Bently
Needs a life
2012 14r In Blue and no Mods!
Posts: 5428
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posted October 20, 2006 06:34 PM
I want fast, really fast, did I mention fast? Like I said in other post brock has a dyno map for impressing people and a track map for the strip.
  
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ZXLNT
Needs a job
Kawpuke Extraordinare
Posts: 2853
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posted October 20, 2006 06:46 PM
quote:
quote:
I would like to see an optimal custom map made for each pipe and then re-run them again. That would tell even more. Hard to say how close each pipes mapping was..
Do you really think that would prove anything? Just asking ..... Muzzy made his best map for his pipe and brock made his best map for his pipe....At least i would think both would make the best map possible wouldn't you ?........  Smokin..
Was their "Best Map" made on that specific dyno under the exact conditions the test was ran on that exact machine machine?
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smokinZX14
Needs a life
Posts: 10197
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posted October 20, 2006 07:01 PM
quote:
quote:
quote:
I would like to see an optimal custom map made for each pipe and then re-run them again. That would tell even more. Hard to say how close each pipes mapping was..
Do you really think that would prove anything? Just asking ..... Muzzy made his best map for his pipe and brock made his best map for his pipe....At least i would think both would make the best map possible wouldn't you ?........ Smokin..
Was their "Best Map" made on that specific dyno under the exact conditions the test was ran on that exact machine machine?
Did you read the first post of just skip it? Ask the guy that wrote it not me ..... Looked like a very fare test to me......
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Smokin Performance Cycles..
Tampa Bay , FL .. Brocks Performance Dealer ..
Gen 2 ZX14R Best ET 8.43 , Best MPH 164.95
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TJ
Zone Head
Posts: 604
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posted October 20, 2006 07:14 PM
quote:
Did you read the first post of just skip it?
I don't think any of these guys read the first post. Blackmagic clearly stated "discussion over" yet people are still discussing.
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smokinZX14
Needs a life
Posts: 10197
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posted October 20, 2006 07:15 PM
quote:
quote:
Did you read the first post of just skip it?
I don't think any of these guys read the first post. Blackmagic clearly stated "discussion over" yet people are still discussing.
+1 lol
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Smokin Performance Cycles..
Tampa Bay , FL .. Brocks Performance Dealer ..
Gen 2 ZX14R Best ET 8.43 , Best MPH 164.95
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zx14_1965
Zone Head
Posts: 505
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posted October 20, 2006 09:08 PM
I've tried a "ram air" custom map and my bike didn't run as well compared to the custom map. I could tell the difference on the road between the "ram air" map and the current custom map. Get better gas mileage too. But that's just my personal experience.
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Nelson Taylor
Zone Head
Posts: 927
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posted October 20, 2006 10:17 PM
Question for the fellas running Brocks Smeg. With the map that he sends you is it mapped for MR9 (Race Map)?
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Best #'s
1.54
4.03
6.02 @ 121mph
(Stock Wheelbase) 2006 ZX14
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BlackMagic14
Needs a job
Posts: 2058
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posted October 20, 2006 11:16 PM
Brock provides race gas maps as well as pump gas maps... The Brocks map supplied directly from brock with no tweeking was PERFECT jason at RPM Cycle in El Dorado arkansas said he could make NO IMPROVEMENT... it looked like someone drew the A/F line with a ruler muzzies map was very close it was tweeked by jason to adjust for the Flies out but like someone said that would have NO AFFECT on peak power...my bike with the brocks map with U4 and no Air filter hit 140 MPH in the 1000 foot on motor 151 on the spray we wont talk about E/T's cause the sixty footers were BAD!!!!!! 1.76 best 60 foot of the night but you can tell my the MPH that it is makin some serious power on the big end
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BlackMagic14
Needs a job
Posts: 2058
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posted October 20, 2006 11:18 PM
also the map we tested on the dyno with was brocks street map not a DYNO map which Brock will provide for "Bragging Rights" I have heard that the dyno map will pick up another 3-5 HP on the Dyno but WILL SLOW YOU DOWN ON THE STREET
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zxlnt
Needs a job
Kawpuke Extraordinare
Posts: 2853
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posted October 21, 2006 12:13 AM
quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
I would like to see an optimal custom map made for each pipe and then re-run them again. That would tell even more. Hard to say how close each pipes mapping was..
Do you really think that would prove anything? Just asking ..... Muzzy made his best map for his pipe and brock made his best map for his pipe....At least i would think both would make the best map possible wouldn't you ?........ Smokin..
Was their "Best Map" made on that specific dyno under the exact conditions the test was ran on that exact machine machine?
Did you read the first post of just skip it? Ask the guy that wrote it not me ..... Looked like a very fare test to me......
Yeah I read it. It said neither map was Tweaked. They were maps supplied by Brock and Muzzy, that were made using a different ZX14 under different conditions on a different dyno at a different location.
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zxlnt
Needs a job
Kawpuke Extraordinare
Posts: 2853
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posted October 21, 2006 12:15 AM
quote:
quote:
Did you read the first post of just skip it?
I don't think any of these guys read the first post. Blackmagic clearly stated "discussion over" yet people are still discussing.
Yeah I read it, did you??
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Stu64
Zone Head
Posts: 548
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posted October 21, 2006 03:34 AM
To compare the pipes on the same day same dyno you would have to map each pipe the same day.
Those maps are made at different locations at different altitudes,humidity levels,ambient temps,barometer levels and different dynos.
By the way, i don't have either pipe,this is just from my observing tests i do everyday on engines. A engine fueled(jetted) on one day at a certain barometer level and temp could lose/gain power on the next day.
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navigator
Expert Class
Posts: 308
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posted October 21, 2006 04:50 AM
Round and round the mulberry bush, the monkey chased the weasel!
This may have started out as "UNBIASED factual data" but it didn't stay that way for long.
Shell Rotella T synthetic, Purolator filter, Conti Road Attacks, Brock's Gen III, flies out, PC-III with Brock's no flies street map, 16 tooth front sprocket, stock seat. That's my opinion.
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Bently
Needs a life
2012 14r In Blue and no Mods!
Posts: 5428
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posted October 21, 2006 04:57 AM
Stu64 it really won't change that much unless you go from sea leval to say colorado. even in my old race car. I ran 7.70 in iowa went to oklahoma and ran 7.72 off the trailer with no changes made. and these new bikes make up fo the changes even better with all the eletronics, and fuel injection
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CrotchRocket
Moderator
Bracket Racing with Betsy
Posts: 8038
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posted October 21, 2006 05:21 AM
quote:
Round and round the mulberry bush, the monkey chased the weasel!
This may have started out as "UNBIASED factual data" but it didn't stay that way for long.
I think this really sums it up
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Jason Miller StreetBike Seminars
*****DragRacers do it better, because they dont cut Corners*****
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zx14_1965
Zone Head
Posts: 505
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posted October 21, 2006 06:49 AM
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dubious
Needs a life
Needs more time to ride!
Posts: 8442
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posted October 21, 2006 01:02 PM
quote:
Question for the fellas running Brocks Smeg. With the map that he sends you is it mapped for MR9 (Race Map)?
It depends which map you request to be down loaded, he has maps for many different combo's
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Stalwart
Needs a job
Posts: 3360
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posted October 22, 2006 09:07 AM
I must say that Brock's "no flies, Gen 3, street map" runs pretty good. Like FBA and others have stated it does seem to add some fuel cooling (running rich) but I do like it. I'll have to have the wife follow me one night to see how big the deceleration flame is. The Gen 3 was much quieter than I expected at first but I suppose that may change a bit with time. Like everyone else has been saying, the secondary butterflies are never goin' back in. Good goin' Brock!
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Stuart
________________________________
Ridin' the Trump train.
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dubious
Needs a life
Needs more time to ride!
Posts: 8442
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posted October 22, 2006 09:11 AM
 Edited By: dubious on 22 Oct 2006 10:12
Yup his pipes are real good.
Some spam for Brock, I cut and paste from the other post
Brocks smeg barely tapers off after peak and pulls very hard compared to stock, right to redline.
Heres Brocks chart..
Look at the peak of stock, it holds peak for about 1000 rpm between 9-10k.
Look at brocks peak, it lasts 2000 rpm from 9-11k.
Not only that look at the entire curve, Brocks pounds the stock curve into oblivion because it makes more power than the stocker ever did (peak even) for 3400 rpm, from 7600 to 11 k ! , and additionally MAKES MORE BOTTOM AND MID AS WELL!
Even if you got sloppy and shifted at 8000 rpm, it would outpul a stocker with a good rider shifting at 10000 rpm, keepin the stock bike on the pipe!
If you look at any of brocks charts on his site, you'll see that not only does his pipe eclipse stock peak by 12 HP or more, but where the stock pipe tapers off at 10K rpm, his pull pretty much flat, maintaining close to "NEW" peak right into the rev limiter, and absolutley dominates at redline... like 25 RWHP more at the revlimiter!
It stomps out great peak ponies, but the power under the CURVE is a very dramatic increase! Thats the big deal about his pipes!
His primary tubes are stepped, large diameter.
A rev extender, and some additional timing up top, and it would continue to pull hard.
When I changed my exhaust i noticed the exhaust port is heavilly shrouded right at the end wher the exhaust spigots bolt up.
There is some easy top end power right there, without any parts needed except a new head gasket.
I checked piston to valve clearance and found the head could be milled 15 thou as well.
Good for another 1/2 point of compression.
This motor will reward the owner with some real nice #'s ... over 200 rwhp, on stock displacement.... there's some easy 20 HP left in there.
Cams, porting, pipe = 205 RWHP... SAE !
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burnout
Expert Class
Posts: 216
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posted October 22, 2006 12:31 PM
quote:
OK here is the bottom line in my opinion... Same day same Dyno same operator all settings set the same with a switchout time of 1 hour between pipes my zx14 no Secondaries 93 octane fuel Brocks Map with a smeg vs Muzzys map on his pipe... 182 RWHP Brock 108 ft/lb TQ Muzzy 173 RWHP 105 Ft/lbs not to mention the brock had more area under curve period... Now the real question is 9 Hp and 3 ft/lb worth 400 bucks there you go discussion over.... Go ahead and flame me fish LOL!!!
Muzzy has a standing offer to pay anyone $1,000 that can show that Brock's pipe outperforms his by 8 HP. If your data is credible it would seem that the extra 9 HP would definitly be worth it for you.
http://www.bikeland.org/board/viewthread.php?FID=27&TID=26853&pagenumber=1
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1/8 5.66@129.77
1/4 8.74@159.60
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bigdtd
Needs a job
Interceptors
Posts: 4209
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posted October 22, 2006 04:28 PM
ok but what is the best pipe for a big guy(250) running 93 octane pump gas that has the flies in a and does mostly street riding, looking for unsuspecting victims? oh yea and big mph.too.
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2006 Black ZX-14,6 inches over,16/42, flies out,BMC Street Filter,Brock's Street Meg,Brock's Radial Mount Strap,PClll with Race map,Dynojet LCD w/Techmount, ZX-14 fender eliminator,Pilot Power2CTs,Speedohealer,Pazzo Levers,Cox Radiator Guard, Garmin Nuvi 265WT
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CrotchRocket
Moderator
Bracket Racing with Betsy
Posts: 8038
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posted October 22, 2006 04:37 PM
You need an old school crack pipe made by Cody 
That pipe is a classic 
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Jason Miller StreetBike Seminars
*****DragRacers do it better, because they dont cut Corners*****
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dubious
Needs a life
Needs more time to ride!
Posts: 8442
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posted October 22, 2006 04:39 PM
Brocks pipe, makes more torque and HP everywhere, 16/43 gears....
Lower the forks 1.25 inches....
Help keep the frt end down with the big guy traction... LOL
cheapest easiest fix... oh and pull those damn flies, big guys need all the torque they can get!
This should give the 150 lb guys on stock zx14's fits!
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BlackMagic14
Needs a job
Posts: 2058
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posted October 22, 2006 05:02 PM
quote:
ok but what is the best pipe for a big guy(250) running 93 octane pump gas that has the flies in a and does mostly street riding, looking for unsuspecting victims? oh yea and big mph.too.
I weigh 320 and I have never felt a bike that pulls this hard I rode it with both pipes on it and the seat of the pants impression agreed with the dyno
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BlackMagic14
Needs a job
Posts: 2058
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posted October 22, 2006 05:04 PM
quote:
quote:
OK here is the bottom line in my opinion... Same day same Dyno same operator all settings set the same with a switchout time of 1 hour between pipes my zx14 no Secondaries 93 octane fuel Brocks Map with a smeg vs Muzzys map on his pipe... 182 RWHP Brock 108 ft/lb TQ Muzzy 173 RWHP 105 Ft/lbs not to mention the brock had more area under curve period... Now the real question is 9 Hp and 3 ft/lb worth 400 bucks there you go discussion over.... Go ahead and flame me fish LOL!!!
Muzzy has a standing offer to pay anyone $1,000 that can show that Brock's pipe outperforms his by 8 HP. If your data is credible it would seem that the extra 9 HP would definitly be worth it for you.
http://www.bikeland.org/board/viewthread.php?FID=27&TID=26853&pagenumber=1
I appreciate the info I will get the Dyno charts printed out and contact muzzy... and lets see what kind of excuses they can come up with LMAO I am just kidding I hope I get the 1000 dollars that will make a nice dent in the motor work I want
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