posted April 01, 2007 02:27 PM
Edited By: iflyphi on 1 Apr 2007 16:28
Spun a main bearing last night It was my third pass, nothing special about it. Spun the tire in the first three gears, then it hooked. Ran a low 9 at 155. Turned onto the return road and heard a loud knocking sound coming from the lower left hand side of the engine, so I put the bike in the trailer and headed home.
Hears some vid, and the pics of the oil pan.
The point to all this is that it doesn't appear that the motor in the ZX14 is as bulletproof as we all thought. I was only running 7lbs of boost, and 118 octane race gas. The bike never detonated, and didn't sound any different. I've made about 20 passes down the strip so far, and about 20 dyno runs to over 305hp. Best et was 8.80@168.
Looks like I'm probably done for the season. Gonna try and buy a used motor, then wait a bit to see if others have this problem, and see what the fix is. I don't want to buy a motor and have the exact same thing happen again.
Heres the last pic of the bike, with the original engine;
posted April 01, 2007 02:58 PM
Man damn, I am sorry to hear this. Heck it keeps things in perspective too as I was set on getting a kit this year as well. What kinda oil do you use?
____________
Black '06 ZX-14
posted April 01, 2007 03:25 PM
Edited By: ricksgsxr on 1 Apr 2007 16:31
Sorry to hear the damage.
Seems like some turbos (busa's/1000's) never an issue than others this is common. A couple local ones built by a now no longer Velocity distributer one puked rods twice the other four times.
Were you running a boost controller? I think that is plus. The one turbo busa (built to the max) I rode anywhere from 8lbs to 28lbs when the turbo hit it was a rush. Maybe the cases flexing, a lot of power all at once hitting.
I like turbo's just think they require a special mind set, pickier to tune ups and a large pocketbook and need some more r/d for bike motors that is just my non mechanical educated observation.
Those econo import cars can take huge boost and spray on there lil 4 bangers -I know some don't but my point is the car turbo's seem to have it figured out and a lot cheaper too.
i was expecting to hear Ah FUCK at the end of that vid. Lil humor but honesty sorry to hear the news. Even built motors can have bad luck mine (1k) well tahts a long story..
posted April 01, 2007 03:30 PM
I used Castrol full synthetic 5w/50. It appears its not a rod bearing, but one or more of the main bearings of the crankshaft. Those are replaceable, and hopefully the damage isn't too great.
Now the question is; is it cheaper to replace the main bearings or buy a used motor??
And no, I won't be trying this one myself, I will have to pay someone to do it.
posted April 01, 2007 03:45 PM
Because I don't have the time/patience/intelligence to do it.
The material used in the main bearings is a brass type material, and that's whats in the oil pan. I inspected the rods, and they appear to be fine. They use a different material in the rod bearings, and if it was one of those, I would probably have seized up, which would have been very interesting as I passed through the speed traps at 155mph.
posted April 01, 2007 04:11 PM
Both rod and main bearing are made of the same stuff... copper bass babbit... More than likely it sucked the pan dry and straved the bearing ..Turbo motors are so fast winding up it will empty the pan and fill the head with oil , the oil can't drain back to the pan quick enough.. Having run a few turbos in my days and blown a few of them up i have learned to over fill them by a half a QT of oil...Also we would restrict the oil to the head...... When you spun the tire down the track you drained the pan even faster that you would if it hooked up ..The fix would be a pan that can hold 6 to 7 QTs . A good man to ask about this would be ZRXDean. I'm glad you didn't toss a rod and get hurt .....Smokin..
____________
Smokin Performance Cycles..
Tampa Bay , FL .. Brocks Performance Dealer ..
Gen 2 ZX14R Best ET 8.43 , Best MPH 164.95
posted April 01, 2007 04:20 PM
I had it filled a little over the half mark, but that makes sense. Still not sure if its rod or crank bearings, but I inspected the rods as best I could, and didn't see any damage.
There no ground clearance now on the ZX14, adding a bigger oil pan wouldn't work. Looks like its time for a dry sump system.
Thanks for the explanation Lee, that makes perfect sense.
quote:I had it filled a little over the half mark, but that makes sense. Still not sure if its rod or crank bearings, but I inspected the rods as best I could, and didn't see any damage.
There no ground clearance now on the ZX14, adding a bigger oil pan wouldn't work. Looks like its time for a dry sump system.
Thanks for the explanation Lee, that makes perfect sense.
you are welcome ... you have a new PM .... Smokin ...
____________
Smokin Performance Cycles..
Tampa Bay , FL .. Brocks Performance Dealer ..
Gen 2 ZX14R Best ET 8.43 , Best MPH 164.95
posted April 01, 2007 06:46 PM
Man I was hoping for an April Fools line or something.
I really hate it for you, I enjoyed your build-up and was looking forward to more passes.
Good luck on your rebuild.
Dan
posted April 01, 2007 07:11 PM
Sorry to hear (and see) about your problem!!! What a tough break. I hope that you are able to at least get it back running so you can enjoy it at least a little this year!! Good Luck to you!
But your statement:
"The point to all this is that it doesn't appear that the motor in the ZX14 is as bulletproof as we all thought"
Is that accurate, or did some aftermarket mods prove to be stronger than a bullet? I know folks squirting and torturing their motors for gazillions of passes and they do appear close to bullet-proof from what I've seen?
____________
2010 Concours14
'08 R1 YAMAHA
ZX14 gone!
CBR600RR track bike
posted April 01, 2007 09:22 PM
Edited By: dubious on 1 Apr 2007 22:24
Man that really sux, sorry to hear it.
Just food for thought...
some of the busa and gsxr pans come with swiveling pick up tube, so the oil pump stays primed, under hard accelleration....
I would hate to hear of it re-occuring.
I would get in touch with some of the experienced 14 engine builders, Coby, Bob Carpenter, Schnitz etc and ask for their experinces with bottom end longevity.
Certainly a few have blown up.... err they have likely blown a few up.
Well might as well stroke it , and throw pistons and carillo's in her while your at it....
Never overbore turbo engines... not reliable, but strokers are alot of fun!
The zx11, was known for spinning rod brgs, if you look around, I beleive... I think it was MR Turbo, sold oil pumps etc...
quote:Because I don't have the time/patience/intelligence to do it.
The material used in the main bearings is a brass type material, and that's whats in the oil pan. I inspected the rods, and they appear to be fine. They use a different material in the rod bearings, and if it was one of those, I would probably have seized up, which would have been very interesting as I passed through the speed traps at 155mph.
hey man,
i wasn't getting on yer case, i am VERY sympathetic and know the tapping sound all too well. And I have locked up at 155 right after the traps; fun ride, yes indeed.
Running a 300hp turbo on the 1/4 mile is not a program for the faint-hearted.
I have seen several folks go broke trying to do it.
Are you data logging? If so, it would be good to see what yr oil pressure is doing. As said above, the drag start will uncover the pickup and give very lo oil pressure for a couple sec. Also, 12's without a swing pickup will uncover the pickup again at the big end on decel; don't know about 14's.
Good luck!
____________
This moderator uses moderation in moderation
quote:how do you know its a main?
why not just pull the motor and take it down?
doesn't take that many tools, and you will know for sure what it is.
From what he told me - upon start up the bike does not allways make noise
untill he revs it (flexing the crank) If it were a rod bearing it would knock rite
away.
posted April 02, 2007 04:35 AM
Sorry to hear it man,but these things happen...
Its all a part of racing or chasing horsepower...
Nothings bulletproof,i always go with your motor is as good as the cheapest/worst
quality part you put in it...
Hopefully it doesnt set you back to much to repair,take it easy..
posted April 02, 2007 08:19 AM
We think this is directly related to oil starvation. The turbo spins the motor up so quickly that its hard for the pump to keep up, and there just not enough oil to go around.
When I spun the tire in 3 gears, this allowed the motor to spin up much faster than normal. This basically emptied the oil pan, and starved the lower bearings for oil.
It had probably happened several times in the past, the damage just accumulated until I heard the knock.
Searching now for a deeper pan, or a dry sump system.
posted April 02, 2007 08:28 AM
Just a thought.... maybe an oil accumalator would solve the problem if it is starving for oil. They fill with oil on start -up and stay full untill the pressure drops and then feed the oil back to the engine. I have seen accumalators on cars that would hold two quarts.
Sam
quote:The point to all this is that it doesn't appear that the motor in the ZX14 is as bulletproof as (we) all thought.
WE? Who's WE?
Let me get this right, you buy a mass produced Japanese motorcycle designed to make about 190hp at the crank for say 10 grand and then you force feed it some pressurized air so it puts out over 300hp and then you decide it should live it's life at the drag strip in 9 second intervals?
Okay, so what was your expectation? You could run it 3 years like that with no problems? How about 400 or 500hp, at what point, would you think, maybe I might have a problem doing this?
All times are America/Va [ This thread is 4 pages long: 1234Next» ]
HOME
NEW TOPIC
posted April 01, 2007 02:27 PM
Edited By: 
