raband
Expert Class
Posts: 121
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posted February 23, 2007 04:58 AM
Flies out for street use
Hey guys - new member and new ZX14 owner from Melbourne Australia.
Have been trolling these forums since I discovered the bike though.
Have had the bike 3 weeks and am up to 2500kms.
Done first service.
Have Remus end cans on it since new.
Backfires on deceleration.
Pulls serious strength on acceleration.
Last bike was a VTR1000 (30,000kms in 1 year)
Before that was a CBR1100XX. (100,000kms in 3 years)
Am still coming to terms with this new machine and the power it puts out, but am pretty convinced that it is severely hobbled down low - is pretty asthmatic in the lower revs.
I understand that taking the flies out and putting in a power commander (will also do an oil based airfilter at the same time) should pretty much get rid of that, but my query is how docile the bike will still be when I need it to be.
Given that a lot of my riding will be in peak hour traffic during traffic jams and during the rain and on slippery roads - would removing the flies give the bike too much bite? (am basically wondering why they are there in the first place if the bike is still useable in those circumstances with them removed).
For me the flies seem to be opening around the same time as the power curve of the bike starts working and the same time as the air ram starts to kick in - almost hits like power band on a 2 stroke. I'm thinking that removing the flies would make the power delivery smoother - not harsher.
It really seems to bog down on take off (talking about the distance from one side of the traffic lights to the other side) which also corresponds with the time I'm letting out the clutch (traffice riding). There doesn't seem to be a balance point where the throttle can be twisted and the clutch let out - needs a lot more minutte adjustments than any other bike I've ridden.
Could my Remus end cans (minus baffles) have stolen the bottom end that is missing (or be contributing)?
Don't get me wrong - this machine is the most awe inspiring machine I have ever ridden, but the hole the Blackbird had at 4k rpms (fixeable) seems as if it's been stretched all the way from 0k to 5 or 6k rpm's and is worse in that it's artificially introduced. Were the reviewers who wrote that you can ride the bike at any speed in any gear on the same setup as me? If I'm cruising at 100 kph (around 65 mph) in 6th gear there is absolutely nothing there if I want to overtake someone. Would removing the flies fix this?
PS - its black - its f'kn sexy and it pulls better than a dentist 
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PS - its black - its f'kn sexy and it pulls better than a dentist
  
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kawabusakid
Expert Class
Fast as my $$ will take me
Posts: 292
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posted February 23, 2007 05:13 AM
do the flie mod,and powercommander.......don't delay...your missing the fun factor of your bike.....your solution to the problem is "not to leave it the way it is,if it is not rite"......after you do it,you will wonder why you did'nt do it sooner......
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raband
Expert Class
Posts: 121
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posted February 23, 2007 05:45 AM
Am pretty sure that is the answer - but why the hell are they there in the first place if the bike is better in every respect without them?
The hole in the blackbird could be for emission/noise regulations - is this similar?
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PS - its black - its f'kn sexy and it pulls better than a dentist
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blackbullet76
Pro
Posts: 1134
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posted February 23, 2007 06:23 AM
I think they're there to prevent people from killing theirselves. You must admit, if someone with not much experience on a big bike bought this from the factory with no flies, they would most definitley get hurt quick. If mine was like that when I first bought it, I probably wouldn't be here right now. As I got more used to the bike, I pulled the flies and put a pcIII and dual d&d pipes on it. The thing scares me on a regular basis, which I enjoy! My advice, pull the flies and get ready to ride a whole new bike
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wrongway
Pro
Posts: 1078
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posted February 23, 2007 07:25 AM
quote:
Given that a lot of my riding will be in peak hour traffic during traffic jams and during the rain and on slippery roads - would removing the flies give the bike too much bite? (am basically wondering why they are there in the first place if the bike is still useable in those circumstances with them removed).
With the fies out , the bike pulls hard. The data logger shows the tire breaking loose when hammering it hard, even on a good surface. I have not ridden mine in the rain , but I am sure extreme caution would be recommended.
As an alernative , you could use a home made TRE ( 270 ohm resistor) and a switch that would allow you to to go between the standard mapping and the 6th gear map. While the 6th gear map is much better for accelleration than the stock settings in lower gears, it is not quite as strong as no flies. But that may be the only way to go back to the stock setup at a flip of a switch.
Roy
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dubious
Needs a life
Needs more time to ride!
Posts: 8442
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posted February 23, 2007 08:40 AM
Yes flies out is much more responsive below 5500 rpm, Best cheap mod,
Their there to prevent inexperienced riders from hurting themselves, and that is the ONLY reason.
It is all relevent to throttle position, respect it and it will not hurt you, its not like a shot of nitrous or anything like that, driveability is much better under all circumstances but be careful on slippery surfaces, it will light the tire up leaned over in bottom gears if you get carried away.
ENJOY!
____________
natural selection.....
destiny will overcome intervention.
Some are not worthy of the effort.
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flyboy
Pro
Posts: 1536
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posted February 23, 2007 09:35 AM
 Edited By: flyboy on 23 Feb 2007 09:39
I think Kawa was very smart putting in those flies. The Kawa brass counldn't very well introduce a new bike to the market and then have a few riders go off and kill themselves during the first few month of sales. The bike would then be on the cover of Time magazine and sales would immediately come to a standstill. I have a feeling they knew you guys in Bikeland would analyse and dissect the machine thus finding a solution to removing those pesky flies. The brass in Japan are now probably nursing their saki with smug smiles on their faces because they knew it all along... plus their lawyers are off the hook.
When a test pilot flies a new jet for the first time they never raise the wheels and the whole flight is done with the wheels down. This allows them to analyse the plane and it's flying characteristics. It's only after the 2nd or 3rd flight that he raises those wheels to expland his envelope.
I'm a rather inexperienced rider and learning to ride with the flies in made it handle like a little Honda. I like to think of those four small discs as "training wheels". But once one builds up his confidenct and gets familiar with the handling characteristcs those flies need to come out and let the real 14 emerge.
And to answer your question, with flies out, there is no problem in traffic. I also understand everything is upside down there is Australia. Is that right?
Dubious it's good to see you back. Were you in prison or where?
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'There's more living in five minutes flat-out on a bike than some men have in an entire life'.
"The World's Fastest Indian"
One fast red ZX-14,
Three World and four National Land Speed Records,
One faster red and white Cessna Turbo 210
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NinjaNick
Needs a job
'08 ZX14 (Blue)
Posts: 4558
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posted February 23, 2007 01:24 PM
Curious: Is the 14 the only bike anyone's ever done it on?
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ImaSlowZX
Parking Attendant
Posts: 25
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posted February 23, 2007 01:51 PM
Gday Raband. I live in Brissy and use the 14 a lot in the M1 daily traffic and flies out doesnt seem to pose a problem. It doesnt take too long to get used to the clutch/throttle mix. I will have to agree though that things may be a bit different in wet conditions. I guess it would be the same with most big bikes and wet roads......just take extra care. As the saying goes..."
just add water" and what happens next is all up to you.
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BlackMagic14
Needs a job
Posts: 2058
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posted February 23, 2007 02:39 PM
quote:
its not like a shot of nitrous or anything like that
29 ft lb's of torque and 20 hp at 4000 rpm hmmmmm, how is that NOT like a shot of nitrous?
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dubious
Needs a life
Needs more time to ride!
Posts: 8442
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posted February 23, 2007 03:37 PM
quote:
Curious: Is the 14 the only bike anyone's ever done it on?
guys are doin zx10's, and i know some drag racers are doing gsxr1000'S TOO!
____________
natural selection.....
destiny will overcome intervention.
Some are not worthy of the effort.
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dubious
Needs a life
Needs more time to ride!
Posts: 8442
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posted February 23, 2007 03:40 PM
quote:
I think Kawa was very smart putting in those flies. The Kawa brass counldn't very well introduce a new bike to the market and then have a few riders go off and kill themselves during the first few month of sales. The bike would then be on the cover of Time magazine and sales would immediately come to a standstill. I have a feeling they knew you guys in Bikeland would analyse and dissect the machine thus finding a solution to removing those pesky flies. The brass in Japan are now probably nursing their saki with smug smiles on their faces because they knew it all along... plus their lawyers are off the hook.
When a test pilot flies a new jet for the first time they never raise the wheels and the whole flight is done with the wheels down. This allows them to analyse the plane and it's flying characteristics. It's only after the 2nd or 3rd flight that he raises those wheels to expland his envelope.
I'm a rather inexperienced rider and learning to ride with the flies in made it handle like a little Honda. I like to think of those four small discs as "training wheels". But once one builds up his confidenct and gets familiar with the handling characteristcs those flies need to come out and let the real 14 emerge.
And to answer your question, with flies out, there is no problem in traffic. I also understand everything is upside down there is Australia. Is that right?
Dubious it's good to see you back. Were you in prison or where?
Hello brutha,
Nope, quite the day job, workin for myself now.
Been busy settin up my business and writing up contracts, plus all those pics from Arizo and Cali were depressin me.
Pavement should be clear of snow in about 6 weeks, so I am goin to tear into the 14 soon!
Nitrous, swingarm, and some other bits ....
____________
natural selection.....
destiny will overcome intervention.
Some are not worthy of the effort.
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stevewfl
Moderator
Posts: 27920
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posted February 23, 2007 04:32 PM
____________
2010 Concours14
'08 R1 YAMAHA
ZX14 gone!
CBR600RR track bike
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kawabusakid
Expert Class
Fast as my $$ will take me
Posts: 292
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posted February 23, 2007 06:11 PM
lol... 
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flyboy
Pro
Posts: 1536
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posted February 23, 2007 06:23 PM
Dubious,
What's the story on your picture?
1) Are you burning rubber at dust while in a turn on the highway and a truck is about to roll over you?
2) Are you letting off a road flare in a heavy wind?
What?
____________
'There's more living in five minutes flat-out on a bike than some men have in an entire life'.
"The World's Fastest Indian"
One fast red ZX-14,
Three World and four National Land Speed Records,
One faster red and white Cessna Turbo 210
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ninja14
Pro
Posts: 1136
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posted February 23, 2007 06:48 PM
No flies, PC, pipes and 16/43 gears shoulda been a dealer option :-)
I can't keep the front down and the rear lasts only a few thousand miles..........
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stevewfl
Moderator
Posts: 27920
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posted February 23, 2007 10:09 PM
Guys there is a plethora of flies out info, just do a search.
And to those who say the search tool here isn't as good as google, your right. However, the search tool works great for such functions as finding the upteen trillion discussions on flies out.
quote:
____________
2010 Concours14
'08 R1 YAMAHA
ZX14 gone!
CBR600RR track bike
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raband
Expert Class
Posts: 121
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posted February 23, 2007 11:04 PM
quote:
Guys there is a plethora of flies out info, just do a search.
And to those who say the search tool here isn't as good as google, your right. However, the search tool works great for such functions as finding the upteen trillion discussions on flies out.
Sorry if I did the wrong thing, but a search didn't really work for me (lots of people have "flies out" as part of their sigs, so a search on "flies out" brings up any thread they may have posted in) (maybe I'm using the search wrong?)
Other than that I manually have been through pretty much every page of threads since I first became interested in the bike and had still been looking for more info. Two or three posts in this thread have given me more info than I'd been able to find up til now.
I will try to get hold of a bike with the flies out for a quick test ride before I do the same to mine, but am now pretty sure it will be a mod that is occuring (power commander and K&N air filter at same time)
Once again - thanks for the info - Guess the thread can be closed/locked if thats more appropriate if the topics been done to death. Maybe a sticky or faq is needed somewhere if the question is so prevalent.
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PS - its black - its f'kn sexy and it pulls better than a dentist
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raband
Expert Class
Posts: 121
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posted February 23, 2007 11:08 PM
quote:
quote:
Guys there is a plethora of flies out info, just do a search.
(lots of people have "flies out" as part of their sigs, so a search on "flies out" brings up any thread they may have posted in) .
Actually - 16 of the 19 treads that have been used today come up in a search on "flies out"
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PS - its black - its f'kn sexy and it pulls better than a dentist
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3Boysand3Bikes
Expert Class
Posts: 382
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posted February 23, 2007 11:35 PM
raband... I have ridden the bike in the rain... with the flies out, and new mapping, and a MUZZY Stainless system... it is not as bad as my ZX-12 was when that was stock. The fuel injection is really what I found is the thing. The 14 seems to have a great fuel injection system that allows very smooth running. On the 12, in town going around corners, I had to be extremely careful with the throttle. The Hayabusa was better, but you still had a bit more jerk with the throttle. I have not had one problem with riding the 14 due to the flies being pulled. Now, that being said, I have not changed either sprocket, which I think may cause a bit more problems for you. I can't imagine how responsive the bike gets with one less tooth up front, or 2 more in the back, or both??!! Also, don't worry about Stevewfl... he is the Forum Court Jester... he is trying to get as many posts on here as Fish Antlers (owner/administrator)... If you begin to ask about which oil to use, or how to take off the seat... that may get old, but your questions were well thought out, and very specific. I don't see anyone having a problem with that. Good luck and enjoy the bike, and the Forum!!
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blackbullet76
Pro
Posts: 1134
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posted February 24, 2007 06:27 AM
Does the yamaha R1 have flies? My friend has an 05 and if it does, I'll help him take those things out.
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phytrax
Zone Head
Posts: 526
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posted February 24, 2007 10:54 AM
I've ridden in the rain enough, 6 hrs one day unfortunately. The bike behaved VERY well with the flies out and stock tires. You will probably want to use a higher gear than normal. Also if you lower the gears on the bike I'm sure first gear is scary in the rain, but with stock gearing it's perfectly controllable if you have some experience. I've ridden in traffic also and it's very manageable with the flies out. The power is there when you want it but still easy to control. In some ways it's easier to drive in traffic because you don't have to down shift as much.
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Concourse14- Corbin Seat, Candy Apple Red Paint, Area P Slip-On
RIP+ZX-14- Brock's Gen3, Heli Risers, Corbin Bags, Corbin Seat and Oval Backrest (Burgandy Snakeskin and black alligator), Muzzys Frame Sliders, flies out, 18t front sprocket, PC3, Puig Double Bubble, Pirelli Diablo Strada's
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NinjaNick
Needs a job
'08 ZX14 (Blue)
Posts: 4558
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posted February 24, 2007 07:33 PM
quote:
Does the yamaha R1 have flies? My friend has an 05 and if it does, I'll help him take those things out.
My '03 636 does. I'm sure the R1 does. Hell, I thought all the inline 4's do, right?
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stevewfl
Moderator
Posts: 27920
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posted February 24, 2007 09:29 PM
I didn't seem to have a problem using the search tool for illustrated directions:
http://www.bikeland.org/board/viewthread.php?FID=27&TID=24193&set_time=
____________
2010 Concours14
'08 R1 YAMAHA
ZX14 gone!
CBR600RR track bike
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3Boysand3Bikes
Expert Class
Posts: 382
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posted February 24, 2007 10:30 PM
Very good Steve... however, that is from June... maybe raband was looking for some updated input on this subject. Many of us have put on a few miles since that time. To be honest... if I am looking for something on here, I will use my Stevewfl search engine... I will PM you and see if you can find it. I have not had the best of luck searching on here. I usually just read the the posts over the months and I will remember about when I read something. Anyway... enjoy your weather...
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