baboyonabatoy
Novice Class
Posts: 32
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posted March 18, 2007 04:38 PM
gear indicator
Has anyone besides myself had a problem with the gear indicator changing from 6th to 5th after shifting to 6th and sometimes reading 4th when in 5th? I can pull the clutch in and apply upshift pressure to the shifter and it will read 6th again then change to 5th.
  
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Jim K
Expert Class
Posts: 141
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posted March 18, 2007 04:53 PM
Not Me.
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Never did get the whole "Harley" thing!
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Xtremespeed
Expert Class
Posts: 415
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posted March 18, 2007 05:40 PM
You have a speedohealer or different sprockets?
It's very common. No one seems to know how to fix it.
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When in doubt, Flick it!
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ninja14
Pro
Posts: 1136
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posted March 18, 2007 07:33 PM
There is no "fix" as the healer is feeding the ECU false info to keep the speedo "correct"
If you stay at 16/42 or closer to stock you can prevent the problem, but 16/43 will do it.......I've learned to live with it - and the indicater has no real value anyway other than maybe preventing one from trying to go into 7th. I'm almost positive though that it does make a diff to the ECU b/c when I did my AF test on the road there seemed to be a change as the ECU did the "flip-flop," but it was hard to tell. Even stock you will see it do the "flip-flop" now and then. If I clutch in to let the RPM's drop while maintaining road speed it will indicate the correct gear - proof that it is being calculated vs. simply switched.
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3Boysand3Bikes
Expert Class
Posts: 382
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posted March 18, 2007 09:30 PM
I agree with ninja14.. although mine has the stock gears and no speedhealer... mine does it once in awhile.. but it seems that it is just as I shift for only a few seconds... and then it stays correct. I have not had it do it in 4th.. although I really don't spend much time in 4th to really check it out. Has yours done it since it was new?? and... is it getting worse??
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BobC
Pro
Posts: 1736
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posted March 19, 2007 01:14 AM
 Edited By: BobC on 19 Mar 2007 05:39
According to the workshop manual the gear position information is from a network of resistors. Are you suggesting that speedo pulse information and/or engine rpm is something to do with it too? I would have thought that if you coast to a halt with the clutch disengaged in any gear it would still show that gear, independent of rpm or actual speed. I'm geared up 18/41 with no problems in indicating the correct gear. Even with the Speedo Healer set to convert kph to mph and the speedo under-reading by 38% it still indicates the gear correctly. It's more likely to be a high resistance connector or something.
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Candy Thunder Blue 2006 ZZR1400
Stock wheelbase
Max: 205.4 mph in 1.25 miles
2012 ZZR1400 in Golden Blazed Green
Brock CT Full System. etc
Max: 203.1 in 1 mile (so far)
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Xtremespeed
Expert Class
Posts: 415
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posted March 19, 2007 05:23 AM
I still have the factory sprockets and only use the speedohealer for speedometer correction and mine does it as well. You are correct, that if you stop, it will read properly, but when you are moving it looks at the rpm and the gear position. I can pull the clutch in and let the rpm's drop and it will show the correct gear. I only have it set to -7.5%.
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When in doubt, Flick it!
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zerMATT
Pro
Posts: 1931
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posted March 19, 2007 06:52 AM
I have that problem too - speedo healer set at -6.5%, and I tyipcally see delays in the gear position updating. It was there slightly before the healer, but it's definitely worse with the healer. I guess that's the price we pay for having a correct (ish) speedo.
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'06 Passion Red ZX-14 | Black D&D Slip-ons | Speedo Healer | V1 | zumo 550 | Heli-Risers | PhantomX
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BAboyonaBAtoy
Novice Class
Posts: 32
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posted March 19, 2007 02:39 PM
My problem started a long time after I installed the speedo healer and changed the sprocket. At first it only did it every now & then now it does it all the time. I ride with five other ZX14 riders all with healers and a couple with sprocket change also and neither one of them has this problem. I checked the resistance @ the gear position switch in each gear as described in the service manual and the only gear that was within specs was the gear that I'm having the problem in,6th.
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Xtremespeed
Expert Class
Posts: 415
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posted March 19, 2007 03:25 PM
Resistance values tend to be worthless except to check continuity.
Temperature and humidity can skew the numbers quite a bit. Seems
strange it got worse though. And I'm baffled by the fact that some don't
have the problem. What gives?
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When in doubt, Flick it!
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B True
Novice Class
Posts: 69
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posted March 19, 2007 05:54 PM
Gentlemen,
I could be wrong but I don't think it has anything to do with the speedohealer; mine was doing it before I even had the speedohealer. Now, I did start noticing it after I changed my front sprocket. I think it had something to do with me changing my front sprocket.
just my .2
B True
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To be true to others; one must first be true to himself
Muzzy Carbon fiber exhaust, PC III, SpeedHealer,
16-42 gearing, BST Wheels, CF fairing, Corbin
Seat, Puig windshield, Dyno LCD purchased but
not on yet
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ninja14
Pro
Posts: 1136
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posted March 19, 2007 06:00 PM
quote:
According to the workshop manual the gear position information is from a network of resistors. Are you suggesting that speedo pulse information and/or engine rpm is something to do with it too? I would have thought that if you coast to a halt with the clutch disengaged in any gear it would still show that gear, independent of rpm or actual speed. I'm geared up 18/41 with no problems in indicating the correct gear. Even with the Speedo Healer set to convert kph to mph and the speedo under-reading by 38% it still indicates the gear correctly. It's more likely to be a high resistance connector or something.
Exactly.......there is more to it than just the resisitors, but no way to know what is going on......the indicator is fed by the CAN from the ECU and not directly from those resistors. As I said.....I am able to get it to read correctly once moving and then bring the RPM's to an area where the ECU throws the right number to the indicator .......for as long as I am within whatever it considers acceptable.
I don't really care as I shift by sound anyway..........unless I hit the limiter first :-)
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BAboyonaBAtoy
Novice Class
Posts: 32
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posted March 20, 2007 04:54 AM
Thanks for the feedback guys, at least now I know I'm not the only one having the problem.
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Xtremespeed
Expert Class
Posts: 415
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posted March 20, 2007 09:07 AM
I never had the problem before the speedohealer. Anything that changes the speed vs. rpm will affect it. Speedohealer, sprockets, and worn tires I assume.
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When in doubt, Flick it!
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ninja14
Pro
Posts: 1136
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posted March 20, 2007 09:20 AM
I'm guessing that normal things (tire wear etc) are taken into account, but a big change in % goes too far. It's one of those things that is just great .....until you throw mods at it :-)
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Xtremespeed
Expert Class
Posts: 415
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posted March 20, 2007 03:37 PM
The reason I said tire wear is because some people seem to be having the
problem without any mods. I wish there was a way to monitor the computer
inputs while riding. I think it's strange that it will show the correct gear (any 1-6)
when stopped but not when moving.It's like it disregards the gear position input
when you are moving and the rpm is different than some programmed value. That
would not make sense, but that's how it appears to work. Why would they go through
the trouble of using speed and rpm when they already had a gear position sensor?
Welcome to the department of redundancy department. Lol!
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When in doubt, Flick it!
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Xtremespeed
Expert Class
Posts: 415
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posted March 20, 2007 03:54 PM
Does anyone know what data for the cluster is transmitted via CAN.
I don't think everything in the cluster is CAN. Maybe this will give us
an idea of why it compares the speed and rpm. If the CAN line carries
all this info, the gear indicator may actually see all the info. Maybe not.
Just thinking out loud.
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When in doubt, Flick it!
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ninja14
Pro
Posts: 1136
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posted March 20, 2007 03:56 PM
Edited By: ninja14 on 20 Mar 2007 16:57
^......All the DFI shit+......I'd have to get my chart........
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Xtremespeed
Expert Class
Posts: 415
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posted March 20, 2007 04:17 PM
What chart? Is there one in the manual? I'm still waiting on mine. Should be here this week.
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When in doubt, Flick it!
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Xtremespeed
Expert Class
Posts: 415
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posted March 21, 2007 05:21 PM
Got my manual today and found this info
Data is transmitted from the two nodes-the ECU and meter unit-on the CAN bus and does not
contain specific bus addresses of either node.
Instead, the content of a data stream, such as engine rpm, is labeled with an identifier that is unique
throughout the network. All nodes on the network receive the data and each performs an acceptance
test on the identifier to determine if the message (and its data) is relevant to that particular node.
If a message is relevant to a particular node (meter unit), it will be processed and displayed otherwise
it is ignored.
The CAN data that is transmitted from the ECU to the meter unit are engine rpm, water temperature,
gear position, starter lockout switch, self-diagnosis information and *fuel injected volume.
And the data transmitted from the meter to the ECU is vehicle speed.
*Fuel injected volume is converted into the fuel consumption by the meter unit.
It appears I was right. The gear indicator sees all the data and decides what is relevant. We have to figure out how to make the indicator think rpm is irrelevant. Bet that's going to be easy.
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When in doubt, Flick it!
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ninja14
Pro
Posts: 1136
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posted March 21, 2007 09:16 PM
See what I mean......not worth the effort.....just shift when you need to - doesn't matter what gear it is.....
Long as I have the N light I got enough :-)
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Xtremespeed
Expert Class
Posts: 415
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posted March 22, 2007 03:41 AM
Can't stand it. It's on the bike and doesn't work. Arrgh! Just how I am.
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When in doubt, Flick it!
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