BobC
Pro
Posts: 1736
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posted March 01, 2007 05:25 AM
 Edited By: BobC on 1 Mar 2007 05:29
Flies - The PC difference
I had my 14 (TiForce 4:1 plus Power Commander) re-mapped this morning after removing the secondary butterflies. Before the dyno' session I had felt the immediate improvement in low end power that removing the'flies gives but we found another 10bhp and 10ftlbs at 3000rpm by careful mapping. Now it gives 80bhp and 47.5ftlbs at 3000 rpm and pulls like the proverbial tractor.
So, ignoring the debate about A/F ratios for a moment, it has been worth the money. There is a good power and torque gain all the way up to peak torque at around 7700rpm where the old and new power curves merge.
I'm still running 18/41 gearing and it feels lively, shortly going to 17/40 which should still give me the top speed I require and will feel even livlier. Life must be really exciting for you guys running 16t sprockets.
  
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dubious
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Needs more time to ride!
Posts: 8442
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posted March 01, 2007 05:44 AM
I am sure many others have noticed the same, a good map made the bottom end power increases feel on par with the pipe, and the yes the 16 tooth is really nice addition, even though the mechanical advantage is only 6% over the 17/41 combo, it feels like double that.
Makes for nice power slides in lower gears!
____________
natural selection.....
destiny will overcome intervention.
Some are not worthy of the effort.
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blackbullet76
Pro
Posts: 1134
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posted March 01, 2007 06:58 AM
Not to ass rape your thread, but I have a friend with an 05 R1 and he went down one tooth in the front and up two teeth in the back. I rode it like that and it used to scare me. Yesterday, I met up with him and I wanted him to ride my 14, so we swapped bikes and went to a straight stretch. I took off first and went full twist once I clicked up a couple gears and it felt like a 600cc to me, I guess where I've been getting used to my 14. I got up to 130mph and looked in the mirror and he was right on my ass. We slowed down and got to a red light. I asked him what he thought and he said that thing pulled like a mule! I knew he would like it. Just thought I'd share that. I can't imagine the 14 with a smaller sprocket on the front. Maybe after I get used to it more.
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zx14r191
Novice Class
Posts: 54
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posted March 02, 2007 08:02 PM
Interesting stuff!! Apart from the 14 I have an 04 R1 I use for racing. It is geared similar to what you describe and there is no way the 14 walks away. May be after 150-160 where aerodynamics come in. Trust me, i love the 14 but the numbers don't lie - R1 close to 100lbs less (~~ 20%) may be 10-12% less peak rwhp.
S.
____________
06 ZX14
04 R1 - race bike
01 R1 - big bore stroker - 191 rwhp
06 ZX6R - wife's
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1badzx12r
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posted March 02, 2007 09:10 PM
quote:
Interesting stuff!! Apart from the 14 I have an 04 R1 I use for racing. It is geared similar to what you describe and there is no way the 14 walks away. May be after 150-160 where aerodynamics come in. Trust me, i love the 14 but the numbers don't lie - R1 close to 100lbs less (~~ 20%) may be 10-12% less peak rwhp.
S.
+1 and i only have a zx10
____________
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S06nIz4scvI
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dubious
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Posts: 8442
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posted March 02, 2007 10:11 PM
Edited By: dubious on 2 Mar 2007 22:12
quote:
quote:
Interesting stuff!! Apart from the 14 I have an 04 R1 I use for racing. It is geared similar to what you describe and there is no way the 14 walks away. May be after 150-160 where aerodynamics come in. Trust me, i love the 14 but the numbers don't lie - R1 close to 100lbs less (~~ 20%) may be 10-12% less peak rwhp.
S.
+1 and i only have a zx10
-----------------
Lets not become dilusional, or compare apples to oranges.
The mechanical advantage of the stock 14 is 50% more of the zx10 in 1st gear, as any informed riders would have read in SPORT RIDER MAGAZINE.
August 2006 issue page 36 if they would like to KNOW the truth!
An excerpt from that very editorial:
Quote"Yes, the zx10r is one seriosly quick literbike, but an example of how strong the zx-14 is can bee seen on the thrust graph. Note the zx14 is accellerating harder at the top of second gear than the zx10 is in FIRST gear, ... and the advantage continues through the rest of the gearbox" unquote
Also noted is the zx14 is geared for 10 mph higher top speed, gear them for equal top speed and the brute torque and HP becomes even more apparent in accelation competitions.
The infamous 1badzx12...
Trolled the other site for months before, said he sold his 14, blah blah blah.
Then they catch him riding his 14 months later.
You need some fresh bait 1sadzx12 
LOL
Now you compare the accelleration of a bike geared for 150 mph, with one geared taller than its 186 mph speed limiter will allow it to acheive!
Thats an accurate comparison....
Doy ! 
OK here's one for ya...
On top of some hard facts, I will tell my story too...
My friend has an r1 -1 tooth frt, +2 teeth rear, and weighs 40 lb less than me.
My 14 stock gearing , no STP's, smeg and pc3 pulled away everytime during roll ons.
Off the line I spanked his ass squarley everytime.
His bike would wheelie everytime, as I pulled away, and from dead stops I jumped off the line and just continued to pull away.
The lower 1st gear coupled with low center of gravity of the 14 is a superior launch bike.
PERIOD.
Not to mention the R1 clutch was toast after 8 hard launches.
BTW, when I geared mine for 178 MPH, 16-41, and raced the r-1 geared for 150, (and a new clutch LMFAO ) I anhialated him.
I was in 3rd gear 10 bike lengths on him and he was still in 2nd gear!
In fact I think I was in second gear pulling away and he was still in first struggling to keep the front end down.
Yes the r-1 corners better, yes it is 100 lbs lighter, yes it is wheelie prone, yes it has a clutch that belongs in a 600, yes it was NOT designed for dragracing, comfort, distance touring , or 2 up riding.
Yes the 14 is heavy, corners worse, wheelies less, makes more torque, has lower 1st gear, has taller top gearing (than the r1 could ever pull!) has lower c.g., has front biased weight, comfy ergo's, good for 2 up, draggin, tourin and is more versatile.
The 1000's are meant for corners more than drags.
The 14 is meant for drags more than corners.
Either way one bike or the other has its advantages, and compromises.
Choose the bike for your discipline, then swallow some pride when you travel outside the main objective of the bike you ride!
Internet racing is silly.
Lets try to stick to hard facts, editorials etc.
Live to ride, love whatever you ride...
____________
natural selection.....
destiny will overcome intervention.
Some are not worthy of the effort.
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BobC
Pro
Posts: 1736
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posted March 02, 2007 11:37 PM
Thanks for that Dubious, I agree with every word. Anything I post on here is either a question or information. If it's information then it's just that, plain and simple. None of that "my bikes quicker than yours" crap. I let my riding do the talking and others should do the same if they want to be taken seriously.
____________
Candy Thunder Blue 2006 ZZR1400
Stock wheelbase
Max: 205.4 mph in 1.25 miles
2012 ZZR1400 in Golden Blazed Green
Brock CT Full System. etc
Max: 203.1 in 1 mile (so far)
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blackbullet76
Pro
Posts: 1134
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posted March 03, 2007 05:30 AM
That's what I was comparing, my experience on his R1 to my 14. I felt more thrust on my 14 than I did on his R1. I didn't say that the R1 was weak, I just said that it wasn't pulling like the 14 and that it felt weaker where I had gotten used to my 14. The R1 is a great bike and I would love to have one. It's more comfortable than the 10r to me.
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zx14r191
Novice Class
Posts: 54
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posted March 03, 2007 03:27 PM
Sorry, was not trying to ruffle feathers!!! I was merely trying to give my opinion since I am fortunate to own the bikes being discussed. They are all great bikes!
S.
____________
06 ZX14
04 R1 - race bike
01 R1 - big bore stroker - 191 rwhp
06 ZX6R - wife's
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stevewfl
Moderator
Posts: 27920
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posted March 03, 2007 08:13 PM
dubious that was a great post, thanks man
____________
2010 Concours14
'08 R1 YAMAHA
ZX14 gone!
CBR600RR track bike
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ninja14
Pro
Posts: 1136
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posted March 04, 2007 01:47 AM
My 05R1 with a -1 front was not really scary, but the ZX14 with the 16/43(-1/+2) will really get your attention. I went down the strip for the first time in my life and that bike is nuts. I can't launch yet,but they were saying that when I hit 2nd it was amazing for a bike that just rode up and let some air out of the rear tire :-) TQ rules......
As for the PC issue: Yep the map helps,but I never got a lean reading while riding w/o flies and no PC. Matter of fact - the PC has been sitting here next to the computer since those AF test a couple months ago and only goes back on this coming Tue w/ the turbo......
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riaansh
Expert Class
Posts: 195
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posted March 04, 2007 02:03 AM
quote:
My 05R1 with a -1 front was not really scary, but the ZX14 with the 16/43(-1/+2) will really get your attention. I went down the strip for the first time in my life and that bike is nuts. I can't launch yet,but they were saying that when I hit 2nd it was amazing for a bike that just rode up and let some air out of the rear tire :-) TQ rules......
As for the PC issue: Yep the map helps,but I never got a lean reading while riding w/o flies and no PC. Matter of fact - the PC has been sitting here next to the computer since those AF test a couple months ago and only goes back on this coming Tue w/ the turbo......
Do you think it's better without the pc, or haven't you fitted it yet?
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the_other_big_mike
Expert Class
Posts: 152
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posted March 04, 2007 04:58 AM
quote:
dubious that was a great post, thanks man
+1
I continue to learn.......Thanks..
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blackbullet76
Pro
Posts: 1134
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posted March 04, 2007 06:19 AM
I'd say the bike might be a little lean at part throttle with no pc and no flies. But at WOT, it should be fine. I have a pc installed on mine (and no flies) with a map a guy made with a wideband setup. It runs great. I haven't tried it without the pc.
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ninja14
Pro
Posts: 1136
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posted March 04, 2007 09:27 AM
I was watching the wideband for the whole ride........in town, highway and twisties. It never got lean to the point of danger, but it is better to use the PC and tune it right.
The test
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dubious
Needs a life
Needs more time to ride!
Posts: 8442
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posted March 04, 2007 10:31 AM
Glad to oblige!  .
I love all bikes..... period!
Faster the better,
Truth is the best though!
____________
natural selection.....
destiny will overcome intervention.
Some are not worthy of the effort.
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