fish_antlers
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The Truth is Out There
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posted August 28, 2006 01:11 PM
like I said, until Brock actually tells ME to edit his article, what he wrote stands.
- Hope this makes sense.
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Bently
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posted August 28, 2006 01:29 PM
It makes sense, I was just wondering if you had tried to call him. Just hate to see new members reading something that needs updated, thats all.
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stevewfl
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posted August 28, 2006 02:01 PM
Brock pretty much said it all in the thread fastestbusaaround cited, and the comment "reversed his thinking" appears clear and accurate. I've been surprised the article hadn't been updated.
But....none of my business anyway as I'm just a customer around here. I appreciated the Bikeland discount, even if some of the hype-articles do remain stale.
Staleness (in this case) is certain to raise the probability of increased total sales revenue of the TRE's.
Ok what baffles me is how one could ever wonder "Why more TRE talk?"
Thanks for allowing my 
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fastestbusaaround
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posted August 28, 2006 03:41 PM
TRE = Truely Retarded Egghead :P
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tonytooth
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posted August 31, 2006 09:00 AM
Man I was hoping to find the answer I needed here in this thread but I can't make a final descision. Maybe some of you can help. I just put a Tiforce full system on my bike. The bike has a lean stumble around 4000rpm's. Naturally I need to tune. I just ordered my PC for it and I will take it for a custom map. My initial thought was that I was going to remove the flies as well before I go for the tune but then I talked to Lee (smokinzx14) and he mentioned Brocks article which I have read. He thougth maybe the TRE was the way to go. Now I am confused.
I consider myself a drag racer but I ride it more on the street. Can you guys offer your feedback. Full System, PC with custom tune, street/drag bike. What would you do, TRE or Flies out if you had my setup?
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tonytooth
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posted August 31, 2006 09:01 AM
quote:
Man I was hoping to find the answer I needed here in this thread but I can't make a final descision. Maybe some of you can help. I just put a Tiforce full system on my bike. The bike has a lean stumble around 4000rpm's. Naturally I need to tune. I just ordered my PC for it and I will take it for a custom map. My initial thought was that I was going to remove the flies as well before I go for the tune but then I talked to Lee (smokinzx14) and he mentioned Brocks article which I have read. He thougth maybe the TRE was the way to go. Now I am confused.
I consider myself a drag racer but I ride it more on the street. Can you guys offer your feedback? Full System, PC with custom tune, street / drag bike. What would you do, TRE or Flies out if you had my setup?
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zerMATT
Pro
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posted August 31, 2006 10:08 AM
 Edited By: zerMATT on 31 Aug 2006 11:08
quote:
What would you do, TRE or Flies out if you had my setup?
You can do either, they both net the same results. But either way, you're gonna want some dyno time to "make things right", or you risk running a little lean. Seems like just pulling the flies would save $70 to put towards the the dyno time that you're gonna need anyway...
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fastestbusaaround
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posted August 31, 2006 03:42 PM
quote:
Man I was hoping to find the answer I needed here in this thread but I can't make a final descision. Maybe some of you can help. I just put a Tiforce full system on my bike. The bike has a lean stumble around 4000rpm's. Naturally I need to tune. I just ordered my PC for it and I will take it for a custom map. My initial thought was that I was going to remove the flies as well before I go for the tune but then I talked to Lee (smokinzx14) and he mentioned Brocks article which I have read. He thougth maybe the TRE was the way to go. Now I am confused.
I consider myself a drag racer but I ride it more on the street. Can you guys offer your feedback. Full System, PC with custom tune, street/drag bike. What would you do, TRE or Flies out if you had my setup?
Pull the flies; it will get rid of your lean stumble...then you can ponder a TRE or permanent fly removal. You have nothing to lose and everything to gain by trying. Many of us have already done it with no regrets...and a big smile in the end. 
You still need to remap either way, but you'll have an idea of what to expect.
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tonytooth
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posted August 31, 2006 03:53 PM
Wait I thought by pulling the flies out that would make it more lean? Is that not the case? So by removing the flies I will have more fuel? Shit if so then consider them gone.
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smokinZX14
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posted August 31, 2006 04:35 PM
quote:
quote:
Man I was hoping to find the answer I needed here in this thread but I can't make a final descision. Maybe some of you can help. I just put a Tiforce full system on my bike. The bike has a lean stumble around 4000rpm's. Naturally I need to tune. I just ordered my PC for it and I will take it for a custom map. My initial thought was that I was going to remove the flies as well before I go for the tune but then I talked to Lee (smokinzx14) and he mentioned Brocks article which I have read. He thougth maybe the TRE was the way to go. Now I am confused.
I consider myself a drag racer but I ride it more on the street. Can you guys offer your feedback. Full System, PC with custom tune, street/drag bike. What would you do, TRE or Flies out if you had my setup?
Pull the flies; it will get rid of your lean stumble...then you can ponder a TRE or permanent fly removal. You have nothing to lose and everything to gain by trying. Many of us have already done it with no regrets...and a big smile in the end.
You still need to remap either way, but you'll have an idea of what to expect.
Fast i have rode tonys bike and with Ti force pipe it was a bad lean studder right at 3500 rpm .. Pulling the flies is only going to make that worse ( leaner) Now way is it going to get richer and remove the stumble....If he pulls the flies it needs to be mapped asap...Hell it needs a map right now to fix his lean studder.... Smokin..
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speedgene
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posted August 31, 2006 04:45 PM
quote:
....If he pulls the flies it needs to be mapped asap...Hell it needs a map right now to fix his lean studder.... Smokin..
1+
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tonytooth
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posted August 31, 2006 04:46 PM
Hey Lee,
I just talked with John and was explaining this. He thought it may be possible that the lean stumble could be eliminated by doing this. Obviously the bike will be getting more air but it will also get more fuel. It could be possible the stumble would go away. I understand the bike will be lean either way and needs a map no matter what. I am very curious if the stumble would ease up with the flies out.
Hmmm I am temped. I need some more input from others with the same stumble issue after adding a few system? This bike spits and sputters around 3800-4000 rpm's pretty bad. Anyone else had this same issue?
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smokinZX14
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posted August 31, 2006 05:05 PM
quote:
Hey Lee,
I just talked with John and was explaining this. He thought it may be possible that the lean stumble could be eliminated by doing this. Obviously the bike will be getting more air but it will also get more fuel. It could be possible the stumble would go away. I understand the bike will be lean either way and needs a map no matter what. I am very curious if the stumble would ease up with the flies out.
Hmmm I am temped. I need some more input from others with the same stumble issue after adding a few system? This bike spits and sputters around 3800-4000 rpm's pretty bad. Anyone else had this same issue?
Tony we know from Brocks test it goes leaner with the flies out ...So if your studder is because its lean then it going to get worse...If your studder is because its rich it may help... I'm betting on lean seeing that the bike is allready lean at that RPM from the factory... Tony you can pull the flies out if you like and i'm sure it will give you a kick in the pants, everyone that has pulled them love the extra power ...I just worry that your bike with your pipe and studder problem may cause more problems and possible damage... Tony Nobody that i know has had a studder problem after installing a pipe so to find an answer here maybe be a problem ... You allready know how i feel about the flies and you have seen my bike at the track and on the street Kickin ass.... Nobody including Victor gets by me ....Once i get all i can get out of my bike i may try a TRE but not untill i max out what i have ...
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fastestbusaaround
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posted August 31, 2006 05:07 PM
quote:
quote:
quote:
Man I was hoping to find the answer I needed here in this thread but I can't make a final descision. Maybe some of you can help. I just put a Tiforce full system on my bike. The bike has a lean stumble around 4000rpm's. Naturally I need to tune. I just ordered my PC for it and I will take it for a custom map. My initial thought was that I was going to remove the flies as well before I go for the tune but then I talked to Lee (smokinzx14) and he mentioned Brocks article which I have read. He thougth maybe the TRE was the way to go. Now I am confused.
I consider myself a drag racer but I ride it more on the street. Can you guys offer your feedback. Full System, PC with custom tune, street/drag bike. What would you do, TRE or Flies out if you had my setup?
Pull the flies; it will get rid of your lean stumble...then you can ponder a TRE or permanent fly removal. You have nothing to lose and everything to gain by trying. Many of us have already done it with no regrets...and a big smile in the end.
You still need to remap either way, but you'll have an idea of what to expect.
Fast i have rode tonys bike and with Ti force pipe it was a bad lean studder right at 3500 rpm .. Pulling the flies is only going to make that worse ( leaner) Now way is it going to get richer and remove the stumble....If he pulls the flies it needs to be mapped asap...Hell it needs a map right now to fix his lean studder.... Smokin..
I was only suggesting that he temporarily pull hem to see the difference...then get a PC3 and map once he could see the difference. Many of us have complained about a lack of power at that range (which could be confused with a "lean stumble"), If that were the case, it would be addressed by removing the flies...and then mapping, but just to test without mapping would indicate whether or not it was a lean stumble of just the usual KHI choked intake.
It is a bit surprising that he is having these issues with just a pipe change...are you sure the pipes are properly seated at the manifold? If there's a leak or badly seated gasket, that could be the source of the problem...it was on my HD. I removed the front pipe and found a missing gasket at the manifold so that was corrected by installing one. I was getting tons of backfire on decel and lost power till I corrected that...worth checking IMO...
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smokinZX14
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posted August 31, 2006 05:13 PM
quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
Man I was hoping to find the answer I needed here in this thread but I can't make a final descision. Maybe some of you can help. I just put a Tiforce full system on my bike. The bike has a lean stumble around 4000rpm's. Naturally I need to tune. I just ordered my PC for it and I will take it for a custom map. My initial thought was that I was going to remove the flies as well before I go for the tune but then I talked to Lee (smokinzx14) and he mentioned Brocks article which I have read. He thougth maybe the TRE was the way to go. Now I am confused.
I consider myself a drag racer but I ride it more on the street. Can you guys offer your feedback. Full System, PC with custom tune, street/drag bike. What would you do, TRE or Flies out if you had my setup?
Pull the flies; it will get rid of your lean stumble...then you can ponder a TRE or permanent fly removal. You have nothing to lose and everything to gain by trying. Many of us have already done it with no regrets...and a big smile in the end.
You still need to remap either way, but you'll have an idea of what to expect.
Fast i have rode tonys bike and with Ti force pipe it was a bad lean studder right at 3500 rpm .. Pulling the flies is only going to make that worse ( leaner) Now way is it going to get richer and remove the stumble....If he pulls the flies it needs to be mapped asap...Hell it needs a map right now to fix his lean studder.... Smokin..
I was only suggesting that he temporarily pull hem to see the difference...then get a PC3 and map once he could see the difference. Many of us have complained about a lack of power at that range (which could be confused with a "lean stumble"), If that were the case, it would be addressed by removing the flies...and then mapping, but just to test without mapping would indicate whether or not it was a lean stumble of just the usual KHI choked intake.
It is a bit surprising that he is having these issues with just a pipe change...are you sure the pipes are properly seated at the manifold? If there's a leak or badly seated gasket, that could be the source of the problem...it was on my HD. I removed the front pipe and found a missing gasket at the manifold so that was corrected by installing one. I was getting tons of backfire on decel and lost power till I corrected that...worth checking IMO...
Fast i rode it the other night and it's not just a loss of power...The engine drops holes and has like a dead miss like you pulled his plug wires.... Mine never has done that, tony rode mine and felt the flat spot but it nothing like his problem ....I agree Fast if he wants to pull the flies for a test only...But i would have a P/C in hand and a tunner on call....
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Tampa Bay , FL .. Brocks Performance Dealer ..
Gen 2 ZX14R Best ET 8.43 , Best MPH 164.95
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tonytooth
Zone Head
Posts: 647
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posted August 31, 2006 05:14 PM
Not sure about the gaskets? I didn't see any or add any when I changed to the full system. Is this something I should have seen or messed with?
This is a Tiforce full system. The pipes are rather large so the system flows very well (if not the most of any system).
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smokinZX14
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posted August 31, 2006 05:20 PM
Edited By: smokinZX14 on 31 Aug 2006 18:25
quote:
Not sure about the gaskets? I didn't see any or add any when I changed to the full system. Is this something I should have seen or messed with?
This is a Tiforce full system. The pipes are rather large so the system flows very well (if not the most of any system).
Tony most times the gaskets ( copper) stays in the head ... Sometime they do fall out but i have never heard yours sounding like an exhaust leak ...Remember Rodnys bike when he lost his exhaust gaskets ...lol... It popped like hell... You can drop the head pipe and have a look... You should see 4 copper gaskets up in the exhaust ports ....
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Tampa Bay , FL .. Brocks Performance Dealer ..
Gen 2 ZX14R Best ET 8.43 , Best MPH 164.95
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fastestbusaaround
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posted August 31, 2006 05:21 PM
Uh oh....me thinks you were supposed to re-use the old gaskets when you changed the pipes...and I can see the pipes are quite large, which might explain part of your problem...not much backpressure, no mapping and possibly no gaskets...might wanna take a look at your old pipes to see if they're still on there. In any case, you need a PC3 and a map.
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tonytooth
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posted August 31, 2006 05:23 PM
I'll check the old pipes right now.
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tonytooth
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posted August 31, 2006 05:27 PM
Nothing, I assume they stayed in the bike. I'll check the header bolts this weekend to make sure they are still tight. I have another canister on this bike originally that had a tapered core for back pressure but it did the same thing with that canister on the first night.
I don't think that's the issue but I'll check everything to be sure.
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3Boysand3Bikes
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posted August 31, 2006 05:43 PM
It is VERY simple... #1 With the TRE or with pulling the flies you need to re-map. which means a $275.00 PC for both... Ad $70.00 for TRE =$345.00 #2 If you use the TRE you will lose the nuetral light, the launch light (who cares...) and the gear indicator... nothing really essential.. but still a loss #3 If you remove the Flies you lose none of the above... and you gain at least as much HP and Torque gains... #4 pulling the flies takes about 10 minutes longer. #5 from those that have pulled the flies and re-mapped... you have not heard of ONE person saying that they were not happy, (except from Brock's report, which if he did recind as FBA has shown). I have heard at least 3 people trade in their TRE for the No Flies... #6 People who have left the bike stock seem happy with the bike as it is. #7 There are NO drivability issues on the street. Listen to everyone that has posted on here. So I agree with you Fish... with such overwhelming evidence... there should be no more TRE talk... Pull the flies... End of story and thread...
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TeamSpeed
Expert Class
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posted August 31, 2006 06:03 PM
Edited By: TeamSpeed on 31 Aug 2006 19:05
Just make your own TRE with parts from Radio Shack for about $3. This way you won't have much invested and you can quickly revert back later when you pull the flies. AFter reading Ivan's crap on the other forum, I didn't want to give him any of my money, so I pulled out the service manual, found the correct resistance, and made a smaller and cheaper version of the TRE.
Post that describes this: http://www.zx14ninja.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=1565
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fastestbusaaround
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posted August 31, 2006 06:27 PM
Well...it doesn't get much easier than that eh? (Can you tell I'm a Canuck eh?) Even easier to test your bike to see if this helps...
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sands
Expert Class
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posted September 01, 2006 01:22 AM
Yeah, if you need a power commander and remap for both the TRE and no flies, it's a no brainer...Save the $70 that would've been spent on the TRE and remove the flies...
No big mystery....
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BlueLIGHTning
Expert Class
Posts: 227
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posted September 01, 2006 01:58 PM
Having the gear indicator stuck at 6 and the rest of the stuff that the TRE screws up would drive me nuts when you get the same or more from just removing the flies seems pretty simple answer. Thanks again Brock for taking the time to do this.
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