Flame On
Needs a life
Fuel Air & Spark
Posts: 17104
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posted October 23, 2006 03:50 PM
Brake oil fade
Anyone experiance fading in brakes do to low boil point brake oil from dealers. Heard this has happend to a rider in hard canyon riding on a 14. He recomended to change out the stock oil.
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77 RD 400
80 GS1000 GT
06 ZX14
  
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rickyskaw
Parking Attendant
Posts: 1
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posted October 23, 2006 04:27 PM
Flame On
At the risk of being "Jones" on here is what I've done. I have drag-raced on the track a while back and since I have had to rebuild a few brake calipers and master cylinders I decided to use silicone oil ( DOT5) in the clutch and brake master cylinders on my ZX14, ZR1200 as I have on my KZ drag bike. Yes, I know the discussions of silicone vs ester. I have not have any problems thus far. Also, I am a new member to the ZX14 org, my bike has the following mods:
Brock Gen3 pipe
USB powercommander
Quick Shifter
Engine Ice
Synthetic Oil
Flies Out
lowered 1.25"
Ricky
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Flame On
Needs a life
Fuel Air & Spark
Posts: 17104
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posted October 23, 2006 04:56 PM
Yes heard to use dot 5 . Not sure what brand someone said motul synthetic dot 5 is that the silicone stuff.
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77 RD 400
80 GS1000 GT
06 ZX14
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zxlnt
Needs a job
Kawpuke Extraordinare
Posts: 2853
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posted October 23, 2006 09:17 PM
If you do switch over to DOT 5 make sure you flush the brakes lines, master cylinder and calipers well..
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dubious
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Needs more time to ride!
Posts: 8442
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posted October 23, 2006 09:24 PM
Yes flush well, good stuff though, higher boiling point, does not gel, does not eat plastic and paintif you spill it, and does not absorb moisture, like the regular brake fluids dot 3 and 4.
wow, i must say though, I have hammered the brakes hard, full application from 300km/hr top about 50 km/hr with out fade!
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fastestbusaaround
Needs a life
I eat Fish...
Posts: 7889
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posted October 24, 2006 02:27 AM
Curious,,,why do they use dot 3 & 4 if dot 5 is the way to go? I've wrecked plastic with dot 3 at least once before...I'd prefer to use dot 5 in fact. My HD uses dot 5...anybody have an answer?
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FYYFF!!!
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zxlnt
Needs a job
Kawpuke Extraordinare
Posts: 2853
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posted October 24, 2006 02:40 AM
Because DOT 5 is for FAST GUYS...
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zxlnt
Needs a job
Kawpuke Extraordinare
Posts: 2853
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posted October 24, 2006 02:41 AM
Heck they probably use the lower grades because that is all that is really required for the majority of the riders. Besides if they put it in from the factory we would have just 1 less thing to modify on our bikes..
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redelk
Moderator
Please... speak to the hand.
Posts: 3212
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posted October 24, 2006 03:55 AM
Here's some brake fluid info. Its a little old, but I think it basically still is accurate.
Brake Fluid Boiling Points
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There are only three sports: bullfighting, motor racing, and mountaineering; all the rest are merely games.
-Ernest Hemingway
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nightmare
Pro
ACP Racing
Posts: 1797
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posted October 24, 2006 05:58 AM
i learn something new everyday
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2006 ZX14 Ninja "SWINE FLU"
60ft 1.23
8th Mile 5.16
ACP Racing
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zx14_1965
Zone Head
Posts: 505
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posted October 24, 2006 03:25 PM
 Edited By: zx14_1965 on 24 Oct 2006 16:26
Omega is awesome stuff...don't sell it here in the US, at least I haven't seen it.
Engine oil, AT, brake fluid etc. Motul and Galfer is good stuff.
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redelk
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posted October 24, 2006 03:57 PM
Omega must not be that "awesome". Not to be found at most EU, Australian and Japanese racing sites. You'll find Elf, Motul, Castrol, Brembo, AP1, and even Wilwood, Performance Friction and ATE, as well as several others brands that are "local" to those areas. No mention of Omega at any of the sites I visited.
I'm not saying that it does not exist. If you say it does, I'm sure it does exist... somewhere. It just not that "popular" in racing applications. The point is, if it is not readily available... well, its pointless as well as worthless.
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zx14_1965
Zone Head
Posts: 505
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posted October 24, 2006 06:40 PM
quote:
Omega must not be that "awesome". Not to be found at most EU, Australian and Japanese racing sites. You'll find Elf, Motul, Castrol, Brembo, AP1, and even Wilwood, Performance Friction and ATE, as well as several others brands that are "local" to those areas. No mention of Omega at any of the sites I visited.
I'm not saying that it does not exist. If you say it does, I'm sure it does exist... somewhere. It just not that "popular" in racing applications. The point is, if it is not readily available... well, its pointless as well as worthless.
Just because you haven't hear of it doesn't mean it ain't no good.....very popular in racing applications....in Japan and It wasn't cheap stuff. at about $50 a quart. It's all that was used when I raced for HKS, Tomei and Arakaki Engineering...the tuners swore by it...I just drove their cars. Mazda LeMans race team uses it as well.
No poiint in further discussion since it doesn't exist here. More than likely it's marketed under a few of those foreign names you mentioned. Anywhoooo....I use Motul products in my bikes since I've been here.
Here's one of the distributor's website in Japan:
http://www.jo-ya.com/oil/omega/omega_top.html
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ZREXER
Expert Class
Posts: 492
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posted October 24, 2006 08:18 PM
Even bleeding your brakes and using Dot 3 or 4 makes a big difference. I have not done the '14 yet, but any other bike I have done it is amazing how much stronger the brakes feel when they have been properly bleeded.
The fluid will look pretty black and will have lots of little bits in it................kind of like what your engine oil looks like on the first few changes.
On the '14 I see there is a bleed screw up top as well. What is the proper sequence to do the calipers first then the bleed screw up top or the other way around?
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redelk
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posted October 25, 2006 04:55 AM
Since Omega has a wet boiling point that is just 27F above DOT4 standards, I'd hardly consider it a "awesome" brake fluid. Even if it currently sells at about $22.65 for 500 ml. I think brake fluid from Wal-Mart could have similar wet numbers. Color me unimpressed.
Here's how Omega stacks up to other brands:
Wildwood EXP 600 - 626F / 417F
GS 610 - 610F / 421F
Brembo LCF600 - 601F / 399F
Motul RBF600 - 593F / 420F
Castrol SRF - 590F / 518F
AP Super 600 - 590F / 410F
Omega 697 - 518F/ 338F
http://www.jo-ya.com/oil/omega/omega_top.html
____________
There are only three sports: bullfighting, motor racing, and mountaineering; all the rest are merely games.
-Ernest Hemingway
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Stalwart
Needs a job
Posts: 3360
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posted October 25, 2006 07:01 AM
quote:
On the '14 I see there is a bleed screw up top as well. What is the proper sequence to do the calipers first then the bleed screw up top or the other way around?
ZREXER, I believe you'll find that there is one top and bottom to allow one caliper to fit both sides of the bike. Bleed the top one but I'd crack the bottom one once, just to make sure there isn't a bubble trapped there.
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Stuart
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Ridin' the Trump train.
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ZREXER
Expert Class
Posts: 492
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posted October 25, 2006 09:25 AM
quote:
quote:
On the '14 I see there is a bleed screw up top as well. What is the proper sequence to do the calipers first then the bleed screw up top or the other way around?
ZREXER, I believe you'll find that there is one top and bottom to allow one caliper to fit both sides of the bike. Bleed the top one but I'd crack the bottom one once, just to make sure there isn't a bubble trapped there.
I'm talking about the bleed screw up by the master cylinder, have not had that on previous bikes. The clutch master cylinder has a bleed screw as well by it's master cylinder as well.
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Stalwart
Needs a job
Posts: 3360
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posted October 25, 2006 09:30 AM
Edited By: Stalwart on 25 Oct 2006 10:36
Probably a power bleeding point . . . I have been wrong before though.
BTW, I love using Dot 5. True it is a bit more spongy feeling but with the addition of braided/Teflon lines it comes back to pretty damn solid feeling again. I HATE having to worry about the paint when topping up the reservoirs and during bleeding.
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Stuart
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Ridin' the Trump train.
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zx14_1965
Zone Head
Posts: 505
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posted October 25, 2006 03:54 PM
quote:
Since Omega has a wet boiling point that is just 27F above DOT4 standards, I'd hardly consider it a "awesome" brake fluid. Even if it currently sells at about $22.65 for 500 ml. I think brake fluid from Wal-Mart could have similar wet numbers. Color me unimpressed.
Here's how Omega stacks up to other brands:
Wildwood EXP 600 - 626F / 417F
GS 610 - 610F / 421F
Brembo LCF600 - 601F / 399F
Motul RBF600 - 593F / 420F
Castrol SRF - 590F / 518F
AP Super 600 - 590F / 410F
Omega 697 - 518F/ 338F
http://www.jo-ya.com/oil/omega/omega_top.html
Is the Castrol SRF an off the shelf item?...I'm impressed....bigthumb
Nothing beats their race oil.... 
Show me some comparison charts on real race oil.
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redelk
Moderator
Please... speak to the hand.
Posts: 3212
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posted October 25, 2006 04:36 PM
quote:
Is the Castrol SRF an off the shelf item?
Short answer, yes it is. If you had read the link... nevermind. 
BTW - I believe this thread is about brake fluid and other brake related issues. You wanna talk about engine oils, feel free to start a new thread. 
Geez
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RACNRAY
Expert Class
FAST OLD GUY
Posts: 178
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posted October 25, 2006 06:21 PM
Back when my shop was sposoring a roadracer,we experimented with different brake fluids as he was such a hard braker,he had brake fluid boiling problems.We did the usual comparisons of advertised wet and dry boiling points, and in the end found motul RBF600 dot 4 fluid was the only fluid he would not boil,and if i remember correctly also had the highest advertised boiling points.It is the only fluid we sell and use in ours and our customer's skoots.
RACNRAY
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no chicken strips on this south florida boy's skoots!!
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