INTIMIDA2OR
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posted October 14, 2006 10:02 PM
quote:
, I only get 90 miles a tank these days so its not like I have to run it long if it pings.
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Wow that is some pretty low mileage you're getting there SOCAL 
I'm getting between130 -180 a tank on my hard riding days , and 200 and better when traveling long distances !
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'06 Passion Red ZX-14
*Lee*
  
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bigdtd
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Interceptors
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posted October 15, 2006 01:49 PM
this bike(14) has some compression, tall gearing and i ride it on the street in hot weather, we will see how many of you guys have motors intact a few years from now running low octane
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2006 Black ZX-14,6 inches over,16/42, flies out,BMC Street Filter,Brock's Street Meg,Brock's Radial Mount Strap,PClll with Race map,Dynojet LCD w/Techmount, ZX-14 fender eliminator,Pilot Power2CTs,Speedohealer,Pazzo Levers,Cox Radiator Guard, Garmin Nuvi 265WT
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dubious
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posted October 15, 2006 02:02 PM
as long as it doesn't predetonate, ping, diesel, knock, death rattle, whatever you chose to call it...
its all ok.
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Bently
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posted October 15, 2006 02:25 PM
All of us will have motors intact running low octane, it's nothing new. My zx 10 had more compression then my 14 and I still ran 87 octane in that bike, it's closing in on 15000 miles with it's new owner and runs strong as ever.
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INTIMIDA2OR
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posted October 15, 2006 03:17 PM
quote:
this bike(14) has some compression, tall gearing and i ride it on the street in hot weather, we will see how many of you guys have motors intact a few years from now running low octane
No problem as long as you are not running lean like no flies, full system and no PC or other way of getting fuel into the beast .
I have plenty of fuel flowing through my motor 
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'06 Passion Red ZX-14
*Lee*
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kawabusakid
Expert Class
Fast as my $$ will take me
Posts: 292
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posted October 17, 2006 02:10 PM
87 octane BP Amoco ,.....no problems ,and i run this 14 as often as i can ,9.28@150,all day
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INTIMIDA2OR
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posted October 17, 2006 03:11 PM
quote:
87 octane BP Amoco ,.....no problems ,and i run this 14 as often as i can ,9.28@150,all day
So does higher octane make you any quicker or is it just a waste?
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'06 Passion Red ZX-14
*Lee*
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redelk
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Please... speak to the hand.
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posted October 17, 2006 03:43 PM
 Edited By: redelk on 17 Oct 2006 16:47
quote:
this bike(14) has some compression, tall gearing and i ride it on the street in hot weather, we will see how many of you guys have motors intact a few years from now running low octane
The '07 ZX-14 has a compression ratio of 12.0:1. The '04 ZX-12R was 12.2:1. The '07 ZX-10R is 12.7:1. The '07 ZX-6R is 13.9:1. Seems like the ZX-14 is fairly low in compression when compared to other Kawasaki models. I could be wrong, but wouldn't taller gearing reduce the overall load on a engine?
My '00 12R had close to 49,000 miles on it when I traded it in for my '04 ZX-10R. With a custom mapped PCIII, it produced 182 RWHP and 95 ft/lbs (@ 36K miles). During the three years I owned it, it's compression dropped from an average of 181 PSI (16K miles) per cylinder to 177 PSI (46K miles). A 1.04% drop over a 30K mile period. At 47K, the leak down test showed less than 8% across the board. I'll admit, I ran all kinds of octane numbers in that bike.
My '97 ZX-7R had 69,000 miles on it when I trade it in for the 12R. It's second owner put another 20K on the odo before he and the bike moved out of state.
But neither of those two compare to our '99 R6 bike that we have endurance raced in CMRA for the past 3 years. We bought it USED in '04. It had already be endurance raced for 4 years before e got it. We have no idea how many miles they put on it. That bike has run nonstop for as long as 8 hour in one event (at least three times). Four hours is the shortest endurance race and the rest or 5 or 6 hours long. Over the three year, it has run over 120 hours and 8,000 racing miles.
With a compression ratio of 12.4:1, the fuels we ran in it include U4 for the shorter races and 87 or 89 octane pump gas in the longer ones. The bike has no cooling fan and track temps in Texas easily exceed 120 degrees. It can get pretty hot doing a 150 down the back straight and the going into the tight sections at Texas World... for over 200 laps. Today, it still puts out over 100 RWHP and that is without a PC ('99 has carbs) AND a STOCK air filter. Nothing has EVER been done to the motor besides adjusting the valves.
For over 20 years, I used to be a big believer in 93 octane in everything I owned. Trucks, cars, bikes, even my lawn mowers. Now, I know better. All you got to do is look it up anywhere on the web. You will find it very difficult to find a reputable website that supports your claim. Do a little research on gasoline octane properties and how they relate to performance and you will be as surprised as I was.
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There are only three sports: bullfighting, motor racing, and mountaineering; all the rest are merely games.
-Ernest Hemingway
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fastestbusaaround
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posted October 17, 2006 03:47 PM
Edited By: fastestbusaaround on 17 Oct 2006 16:47
I thought taller gears would tend to load more...?
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redelk
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posted October 17, 2006 03:49 PM
quote:
I thought taller gears would tend to load more...?
Beats me. I don't have a clue. That's why I asked. 
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There are only three sports: bullfighting, motor racing, and mountaineering; all the rest are merely games.
-Ernest Hemingway
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fastestbusaaround
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posted October 17, 2006 03:55 PM
I sort of think of it this way...try rolling away from a stop in 3rd...more load..unless I'm missing something...
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redelk
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posted October 17, 2006 04:01 PM
That makes sense when one is starting off, but what about when your rolling... say... 4K RPMs or higher? If your not lugging it, of course. I'm just guessing out loud, here.
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fastestbusaaround
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posted October 17, 2006 04:04 PM
I presume that the point at where the engine climbs faster through the gears is also where the load is least...but don't know 4 sure either...
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dubious
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posted October 17, 2006 07:48 PM
Edited By: dubious on 17 Oct 2006 20:48
yes, taller gears will put higher load on an engine at any given time , because the taller gears will not have the mechanical advantage of a lower gear set,
the lower 16/43 combo FBA runs now.....
The engine is still making the same power, the engine just has more mechanical advantage over the loads, that is why it is soom much more responsive.
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redelk
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posted October 18, 2006 05:04 AM
Is that addition load significant enough to require a higher octane fuel as reasoned by bigdtd?
____________
There are only three sports: bullfighting, motor racing, and mountaineering; all the rest are merely games.
-Ernest Hemingway
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ghost ryder
Novice Class
Posts: 46
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posted October 18, 2006 06:07 AM
Hey guys i've been running Shell V-power (94 octane) I can notice a little engine rattle at times.(shes all stock). With all the post here on my next fill up I will try 87, the only reason I was staying with the higher octane was because of that little sticker on the tank.So thanks for the info guys.
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bigdtd
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posted October 18, 2006 06:08 AM
about the only time you would hear a ping would be from a dead start in hot weather. i have never heard my 14 ping but i run 93 octane. previous bikes i owned that got hot in traffic would ping during stop and go after extended time in traffic. this would happen to a lesser degree with higher octane. my speculation that the 14 is geared tall is a seat of the pants thing, it feels like it has a lot of gear to me. i doubt you would be loading the bike as much shifting at high rpms with all the inertia you have. as for compression being high my street car runs 9.5/1 (69 camaro with crate motor)so 12/1 seems like some compression to me.
i'm no expert but that's my opinion. it seems like the enviroment you are riding in is the deciding factor to what fuel you choose.
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2006 Black ZX-14,6 inches over,16/42, flies out,BMC Street Filter,Brock's Street Meg,Brock's Radial Mount Strap,PClll with Race map,Dynojet LCD w/Techmount, ZX-14 fender eliminator,Pilot Power2CTs,Speedohealer,Pazzo Levers,Cox Radiator Guard, Garmin Nuvi 265WT
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Bently
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posted October 18, 2006 01:21 PM
On a bike 12/1 compression is not high at all.
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INTIMIDA2OR
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posted October 18, 2006 02:01 PM
Edited By: INTIMIDA2OR on 18 Oct 2006 15:02
Except on the old air cooled inlines 
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'06 Passion Red ZX-14
*Lee*
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HiMile14
Expert Class
Posts: 424
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posted October 18, 2006 05:11 PM
This may be interesting to some.
When new I went 93 and my MPG was about 37. During the first Iron butt I tried 87 and the MPG jumped to 45. I ride the ZX as if it were a Goldwing so performance is always excellent.
Recently I noted that MPG has dropped to 39 with 93 Oct although I got 41.8 on todays trip to Daytona. Thursday I'll fill up with 87 and I'll see if there is any improvement.
Rob
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Bently
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posted October 18, 2006 06:06 PM
You should see more milage with 87 because it burns more effiecent
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INTIMIDA2OR
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posted October 18, 2006 06:14 PM
Edited By: INTIMIDA2OR on 18 Oct 2006 19:15
Yep i've noticed a great mileage increase running 87.
The last trip we over here went to Las vegas running 85-90 mph and i made it on one tank of gas and that is all the way from Orange county Cali
My buddy Chuck aka" Flame on " ran out out of gas just before Baker California !
He was running 91.
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'06 Passion Red ZX-14
*Lee*
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Bently
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posted October 18, 2006 06:30 PM
I get around 40 to 41 with mine running 87 and Brocks Smeg
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dubious
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posted October 18, 2006 07:26 PM
quote:
Is that addition load significant enough to require a higher octane fuel as reasoned by bigdtd?
doubtful.
the compression ratio, ignition timing,and combustion temps are the culprit for detonation.
some combinations require higher octanes, to prevent detonation.
The refining tolerances are quite loose, and the specs of any given fuel , other than race fuels, like VP, are likely to change substantially from day to day, due to process upsets, or poor / inconsistant refinery operation.
The main thing is to make sure you are aware of the operation of your machine.
If it pings, it needs higher octane, and better fuel should be used asap, and go easy on the whiskey grip until the shit fuel is drained or burned.
Couple of times I got bad fuel, I ran the tank half empty and topped it up with premium immediatley, and was careful not to load the engine till I got some better fuel in it.
Quite likely a good stable source of 87 octane is all our bikes require, but Kawi states 91 octane for waranty / legal purposes.
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dubious
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posted October 18, 2006 07:48 PM
yes for cars, 12:1 is high compression.
Automobiles having higher emmisions standards, run more timing advance, more restrictive exhaust, definatley more load on the motor( lbs/ cu inch)
leaner jetting, and usually hotter combustion chambers, less efficient cylinder head cooling, less efficient 2 valve heads, iron heads, less efficint combustion chamber design, which tend to hold in the heat.
Our semi-hemispherical , 4 valve, aluminum heads, with flatter pistons, shallow combustion chambers displace heat, and have alot less weight to lug around, therefor the bikes get away with alot more compression, on the same octanes as cars.
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