TeamSpeed
Expert Class
Posts: 449
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posted October 03, 2006 10:24 AM
 Edited By: TeamSpeed on 3 Oct 2006 11:25
Is this true, bikes w/same mods need same map?
This came from Ivan on ZX14Ninja and I found it be really misleading and replied. I have sat in at dyno sessions at LPE for camaros/vettes and have seen the wide variances from one vehicle compared to others with just the same set of simple bolt-ons. The same would go with bikes, as they add on more sensors and are controlled more and more by the ECU. Every component has error tolerances, from sensors to the actual mechanical moving parts, all of which create a "personality" for each and every bike. Granted those tolerances keep shrinking as technology gets better, but still...
quote:
Also whats your opinion on downloading your map verses having someone else do the mapping starting from a zero map?
I am of the belief that all bikes of the same model are the same.... certain mods will cause tuning differences to be different from one bike to another.
For example, I believe that all ZX14's with slip-ons and a TRE and a stock air filter will use the same map and run the same.
Some people don't set the opening and closing points on the PC3 and this will cause one bike to run differently than another with the same mods.
This is because the map is not "aligned" the same...
(the changes don't take place at the same throttle positions unless the opening and closing points are set)
If the tuner never set them when the map was created, the map will not be accurate.
http://www.zx14ninja.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=2010&start=30
  
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wrongway
Pro
Posts: 1078
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posted October 03, 2006 11:14 AM
I am having a hard time understanding how there could be a large variation unless there is some mechanical / electrical issue. maybe in production engines there are large variations in clyinder flow , combustion chamber shape, intake manifolds , injector flow , cam timing or other things that would cause this. On motors that are built with CNC ported heads and chambers and and blue printed they would be really close. I guess it would just depend on how good the manufacturing process is at Kawasaki. An easy way to figure this is just ot look at dyno runs of stock zx-14's and see how similar they are....
Roy
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salsa1
Needs a life
Posts: 5971
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posted October 03, 2006 11:55 AM
Different altitudes call for different air/fuel ratios thus a custom map for one...the other factors mentioned could influence too as I understand it.... custom map is a better bet you are optimized for your bike and particular altitude...
I think it depends too if 2-4 hp is worth much to you or not.. not really sure if a dyno session can make up for differerent factory tolerances ect...
I know gained 10 hp over Muzzy sent map for their powercommander and full system...about 2000 ft altitude difference from where the Muzzy map sent to me took place...
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Salsa1
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TeamSpeed
Expert Class
Posts: 449
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posted October 03, 2006 11:57 AM
That was my point, between tolerances on the bike and climatic differences, if you want your bike to run the best (bragging rights, drag times, etc), you will want to dyno tune your bike. Maybe Ivan was just speaking for the 80+% of the populace where good is good enough.
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Bently
Needs a life
2012 14r In Blue and no Mods!
Posts: 5428
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posted October 03, 2006 01:08 PM
I firmly believe I will not see any better times having my bike dyno tuned vs running Brocks supplied map.
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stevewfl
Moderator
Posts: 27920
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posted October 03, 2006 01:13 PM
quote:
I firmly believe I will not see any better times having my bike dyno tuned vs running Brocks supplied map.
I use Brock's map that came preloaded in the PC, no probs. For some reason I wasted time with my laptop insuring it was really loaded. Thats before I realized Brock's level of quality and service.
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2010 Concours14
'08 R1 YAMAHA
ZX14 gone!
CBR600RR track bike
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Road Rash
Novice Class
Posts: 67
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posted October 03, 2006 04:05 PM
Wish I could post my dyno run. The Muzzy map from 3-5900 is right on top of each outher.
little tweek from 6-7. On top 7-8. Little tweek 8-9 and 9-11 you can see the biggest differance of 3-4 hp. Torque looks like a rainbow right on top of each outher.
I said it before the way I ride on the street should have left it alone.
I also think the moon was full when we dyno it so there you go.
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