TeamSpeed
Expert Class
Posts: 449
|
posted September 15, 2006 04:58 PM
 Edited By: TeamSpeed on 15 Sep 2006 18:01
In middle of Brock installation, thoughts & questions...
I received my street gen system and decided to rip the bike apart. Open the muffler, it looks great, I went with the CF can. I start to disassemble the bike, holy crap, I end up with something like 13 or 14 pieces with the old exhaust off, crazy, I hope I am able to remember how it all goes back. I loosen the bottom bolt on the radiator and push it out as far as it will go, which is not too far, and rest it on the bracket that holds it. Then I open the header box.....
1) The 3/4 cylinder where it merges and is supposed to go into the 2 into 1 collector is dimpled, little concerned, but was able to straighten it all out with a pliers. It wasn't shipping damage, it was all wrapped in the middle of the box, must have happened at the manufacturer.
2) The instructions are for the busa, even with how to modify the air box? I call, and they ask what is written on the outside of the header box, and it says ZX14, so they just sent the wrong instructions. Which also means I am missing the red kleen air plug. Brocks personnel apologize and stated they will get one out immediately. The lack of directions was fine, I used Raptor's informative set anyway.
3) To plug the hose, I took auto weather stripping, took off the adhesive backing and rolled it into a plug, and jammed it down into the hose. It is stuck in there and isn't moving. Should work temporarily, I will take the side panel off some time in the future I guess, and replace it with the real plug.
I get it all on, and find out I have 2 springs left, no place for them, so they must be extras. I also have a clearance problem now. The pipe hits the suspension frame point, and is only about 1/4" from the oil filter and about 1/2" from the radiator. Those don't bother me, I assume that is okay, I adjusted everything as far as I could with a long screwdriver, and I put some exhaust wrap between the exhaust and the suspension frame. It wouldn't move any more, so I tightened everything down at that point, all finished with that! Started it up quickly, holy crap, it is loud, louder than my 12R was with the muzzy, I think, but of course with an extra 150 or so CCs, it would be, and I think my carbon muzzy had a little more baffling/packing.
I pivot the tank up and support it with a big spongy ball at the bottom and a 1x2 piece of wood at the top. I had no problems with the screws on the flies except the far one on the 2nd cyl. I was using a shorter handled screwdriver and halfway stripped the head of that screw because I could not get a perfectly perpendicular angle on the screw head. A little freaked at this time, because I really want the flies out. I found a #2 15" craftsman, and it was perfect. It seats tight into the screw, bites, and it comes free. I used this for all the others, then used a magnet to fish out the screws. Flies are really cheap and thin, and have a thin film of oil on them, which helps hold any microscopic shavings from the screw head. They are now done too!
Now I am ready to install the PC3. How the heck are folks getting the two headed harness down through everything to get it over to the throttle bodies? I am almost ready just to install it where they suggest, it will be the quickest way, then I have the hour left to get everything all back together. Was hoping to ride it out tonight, but probably won't happen.
So, I have questions about the clearance to the oil filter and the pc3 routing. Any tips or thoughts would be good.
  
|
Bently
Needs a life
2012 14r In Blue and no Mods!
Posts: 5428
|
posted September 15, 2006 05:02 PM
I had no clearance issues with mine any where, just left everthing loose and pushed it around until it was where I wanted it, Pc was easy less then 10 minute install, I put it up where there directions should you and at first I did not like it there, but now it don't bother me that bad. If I remember right I took the coolant bottle and bracket off to route the harness through.
|
TeamSpeed
Expert Class
Posts: 449
|
posted September 15, 2006 05:21 PM
The only reason I want to put it under the seat is if I decide to add dynojet expansions like timing or quickshifter. I don't think the suggestion location will be sufficient to hold other devices, but I might be wrong.
I left everything loose as well, and the only issue is where the pipe goes past the rear suspension frame. The clearance around the oil filter should be sufficient enough to allow the filter to come off, guess I will find out later. I don't see how I could have loosened anything enough to make the headers move over any more.
|
Bently
Needs a life
2012 14r In Blue and no Mods!
Posts: 5428
|
posted September 15, 2006 05:25 PM
I have the quickshifter on my bike, pluged in fine the no problems at all!
|
lietoome
Needs a job
Posts: 2033
|
posted September 15, 2006 06:13 PM
yes, two extra springs.
|
TeamSpeed
Expert Class
Posts: 449
|
posted September 15, 2006 06:18 PM
Well, I tried to run Brocks Gen 3 map with no flies and it doesn't like it. Giving it just a bit of gas while idling, it acts like a bad miss, so I am guessing all the adjustments he has in the upper left quadrant was drowning it out a bit, so I zeroed everything. Still acting funny. I am stopping for now, don't want to piss off the neighbors, it is a little loud giving it gas all the time to check out how it is running. Think I will run through Brocks maps to see what else there is I can run in the morning...
Thanks for the input Bently and lie!
|
CrotchRocket
Moderator
Bracket Racing with Betsy
Posts: 8038
|
posted September 15, 2006 07:19 PM
When you connect the ground wire make sure you scrape away any paint, it needs to touch bare metal...
____________
Jason Miller StreetBike Seminars
*****DragRacers do it better, because they dont cut Corners*****
|
buddy
Expert Class
Posts: 335
|
posted September 15, 2006 07:26 PM
I was afraid I had a clearance problem at the frame near the shock. Until I tightened it up, there was about 1/8 clearance. After I tightened in up, there is now about 3/8 clearance.
I wanted the PC under the seat also. I'll say you have to REALLY want it under the seat to put it there. I ran the plugs through the frame on the right side and manipulated them over to the left side in order to get enough slack. I did it wrong the first time and had to redo it due to no slack. Took a long, long time. Unrelenting stubborness and determination helps.
I had 2 springs left over also, and the map works well on my 14.
|
Bently
Needs a life
2012 14r In Blue and no Mods!
Posts: 5428
|
posted September 15, 2006 08:07 PM
Map works very well on my 14 no trouble at all, team speed you sure the powercommander took the map alright, I run Brocks street map with flies removed on the street and switch to the track map with air cleaner removed for the drag strip and both maps are really good.
|
Rodanst6
Novice Class
Posts: 49
|
posted September 15, 2006 10:36 PM
TeamSpeed, I just received my Gen 3 yesterday and started my install as well. I have the same tight clearance with the oil filter, it remained no matter how many adjustments I tried to make. At the suspension point I have alot of clearance, and at the radiator I have good oclearance, with the exception of the pipe form the second cylinder from the left, that is about 1/4"-1/2".
I already had installed the PC where they recommended and agree that if you decide to add a piggy back module in the future it will be hard to find room for it.
I went with the TRE (I wanted something that would be easy to undo if I didn't like it or if I screwed it up during install, I am not a mechanic!) and installed Brock's TRE track map and it is performing very well, alot less popping during decel compared to the Muzzy Carbon slip-on's I had on before and smooth power with no hesitation anywhere in the range. It did run a little rough when I first started it but no problems afterwards.
My problem is I believe I have a exhaust leak. After the great test ride I pull into the garage and let it run so I can adjust the idle (it had dropped from 1100 pre install to 900 post install) and I notice a sound like exhaust noise coming from the collector area, either midpipe or header connection. It was too hot to check so I will let it cool and try to address in the morning.
I'm guessin that is where the noise is from, my flanges were torqued to 9 ft-lbs the headers went on nicely so I'm assuming that is good and I used the Ultra Copper. We will see tomorrow, I hope I don't have to restart from the beginning......
|
stevewfl
Moderator
Posts: 27920
|
posted September 16, 2006 01:15 AM
My oil filter clearance looks TIGHT on my gen 3 too, no matter what I did to try to adjust. Everyone told me it'll be fine, I guess I'll see if I can get it off to change the oil. My map seems great, brock sent preloaded it gen3 stock flie-in. I hooked the laptop up and verified a map was loaded anyway. I didn't even have to loosen my radiator per directions I was freely given. Was no prob except one spring and the directions warned put it on beforehand.
I used raptor 14's awesome directions, if you need help putting the bike back together here you go: http://www.bikeland.org/board/viewthread.php?TID=25260&FID=27
____________
2010 Concours14
'08 R1 YAMAHA
ZX14 gone!
CBR600RR track bike
|
cls
Expert Class
Posts: 410
|
posted September 16, 2006 03:23 AM
My map's great, but I have the oil filter clearance problem, too. I had my stuff put on, so I just noticed a couple of days ago when I went to change my oil. The header was actually hitting the filter. Brock's folks said they "had a tendency to work their way back into the filter, as the bike was run over time." It took me and my mechanic both to do an oil change. We had to wrestle the header off the oil filter to get a wrench on it, and get it off. To the tune of almost an hour and a half. This is my first dissatisfaction w/the Brock's stuff. And I was pretty dissatisfied! And forget using the longer Pure One 14610 oil filter I'd bought . There ain't no way.
Ideas are always welcome. I am the mechanical retard.
|
TeamSpeed
Expert Class
Posts: 449
|
posted September 16, 2006 03:49 AM
Well, I think I have a bad PC3. I loaded a zero map, reset the closed throttle position, and tried to start the bike this morning cold. It wouldn't fire up, and all I smell is fuel. I unplugged it and ran the stock configuration with the factory ECU, and it fires right up. So all the rough running and loading up looks to be purely a power commander issue. Wonderful...
|
johns
Expert Class
Posts: 205
|
posted September 16, 2006 05:11 AM
Team Speed make absoloutely sure you have a good power commander ground. I always take my power commander ground wires directly to the ground terminal on the battery even if I have to solder an extension on the ground wire. It wouldn't surprise me if you have one with a problem though. I have had two power commanders I returned for warranty repair in the last 5 years. Both were replaced under warranty but it took about 6 weeks on each one. I still don't like the location Dynojet picked but thats where I mounted it. If they had given us three to four more inches of harness it would have gone under the seat. The shifter option will work fine where the power commander is mounted because it doesn't require another module just a wire lead (two wire harness) that plugs into the power commander. I am using the handlebar button shifter option from Dynojet which is close to the power commander. I left my USB harness from Dynojet plugged up and ran the harness back to the seat so I don't have to take any covers off to plug into the power commander and make map changes.
____________
2006 ZX-14 (sold)
2012 ZX-14R (Brock's Perf. project bike Louisville Slugger)
2013 Honda VFR1200F
2003 124 C.I. H.D. Super glide
|
TeamSpeed
Expert Class
Posts: 449
|
posted September 16, 2006 06:41 AM
Took it out with all the panels off, got some strange looks, exhaust tone sounds good, it runs fine, I don't feel any lean lag anywhere with the factory map. I tried everything with the power commander, did a ground check and it was grounded fine. Just a bad power commander, which sucks, because it is supposed to be really nice this weekend, and Schnitz doesn't even have any in stock, otherwise I would make an emergency trip over to Decatur to pick one up.
|
Bently
Needs a life
2012 14r In Blue and no Mods!
Posts: 5428
|
posted September 16, 2006 06:49 AM
Still can't believe it took two people a 1 1/2 to change oil. I've changed oil 3 times with the Brock system on and it is a piece of cake less then 20 minutes. My pipes have never moved into my filter.
|
flatoutbu
Pro
Posts: 1054
|
posted September 16, 2006 07:29 AM
I tested a PC for schnitz that had the same problem. They sent it back to schnitz and then they sent it to me...I plugged it into my bike and no problems....the 2 things that I seen was a bad ground or the main plug wasn't locked into place. I use the ground that the battery uses and made sure the plug snaps in tight. I ran the wires down the left side of the bike and mounted it under the seat...never had a problem. It sounds like a ground problem too me. Plug it back in and use a small wire wrapped around the ground to probe around for a good ground spot..then try starting the bike up.
____________
06 Blue 14
9.008 at 153mph @ 195 suited
|
stevewfl
Moderator
Posts: 27920
|
posted September 16, 2006 07:35 AM
I use the ground under/near the Rad fluid jug per Raptor's instructions he posted, and its been zero problems
____________
2010 Concours14
'08 R1 YAMAHA
ZX14 gone!
CBR600RR track bike
|
TeamSpeed
Expert Class
Posts: 449
|
posted September 16, 2006 08:02 AM
Edited By: TeamSpeed on 16 Sep 2006 09:10
quote:
I tested a PC for schnitz that had the same problem. They sent it back to schnitz and then they sent it to me...I plugged it into my bike and no problems....the 2 things that I seen was a bad ground or the main plug wasn't locked into place. I use the ground that the battery uses and made sure the plug snaps in tight. I ran the wires down the left side of the bike and mounted it under the seat...never had a problem. It sounds like a ground problem too me. Plug it back in and use a small wire wrapped around the ground to probe around for a good ground spot..then try starting the bike up.
I tried different grounds. Once the bike is warmed up, and I hook up the PC3, the bike will start, but won't rev up, it chokes and cuts out, won't match the throttle position. I have tried 3 different grounding points. I will try one last time to attach a long wire over to the battery connection to the frame. The plugs go in with an authoritative snap and won't push together anymore. There are no bent pins.
Update: Just tried it right to the battery ground with an extended wire. Bike still sputters and surges. HP cycles in Florida has responded to my initial email with all the same suggestion, hopefully they can priority a new one out and I can send this one back.
|
cls
Expert Class
Posts: 410
|
posted September 16, 2006 11:54 AM
quote:
Still can't believe it took two people a 1 1/2 to change oil. I've changed oil 3 times with the Brock system on and it is a piece of cake less then 20 minutes. My pipes have never moved into my filter.
Yep, that's certainly not what I was expecting. I'll have to see what else I can find out from Brock.
|
TeamSpeed
Expert Class
Posts: 449
|
posted September 16, 2006 12:01 PM
Bentley, what size gap do have between your filter and pipe? I believe I have almost a half inch, maybe a tiny less.
|
Rodanst6
Novice Class
Posts: 49
|
posted September 16, 2006 01:23 PM
TeamSpeed, I know you didn't ask me but I have a 1/2" space as well.
|
|
|
HOME
NEW TOPIC