kawasaki_rick
Zone Head
Posts: 512
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posted September 21, 2006 12:16 PM
nitrous nozzle placement?
Where are you guys placing the nozzle for dry nos on the 14? Pics would be great. And where are you placing the silenoid? thanks
  
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flatoutbu
Pro
Posts: 1054
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posted September 21, 2006 12:25 PM
Perfect nozzle placement would be in the stacks facing down the flies. You have a nice open area under the tank behind the battery...the only problem with this is, if you ever have to work on it you will have to pull the tank.
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06 Blue 14
9.008 at 153mph @ 195 suited
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Shane661
Needs a life
Posts: 11494
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posted September 21, 2006 01:14 PM
Isn't that similar to the Muzzy setup?
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FlatoutBu
Pro
Posts: 1054
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posted September 21, 2006 02:01 PM
Should be for any set up...the best shot is straight down it's throat...lol
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06 Blue 14
9.008 at 153mph @ 195 suited
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kawasaki_rick
Zone Head
Posts: 512
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posted September 21, 2006 02:22 PM
let me rephrase the question
1st off i got a dry system, 1 nozzle. So i cant just point it at one butterfly. Im thinking i should just drill and tap the left 3 bolt access door and face the nozzle forward center. Or should i point it at the air temp sensor? I need all the help i can get. Thanks.
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1badzx12r
Needs a life
Posts: 8321
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posted September 21, 2006 02:30 PM
ZXBOB has a good way of installing it... but if i was doing it ...i place the nozzle in between the ram air vents
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zxlnt
Needs a job
Kawpuke Extraordinare
Posts: 2853
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posted September 21, 2006 02:47 PM
It needs to spray across the inlet air temp sensor. Thats the whole trick with dry nitrous. Fooling the inlet air temp sensor into thinking the bike needs more fuel. 2 nozzles firing from opposite sides of the airbox would be a good option as well, with one of them spraying across the inlet air temp sensor..
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dougmeyer
Needs a job
moderated
Posts: 2713
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posted September 21, 2006 10:14 PM
zxlnt,
A fallacy. If you look at the update rate of the temp sensor, it doesn't react fast enough to have a appreciable effect on the fuel flow. By the time the fuel gets "rich" you're done.
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zxlnt
Needs a job
Kawpuke Extraordinare
Posts: 2853
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posted September 22, 2006 02:05 AM
Interesting, thanks for the correction. Looks for my manual...
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flatoutbu
Pro
Posts: 1054
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posted September 22, 2006 04:19 AM
Shooting it down the flies would be the optimum set up. If you only have one nozzle stick it wherever you want, everybody has a preference. I would take the most direct shot into the flies trying to dispurse it evenly...
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06 Blue 14
9.008 at 153mph @ 195 suited
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halvefast
Zone Head
Posts: 806
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posted September 22, 2006 05:28 AM
 Edited By: halvefast on 22 Sep 2006 06:30
So Doug you are saying the O2 sensor does the richening of the fuel at a faster rate? Or is it a combination of the 2? Wouldn't it just be safer to spray past the temp sensor anyway?
I've never played with N2O, but I'm think about it for next year. Just trying to learn. 
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Texas Mile 200.256mph - Oct. 2007 (Update 202.577mph Oct 2008) NOS assisted
ECTA Ohio Mile 195.132mph
TexasMile 2012 199.9 mph all motor!
Streetriders Shootout 2008 series Pro/ET Champ!
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psycho1122
Pro
Posts: 1608
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posted September 22, 2006 05:31 AM
No O2 sensor, Open loop system.
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halvefast
Zone Head
Posts: 806
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posted September 22, 2006 07:38 AM
Ok then you got me how does it rich up, or know it is needed?
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Texas Mile 200.256mph - Oct. 2007 (Update 202.577mph Oct 2008) NOS assisted
ECTA Ohio Mile 195.132mph
TexasMile 2012 199.9 mph all motor!
Streetriders Shootout 2008 series Pro/ET Champ!
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iflyphi
Zone Head
Posts: 542
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posted September 22, 2006 09:50 AM
It has a temp sensor of some sort. Richens the mixture based on temp and air density, I think. Its that little sensor on the left hand cover.
The powercommander has an accelerator pump feature, you may want to turn it on, and richen the mixture at 100% throttle. Or just push the high button on the PC twice.
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dougmeyer
Needs a job
moderated
Posts: 2713
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posted September 22, 2006 12:40 PM
You're all misunderstanding a bit. The temp sensor in the airbox does just what you all think it does, it slews the mixture rich or lean based on inlet air temp. The combination of the airbox pressure sensor and the temp is used to select a relative air density and "choose" a mixture from the ECU's library of maps.
It's just that the rate at which the ECU "reads" the temp from the sensor and changes the mixture is not instantaneous. The stock system doesn't need to know if the temp changes from this to that in 10 seconds, it only needs to know if it is 35 deg. outside or 90 deg. and adjust the mixture accordingly.
The sensor WILL of course get chilled down by the nitrous but by the time you'v completed a 10 second blast, the ECU is just hearing about it.
Doug
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iflyphi
Zone Head
Posts: 542
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posted September 22, 2006 01:13 PM
Ok. Wasn't sure how that worked. So it really makes no difference where you shoot the NOS as the sensor will read it, but react way too late.
There is a tube that has a bolt in it, in the battery box, all the way on the left side. Take out that bolt, run the NOS line through that into the airbox, silicone the end of the line in the box, and your done.
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halvefast
Zone Head
Posts: 806
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posted September 22, 2006 02:30 PM
I'm still confused, how does a dry kit work, is it only getting the extra fuel thru ths PC3 or is the bike way rich to begin with? I've seen the module MPS sells that goes full rich when nos is activated. I was just reading on Psychobike about some guys spraying 100+ dry kits by raising the fuel press., larger fuel rail, and other safety switches. But what are they triggering the extra fuel with? They are just raising fuel pressure before they spray.
Please help
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Texas Mile 200.256mph - Oct. 2007 (Update 202.577mph Oct 2008) NOS assisted
ECTA Ohio Mile 195.132mph
TexasMile 2012 199.9 mph all motor!
Streetriders Shootout 2008 series Pro/ET Champ!
Streetriders Shootout 2007 Series Pro/ET Runner-up!
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Shane661
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Posts: 11494
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posted September 22, 2006 03:10 PM
My question is pretty simple:
When you spray, does the ECU automatically richen up the mixture? If so, how is it determining the amount, and with what engine sensor?
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iflyphi
Zone Head
Posts: 542
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posted September 22, 2006 03:15 PM
quote:
My question is pretty simple:
When you spray, does the ECU automatically richen up the mixture? If so, how is it determining the amount, and with what engine sensor?
No, not to my knowledge. You have to do it with the PC. Just push the "high" button twice to richen.
Muzzy is working on a "fast map switch" box that will allow you to have two maps for your PC. One is normal, and the second is tuned for NOS. So when you hit the NOS button, the NOS map gets instantly loaded. When you release the button, back to normal.
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dougmeyer
Needs a job
moderated
Posts: 2713
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posted September 22, 2006 06:12 PM
Halvefast,
Dry kits, by definition, add no fuel. SO the only way to get the most out of them is either to set the mixture on the rich side to begin with, or simultaneously trigger some other method to add fuel. The temp in the airbox does go down immediately when you spray and this will tell the ECU to go richer but this does not happen quick enough to be of any real value in a drag race.
If you have some method of tuning (like a Power Commander), you can enrichen the portion of the map that would be active above a certain rpm or throttle opening. You are correct if you figure that the bike will be rich in this area of the map off the spray. But it will be closer to correct on it. There are also other ways- You can use a box that will hold more than one map and will switch to a richer one when you hit it. This is what Rob had on the bike I rode and it worked bitchin' but it was a prototype and I don't know where he is on it right now.
You can also boost the fuel pressure when you hit the button. You can do this by upping the voltage to the pump. This is usually done with a transformer that steps it up briefly when you spray.
All this is why all dry systems have a fairly low power limit. No matter what you do you only have available what fuel the stock system will flow either when commanded to be "rich" or what the injectors will flow at a (slightly) higher pressure.
On cars it is much easier to use a dry kit because most car F.I. systems are very fast reacting "closed loop" systems that instantaneously read the lean condition caused by the the increased mass airflow, lower temp, and high O2 in the exhaust and enrichen within a half a second or so.
Aftermarket motorcycle ECUs like the EFI and DTA can do this too, because they are closed loop and offer multiple maps and internal trigger circuits.
OR, you can install a wet kit which adds fuel at the same time as the N2O and have the best of everything- a clean runner off the button and a nearly correct mixture on the bottle with up to an added 200 or more hp.
Doug
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halvefast
Zone Head
Posts: 806
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posted September 23, 2006 02:01 AM
Edited By: halvefast on 23 Sep 2006 03:02
Thanks Doug, that clears up alot of questions. 
____________
Texas Mile 200.256mph - Oct. 2007 (Update 202.577mph Oct 2008) NOS assisted
ECTA Ohio Mile 195.132mph
TexasMile 2012 199.9 mph all motor!
Streetriders Shootout 2008 series Pro/ET Champ!
Streetriders Shootout 2007 Series Pro/ET Runner-up!
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teetime86
Parking Attendant
Speed, and Women, Never Enough
Posts: 2
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posted April 02, 2009 10:19 PM
I jetted mine straight into the intakes, on the rubber part, just before the manifold.
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KZScott
Needs a life
high on speed
Posts: 7235
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posted April 03, 2009 05:30 PM
with one nozzle, put it in the middle of the air box pointing ahead, it will get mixed with the air coming from the ram air tubes and should be (kinda) evenly mixed after it gets thru the air filters. probly fine for 40hp, any more and you are really gambling as to if one cylinder is getting too much nitrous and not enough fuel(as in one goes lean and melts stuff). a slightly better way is to "T" ("Y" is better) the line and run a nozzle in each ram air tube spraying towards the air box. IMO i wouldnt go over 60 without going direct port. as in one nozzle per cylinder (or spraybar). i have the wet setup Doug mentions (NOS Fogger system). I like the option of going huge without stressing the stock pump or injectors(just motor parts  ) . just one of the many ways to do it. remember a dry kit isnt going to do much for you if you dont add fuel. nitrous doesnt burn, it allows you to burn extra fuel, and it has to come from somewhere!
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