11:03 AM
Edited By: 1badzx12r on 3 Apr 2007 12:04
you know ifly... i just don't buy the turbo spinning up and empty the oil pan.... rpm is rpm nothin changed cause you add a turbo.... when you pull the bearings look for a blockage
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smokinzx14
Needs a life
Posts: 10197
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posted April 03, 2007 11:13 AM
Edited By: smokinzx14 on 3 Apr 2007 12:19
quote:
you know ifly... i just don't buy the turbo spinning up and empty the oil pan.... rpm is rpm nothin changed cause you add a turbo.... when you pull the bearings look for a blockage
OK i try to school ya .............Non turbo bike (mine) goes though the straps at 154 mph ....Turbo bike goes 168 .....The RPMs on the turbo bike are much faster ... get the picture?? He ran 8.80 ... I ran 8.80 So the same amount of time passes for both runs but his motor was at higher RPMs and MPH quicker than mine with the same amount of oil .....Meaning the motor has less to recover the oil from the higher RPMs...Oil is going to Drain back at the same speed and time on both motors...The pump speed is going to be faster and quicker on his bike but drain back time will be the same ..Meaning he ran out of oil ....End of story...
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Smokin Performance Cycles..
Tampa Bay , FL .. Brocks Performance Dealer ..
Gen 2 ZX14R Best ET 8.43 , Best MPH 164.95
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1badzx12r
Needs a life
Posts: 8321
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posted April 03, 2007 11:16 AM
quote:
quote:
you know ifly... i just don't buy the turbo spinning up and empty the oil pan.... rpm is rpm nothin changed cause you add a turbo.... when you pull the bearings look for a blockage
OK i try to school ya .............Non turbo bike (mine) goes though the straps at 154 mph ....Turbo bike goes 168 .....The RPMs on the turbo bike are much higher and faster ... get the picture?? He ran 8.80 ... I ran 8.80 So the same amount of time passes for both runs but his motor was at higher RPMs and MPH .....Meaning the motor has less to recover the oil from the higher RPMs...
i like schooling... ok sounds goods... but whats the differance if i hammer my bike in 1st gear and hold it at 11k... its still flowing oil
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1badzx12r
Needs a life
Posts: 8321
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posted April 03, 2007 11:18 AM
Edited By: 1badzx12r on 3 Apr 2007 12:19
i don't know the oil flowing system on a zx14 ... but wouldn't the last ports go 1st if oil starve... i don't know if its flowing 1 to 4 or if its split
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1badzx12r
Needs a life
Posts: 8321
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posted April 03, 2007 11:28 AM
what would screen out a particle ( say a clutch fiber) from getting into a port... i know the oil pump picks up and goes thru the oil filter then to the ports .... but is there a way around that we might not know of without taking a zx14 motor apart and looking ...
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smokinzx14
Needs a life
Posts: 10197
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posted April 03, 2007 11:29 AM
quote:
quote:
quote:
you know ifly... i just don't buy the turbo spinning up and empty the oil pan.... rpm is rpm nothin changed cause you add a turbo.... when you pull the bearings look for a blockage
OK i try to school ya .............Non turbo bike (mine) goes though the straps at 154 mph ....Turbo bike goes 168 .....The RPMs on the turbo bike are much higher and faster ... get the picture?? He ran 8.80 ... I ran 8.80 So the same amount of time passes for both runs but his motor was at higher RPMs and MPH .....Meaning the motor has less to recover the oil from the higher RPMs...
i like schooling... ok sounds goods... but whats the differance if i hammer my bike in 1st gear and hold it at 11k... its still flowing oil
Yep still flowing oil but only if it can drain back fast enough to refill the pan ...How long do you think at 11k the motor will last ??? An hour? 10 mins ?....... Look at it this way > would you build a prostock motor ( car) and use a 5 QT pan ? No you need at least 15 QTs .... Proven fact that a motor will hold 2 to 3 QTs in the top end at high RPMs and hold another 1 to 2 QTs spinning around the crank shaft ... so you got 4 QTs stuck in the motor and maybe another around the trans gears ... what do you have left for the oil pump ? You can pump all the oil you want as fast as you want but the drain back time is still the same ( slow) ..Thats why he needs extra oil..
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Smokin Performance Cycles..
Tampa Bay , FL .. Brocks Performance Dealer ..
Gen 2 ZX14R Best ET 8.43 , Best MPH 164.95
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smokinzx14
Needs a life
Posts: 10197
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posted April 03, 2007 11:34 AM
quote:
what would screen out a particle ( say a clutch fiber) from getting into a port... i know the oil pump picks up and goes thru the oil filter then to the ports .... but is there a way around that we might not know of without taking a zx14 motor apart and looking ...
I can only tell you what i know and have seen from years of running turbo motors. All turbo motors have this problem and most that are racing have taken out rod bearings... Guys that just ride on the street don't realy have this problem because they are never full out like the drag racers ...
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Smokin Performance Cycles..
Tampa Bay , FL .. Brocks Performance Dealer ..
Gen 2 ZX14R Best ET 8.43 , Best MPH 164.95
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1badzx12r
Needs a life
Posts: 8321
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posted April 03, 2007 11:43 AM
quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
you know ifly... i just don't buy the turbo spinning up and empty the oil pan.... rpm is rpm nothin changed cause you add a turbo.... when you pull the bearings look for a blockage
OK i try to school ya .............Non turbo bike (mine) goes though the straps at 154 mph ....Turbo bike goes 168 .....The RPMs on the turbo bike are much higher and faster ... get the picture?? He ran 8.80 ... I ran 8.80 So the same amount of time passes for both runs but his motor was at higher RPMs and MPH .....Meaning the motor has less to recover the oil from the higher RPMs...
i like schooling... ok sounds goods... but whats the differance if i hammer my bike in 1st gear and hold it at 11k... its still flowing oil
Yep still flowing oil but only if it can drain back fast enough to refill the pan ...How long do you think at 11k the motor will last ??? An hour? 10 mins ?....... Look at it this way > would you build a prostock motor ( car) and use a 5 QT pan ? No you need at least 15 QTs .... Proven fact that a motor will hold 2 to 3 QTs in the top end at high RPMs and hold another 1 to 2 QTs spinning around the crank shaft ... so you got 4 QTs stuck in the motor and maybe another around the trans gears ... what do you have left for the oil pump ? You can pump all the oil you want as fast as you want but the drain back time is still the same ( slow) ..Thats why he needs extra oil..
yes i understand smokey on the cars.... but what i'm saying is hammer my bike for 9 seconds at 11k and his at same rate... rpm stays the same for 5 seconds ... i guess the key is when he stated he ran his oil in the half mark.... cause just changing oil and fire up bike oil drops out of sight in the glass ... and thats at full mark... any rpm rev's and oil jumps up and down in sight glass
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1badzx12r
Needs a life
Posts: 8321
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posted April 03, 2007 11:45 AM
quote:
quote:
what would screen out a particle ( say a clutch fiber) from getting into a port... i know the oil pump picks up and goes thru the oil filter then to the ports .... but is there a way around that we might not know of without taking a zx14 motor apart and looking ...
I can only tell you what i know and have seen from years of running turbo motors. All turbo motors have this problem and most that are racing have taken out rod bearings... Guys that just ride on the street don't realy have this problem because they are never full out like the drag racers ...
i was looking the oil pan over real hard and i wonder if the oil drain bolt that was replaced ... could have ...
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