dubious
Needs a life
Needs more time to ride!
Posts: 8442
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posted August 24, 2006 09:17 PM
I would put money on it the radiator is damaged on the side it went down.
Next time you have your fairings off take a look.
The bottom corners of the rad are very , if not thee most susceptible part sticking out down there.....
____________
natural selection.....
destiny will overcome intervention.
Some are not worthy of the effort.
  
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blitzkrieg
Needs a job
Road kill = Free lunch.
Posts: 2044
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posted August 24, 2006 09:28 PM
There is nothing wrong with the chain that i can see so a quick tug on the clutch would have saved the day if in fact something catastrophic happened down in the bowels. I seriously doubt that is the case and the fact this dude has got a lawyer involved already either means the zx-14 has some serious flaws or he's looking for a free lunch.
I think the flat front tire IS important. I've seen a lot of bikes go down, roll, bounce, blah, blah, blah and it's very rare for a tire to go flat unless there was a serious blow to it.
My guess is the "metallic" noise our boy heard was either the sound of his front rim hitting a Jersey pothole or a chunk of angle iron or some other debris.
Too bad he doesn't live in Denver, I'd tell you all what really happened in an hour if that bitch was in my garage. 
I feel bad about the injuries. I wouldn't wish road rash on my worst enemy, but that's God's way of telling you that GEAR DOESN'T DO ANY GOOD BUNGIED TO THE BACK OF YOUR BIKE ya fucking tool.
Blueford? Who does this remind you of that also came from NJ? Hint: NinjaEd.
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halvefast
Zone Head
Posts: 806
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posted August 25, 2006 06:03 AM
 Edited By: halvefast on 25 Aug 2006 07:05
Just my 2 cents:
I too noticed the flat front tire, but why is the front fender so dis-lodged, it only has minor rashes?
And the right fork seal looks to be leaking. Seems to me something on the frontend is fishy.
Rear wheel appears to turn ok, no skid marks to unload the bike?
I believe Fish is looking for VIN to keep track if a problem does arise.
I have gone thru a recall problem similar to this with my Dad, on his Roadstar.
Tranny locked up, put him in intensive care for a week, we started tracking VIN's and polling
how many problems were out there, this lead to the recall on thousnds of bikes.
I don't believe it it a common problem, it really seems to be an isolated incedent,
look at his rear tire he can ride pretty good and gets it way over.
Again just my observations, hope it works out ok, Thank God he didn't get hurt more than roadrash.
Which good riding gear would have saved him from!!!
____________
Texas Mile 200.256mph - Oct. 2007 (Update 202.577mph Oct 2008) NOS assisted
ECTA Ohio Mile 195.132mph
TexasMile 2012 199.9 mph all motor!
Streetriders Shootout 2008 series Pro/ET Champ!
Streetriders Shootout 2007 Series Pro/ET Runner-up!
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blueford
Needs a job
Posts: 2984
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posted August 25, 2006 06:15 AM
He says;
quote:
Now standing next to the bike - the crankcase looked destroyed and oil/fluids were pouring onto the roadway.
Questions:
It appears there's no oil in the visible in the site glass, where did that oil go?
If the crankcase exploded would the lower cowl still be intact?
Is it possible that a grenaded engine could put a piece into the front brake assembly causing a lock up? The Golden BB??
Bob, Ed was like 6'4" and very dark Lebanese/Italian.
FBA, quote:
Fuck dude, stop posting the same story on all the boards...you probably crashed because you did something dumb like most everyone of us who has crashed before...what the fuck did you do...join every damn forum to spam your crash story? Get a life.
You were the first to rip the poor guy as usual!
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SoCal ZX-14 Rider
Expert Class
Posts: 351
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posted August 25, 2006 06:21 AM
Edited By: SoCal ZX-14 Rider on 25 Aug 2006 07:51
All I see is a guy who wrecked and his wrecked bike.
In all the years all of us have been riding and with all the collective knowlege and experience of all you guys put together, has anyone ever heard of a spontanious 2 wheel lock-up or catastrphic engine failure (without running out of oil) that would cause a crash on any bike ever made? And with the rider not having a clue what happened?
I don't see any clear evidence from the photos that the engine failure caused his crash.
We need to know the final conclusion to the investigation, if there is one.
I feel for the guy that he went down, but he's alive and maybe next time he will ride with some protective gear and testify to all that everyone should not leave home without it.
The point of his crash should have been "riding without protective gear" and the pain it causes.
Man, I'm getting knee pads this weekend after looking at his knee! I ride way faster than 60 mph, I think most of us do.
____________
If I'm not riding her, I'm dreaming about riding her! Mount up!
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blueford
Needs a job
Posts: 2984
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posted August 25, 2006 07:58 AM
Edited By: blueford on 25 Aug 2006 08:58
He says,
quote:
I mentioned 'wheels' before only because the front tire is flat and has a nasty bald spot on the tread - like it locked and skidded... but going 55-60 on a straight road you don't slide THAT far and the front end has already been pieced apart and no problems found... I can confirm 100% that I did not brake
To me if you lock the front brake enough to burn a hole at 60 you'll be doing a airplane loop.
Saw a MotoGP race where a bike moved into someone's brake handle and wham the fucker just flipped.
So my point is, how can one pin the front tire to the ground long enough to burn a hole in it? Unless it happened in the slide with the brake handle pinned?
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smokinZX14
Needs a life
Posts: 10197
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posted August 25, 2006 08:58 AM
quote:
He says;
quote:
Now standing next to the bike - the crankcase looked destroyed and oil/fluids were pouring onto the roadway.
Questions:
It appears there's no oil in the visible in the site glass, where did that oil go?
If the crankcase exploded would the lower cowl still be intact?
Is it possible that a grenaded engine could put a piece into the front brake assembly causing a lock up? The Golden BB??
Bob, Ed was like 6'4" and very dark Lebanese/Italian.
FBA, quote:
Fuck dude, stop posting the same story on all the boards...you probably crashed because you did something dumb like most everyone of us who has crashed before...what the fuck did you do...join every damn forum to spam your crash story? Get a life.
You were the first to rip the poor guy as usual!
Blue look at the rash on the lower cowl , right behind that is a engine cover.... With that much rash the engine cover has a hole it it .... That's where all the oil came from when it was laying on it's side .... I bet there is NO window in the motor from a rod or anything else, just a road rash hole....Looks like they loaded it into the back of a small truck so if the tire were locked up how did they do that? So even with a flat tire it still rolls ok ...If the trans locked up your not going to roll it up into a bed of a truck either.....Whatever the cause i'm betting it has something to do with the front tire...Blow out, pot hole, oil on the road or he grabbed to much front brake ...It could be something real simple like i did the other night at the drag strip .... I wheelied and slamed down hard and went into a tank slapper ....A good hard tank slapper could unseat bead of the tire with ease.... You think he is going to tell us that he was doing something that scew up the factory warrante? Hell i wouldn't !!! Could be why the fork seal is leaking or blown ... Hard landing do that to fork seals .... ask me how i know ...lol....
____________
Smokin Performance Cycles..
Tampa Bay , FL .. Brocks Performance Dealer ..
Gen 2 ZX14R Best ET 8.43 , Best MPH 164.95
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blueford
Needs a job
Posts: 2984
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posted August 25, 2006 09:34 AM
Edited By: blueford on 25 Aug 2006 10:35
Good points, thank you, I just hate mysteries, now I can get back to JonBenet Ramsey! 
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MATTZ14
Expert Class
Posts: 282
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posted August 25, 2006 09:58 AM
My down sensor works within 5 secs.
____________
Later days, better lays
07 BLACK ZX14 Getting customized waiting for the white stuff to go away
06 BLACK ZX14 GONE Recall was a little late.
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SoCal ZX-14 Rider
Expert Class
Posts: 351
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posted August 25, 2006 12:52 PM
Where is the testimony of the truck driver?
Where is the smoking man?
____________
If I'm not riding her, I'm dreaming about riding her! Mount up!
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3Boysand3Bikes
Expert Class
Posts: 382
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posted August 25, 2006 04:59 PM
quote:
Just read his shit at zx14.org. This is a real mystery!!
He doesn't have an attitude despite the usual from FBA, difficult in itself considering he's fucked up.
Need the photo of the HOLE, use 2 mirrors, one for light the other for the camera!!!
Blue
I gave a bit of a hard time also.... not just FBA.... the reason that I did was because he is asking questions that in my opinion needed better explaining by him, to us, in the first place. We all feel bad for anyone that goes down... but if there is a possibility of any of us having the same fate... I think ALL of the information should be included. That was my point. Give all of the details of what or what was not tested or found out!! If this happens to one of us in traffic we are pretty much gone. Maybe I am long winded... (okay... yes I am) but I would have given information as to what I had been told by the police, Kawasaki etc... Maybe he was given a gag order by his attorney... well other lives are more important than a freakin settlement. Just give us the scoop!! If he has truthfully given everything that he knows... that was all I was asking. However, if he doesn't remember what was happening prior to the accident, (like doing a wheelie at 120mph).. then don't tell us that you were just riding normal... His story to me really sounds like rider error, or something in the road... (I did state "sounds like".)... but if it is something with the bike, someone WOULD know by now!!! There is something that we are not being told... my measly two cents...
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dubious
Needs a life
Needs more time to ride!
Posts: 8442
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posted August 25, 2006 05:58 PM
on a 14....the sight glass will show empty when leaned over on the sidestand.
____________
natural selection.....
destiny will overcome intervention.
Some are not worthy of the effort.
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mugsymd
Expert Class
Posts: 169
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posted August 26, 2006 06:01 AM
Where is he???? He was fun to make fun of!
____________
1987 Red/White Ninja 750
1988 K1
1991 FatBoy
2004 VROD
2005 K1200S
2006 ZX-14 - Red
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Joe Cool
Novice Class
Posts: 54
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posted August 26, 2006 08:59 AM
Could have picked something up in the front tire and when the tire came around it hit the back side of the fender causing a lock up or very rapid deceleration. That would explain the flat tire and jacked up front fender. There isn't any evidence that I can see on the front tire to prove this but maybe it's still lodged between the tire & the fender or after the bike was down it was dislodged. Just some thoughts.
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stevewfl
Moderator
Posts: 27920
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posted August 26, 2006 09:28 AM
____________
2010 Concours14
'08 R1 YAMAHA
ZX14 gone!
CBR600RR track bike
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Stalwart
Needs a job
Posts: 3360
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posted August 26, 2006 09:49 AM
quote:
Could have picked something up in the front tire and when the tire came around it hit the back side of the fender causing a lock up or very rapid deceleration.
With the force required to stop the front wheel, the plastic fender would EXPLODE and the tire would continue to rotate. I still maintain the most probable cause is rider error until there is evidence to the contrary . . .
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Stuart
________________________________
Ridin' the Trump train.
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Tool man
Needs a job
Posts: 4493
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posted August 26, 2006 09:56 AM
quote:
Could have picked something up in the front tire and when the tire came around it hit the back side of the fender causing a lock up or very rapid deceleration. That would explain the flat tire and jacked up front fender. There isn't any evidence that I can see on the front tire to prove this but maybe it's still lodged between the tire & the fender or after the bike was down it was dislodged. Just some thoughts.
Could have also hit the oil filter or drain plug hence the oil leak.
CSI is fun 
____________
The banks are failing..
The banks are failing...
Invest in Ammo
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Bently
Needs a life
2012 14r In Blue and no Mods!
Posts: 5428
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posted August 26, 2006 03:01 PM
Agree think the fender would snap right off be stopping the tire.
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mugsymd
Expert Class
Posts: 169
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posted August 27, 2006 07:34 PM
Not to throw more stones - just curious. I was on-call with another doctor yesterday and she rides a "Duc" - and she tells me she has to be very careful because she has had her bike pushed over numerous times. Has anyone else had this experience with other "brands" of bikes. In over 25 years of riding, I have never had a bike tampered with......
____________
1987 Red/White Ninja 750
1988 K1
1991 FatBoy
2004 VROD
2005 K1200S
2006 ZX-14 - Red
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fish_antlers
Administrator
The Truth is Out There
Posts: 21896
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posted August 28, 2006 05:19 PM
from 14ninja.com
quote:
Here is a link to all the docs I could pull together...
http://www.afthole.com/bikeacc0706/bikeaccdocs0706.tif
(download and view in Window's Picture and Fax Viewer or similar *.tif reader)
Last 6 of VIN: 005801
Regarding the bald spot on the front wheel... no, I do not have a picture nor have I seen it. As with everything else that I did not personally experience on 7/27, I can only relay what my wife - who is far from being a mechanic, the dealer, the insurer etc... have told me so far.
After the accident, the truck driver said both wheels locked up... to me it seemed like the front alone locked - as I stated in the police report - because I could not imagine the bike slamming itself to the ground if the rear alone had locked. Due to my unfortunate vantage point as rider and the unexpected/rapid events following - most people should be able to understand that I cannot say much else for certain.
As for the previous comments/posts on reaction time - ONCE AGAIN - there was no warning or time to react - read the previous posts before you reply. I did not inadvertently hit the front brake or panic... anyone with such a severe lack of physical control shouldn't be operating any type of vehicle - let alone a bike. I was fully conscious throughout the whole ordeal and the only time I did not have full control of my actions was when I was busy skin-coating the road.
Now, let's all close our eyes and try to imagine a person with a 3 year old son, a huge damn mortgage payment, wife, demanding job, etc... a hardcore rider that actually doesn't drive like an ass on public roads and doesn't do things to further promote the negative stereotypes the general public already has of bikers. Just for kicks, let's also assume that as a father, I actually want to see my son grow up... that I actually want to grow old with my wife (and still be riding!)... that I don't want my wife to have to use my life insurance benefit to pay off our house... etc...
These are all things I wouldn't be worrying about now if:
- there were more cars on the road
- the truck didn't hop onto the curb to avoid me
- I was going much faster or in a turn...
As a good friend of mine put it very well after reading some of the replies/posts so far, there are "many riders out there who lack the experience and wherewithal and routinely crash and then blame it on the bike". So I can understand a certain amount of skepticism - but some of you guys are ridiculous.
As much as I'm half embarrassed to admit it, prior to this, I've only dropped a motorcycle twice in my entire life - and both times I was standing absolutely still, so it wasn't the bike's fault... But I assure you all that, despite what happened this time, I'll be riding a 14 again as soon as I sort all of this out.
Back to my bike...
Let's assume I was doing something stupid or just plain don't know how to ride - I'm going 55-60 on a straight road, crash and slide... At 55-60 mph, what needs to happen to create (to be specific this time...) almost $7000 in actual damage?... (The $8k previously mentioned includes towing, road clean up, etc.. also covered by the insurance company) The bike did not hit anything to justify a 60+% loss - maybe a couple grand in plastics, maybe tires and the mirror... The bike did not flip - it went down, slid on it's right side ONLY and stopped without hitting anything - this is one of the few things I can confirm because I was sliding next to it the whole time thinking "WTF just happened here?!?!!!!! I hope that truck I just passed saw me go down!..."
Since my last post, the dealer hasn't told me much other than the front tire was shot and essentially the whole front end is being replaced - AND the front end was also not the cause of the accident. I still have not seen the bike - I'm working in one form or another every waking minute of every day, and am just getting back on my feet. I do not have time to drive an hour+ to my dealer until there's a bike ready for me to pick up and ride home!
No surprise, but the lawyer is not moving as fast as I'd like either so I don't have much more to tell there...
To all those who tried to help here - again, much appreciated!! - but I'm really no closer to an answer (which is extremely aggravating in itself with or without this forum). If anyone has heard of a similar accident - with ANY bike - please email me.quote:
quote:
Flat? - can't rule out that a flat brought me down (but unfortunately can't rule out anything else either!) When my wife picked up the bike from the tow yard she took the pictures you saw - says there was nothing on the tires - other than the front flat... but I don't believe a blowout can cause a bike to do what it did anyway - and everyone I know personally that I've spoken to ruled that possibility out from the start.
Spin freely? - When the truck driver (and his passenger) stopped, they picked up the bike but were not able to get it out of the left lane or off the road... (he said he also rode and was watching me pass - he liked the bike, etc.. - plus I instructed him to pull the clutch and roll it... so, if it could have rolled, it should have) but the bike wasn't moving... again, I can't confirm their efforts - my hands were not usable at the moment... at the tow yard, my wife tells me 3 guys were able to drag the bike and lift onto the truck... at the dealer, they managed to get it in neutral and roll into the shop... my wife confirms they were then able to start it but didn't put it in gear - to quote, they said "Well, that's enough..." and cut the power.
front brakes? - I'll call dealer - I haven't seen the bike since the nice lady put me in the truck with blinking lights...
case maintenance?... i rode 24,000 miles last year - of the 2400+ on the 14, at least 1,000 of those were done without exceeding 6k rpm... most of my riding is also unfortunately done in commuting traffic... and roads patrolled by state, county and local police 24/7... in order to ride another 24,000 this year, I need to keep my license... but seriously, not trying to be funny - considering this, how much wear and tear can you expect in 3 weeks? Reading the road/track tests, this thing can take a beating... Better question - what would you have to be doing to this bike to cause this amount of damage in three weeks???! Break-in service was done just before 1,000 - again due to time constraints, but 400 light miles should not be a problem when I usually don't get out of second gear on my way back and forth to work.
However, since the last service was 1,400 miles prior (instead of the 1,800 it should have been) - agreed, the chain shouldn't be that dry but I keep my bikes shiny - stock rims included so I wouldn't put much weigh in the clean rim... btw/ the break-in service was not done by the 'selling dealer' and the lack of detail on their invoice - as to what they actually did or did not do to the bike - has already raised some questions... but no word on this since. I'll follow-up.
part of case? - honestly no idea whatsoever - other than seeing the oil pour out immediately after and seeing the pics my wife took... I have no idea where the hole is and the dealer 1) is not telling me anything new each time I call and 2) says only front has been pieced apart so far... (I'm not so happy with this either but as much as I want answers, I can't dedicate my life to this investigation either - i.e. take off work to be at the dealer, spend my retirement money on the lawyer, etc...)
I'll come back as soon as I know more...
____________
What business is it of yours where I'm from, Friendo?
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CrotchRocket
Moderator
Bracket Racing with Betsy
Posts: 8038
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posted August 28, 2006 05:29 PM
Edited By: CrotchRocket on 28 Aug 2006 18:31
quote:
Not to throw more stones - just curious. I was on-call with another doctor yesterday and she rides a "Duc" - and she tells me she has to be very careful because she has had her bike pushed over numerous times. Has anyone else had this experience with other "brands" of bikes. In over 25 years of riding, I have never had a bike tampered with......
I guess you didnt realize what thread you were in???...No problem we all have done it...
 
Just playing around!!!
____________
Jason Miller StreetBike Seminars
*****DragRacers do it better, because they dont cut Corners*****
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sphynx
Novice Class
Posts: 95
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posted September 25, 2006 12:49 PM
Not sure who's interested but seems homegrown and dealer "found" the cause of the accident. Seems it was some metal rod that jammed the front wheel? Very strange. Full details on his webpage above.
PS at least no fears of "jaming/siezed" engine
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halvefast
Zone Head
Posts: 806
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posted September 25, 2006 03:36 PM
Edited By: halvefast on 25 Sep 2006 16:37
Here lies the cause of the accident, I thought the fender looked out of place.
http://www.homegrownmedia.net/
Watch out for all the trash on our highways!
____________
Texas Mile 200.256mph - Oct. 2007 (Update 202.577mph Oct 2008) NOS assisted
ECTA Ohio Mile 195.132mph
TexasMile 2012 199.9 mph all motor!
Streetriders Shootout 2008 series Pro/ET Champ!
Streetriders Shootout 2007 Series Pro/ET Runner-up!
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shawnski
Pro
Posts: 1809
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posted September 25, 2006 03:51 PM
thanks for info. i guess when accident wants to happen there is not much you can do about it.
that is total bad luck.
____________
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blitzkrieg
Needs a job
Road kill = Free lunch.
Posts: 2044
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posted September 25, 2006 04:52 PM
Edited By: blitzkrieg on 25 Sep 2006 17:54
Thats a little more on par with what I figured.
Again, my sympathies go out to any unlucky rider that has this road debris type of encounter happen. It sucks for sure. 
Just keep in mind that an ABS fender is not necessarily going to "shatter" and release the debris. If the debris goes through your spokes,
you are screwed, glued and tattooed,
If it wedges between the fender, the tire and is as wide or wider than your fork tubes, again you are screwed... The physics of something like
a road alligator getting wedged between your fender and tire are going to pull the debris down and toward the front of the bike.
Not a good situation.
We had a good local man die here about a year ago not far from my house.
Out for a leisurely Saturday morning ride, hit a road alligator at 50 and his Harley spun his helmetless skull into the pavement
with a force that can barely be imagined. Sad.
My understanding is the bike barely left a skid mark with the front wheel.
Road alligators here are a real problem. Semi's can run retreads on all wheels except the steering wheels and these fuckers fly
apart all the time. It's a rare occasion that I have seen a trucker stopped picking this shit up off the road before it potentially kills
somebody. Sad but true. 
____________
"BTW....You need to get a girlfriend who's last name isn't .jpg"
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