14black
Expert Class
Posts: 280
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posted July 27, 2006 06:04 AM
How many have had problems with carbon fiber pipes?
I had a Yosh carbon pipe on my FZ1 and had zero problems (never on a dyno), but it seems like some of you have had troubles with them in the past. From what I'm reading, c/f pipes should never by dynoed??? I was looking to get Yoshi tri-oval carbon slips with carbon end-caps, but now I'm hesitant.
All Yosh ZX14 systems are now available, btw, according to Lauren in Yosh Sales. The ridiculous thing is, Lauren told me the marketing dept. would not be posting pics of their carbon pipes on their website! How dumb is that?!
  
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Megabyte
Pro
Posts: 1047
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posted July 27, 2006 08:01 AM
I've had my acro CF canister on my 2k zx12 for nearly 6 years w/o any problems, even after many dyno runs.
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We First make our habits and then our habits make us.
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chunter
Expert Class
Posts: 195
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posted July 27, 2006 08:36 AM
The problems I have seen have been when a bike is put thru a tuning link mapping session by a less than experienced dyno operator. Result is too much heat created with minimal air flow on the canister causes a large percentage of failures. In addition to manus who use real thin carbon fiber to reduce weight.
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cls
Expert Class
Posts: 410
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posted July 27, 2006 09:24 AM
I'm not a CF fan, but Two Brothers said it was predominantly w/the big, high performance twins that problems were typically seen. "Power pulses" was quoted as the culprit, if memory serves.
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14black
Expert Class
Posts: 280
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posted July 27, 2006 10:22 AM
Which pipes dissipate heat the best? Carbon, TI, or AL???
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flatoutbu
Pro
Posts: 1054
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posted July 27, 2006 12:31 PM
my bike with brocks c/f can went thru a dyno session and didnt have any problems. It had a fan blowing on it the whole time and everything was fine.
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06 Blue 14
9.008 at 153mph @ 195 suited
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TJ
Zone Head
Posts: 604
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posted July 27, 2006 04:50 PM
I did approx. 30K miles with a Muzzy CF can on a ZX-7. Plenty of dyno runs and many, many mile were are 10K RPMs +/-. The can was starting to look dry and a little brittle towards the end but never had any problems.
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k bryant
Needs a job
Sponsor
Posts: 2911
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posted July 27, 2006 05:24 PM
Many good answers here. Basically, the issues can be many. Carbon Fiber itself does not have to be less reliable or lasting. We do hundreds of Dyno sessions with our carbon fiber mufflers with zero failures or issues. Dyno operators without proper cool down and/or fans can cause damage. Using a cheaper fiberglass/carbon mix. Using a lower temp resin/shell to save money. Using too thin of material. Using a restrictive core. Using cheap core packing material. Not packing the core/assembling properly. There are more....
Carbon Fiber will definetly be the coolest to the touch.
Yes, twins, especially the RC51 in particular can play havoc on CF muffler shells.
Somewhat of a slight misconception is if it changes color slightly, it has failed. It does not necessarily mean it will fail. When you start to see blistering type issues, normally on the backside (minimal air flow) of the of the inlet cap and/or outlet cap area, which is where it will almost always be the hottest, this is when you may see a true failure. Many times the heat build-up can be simply related to the fact that the caps are obviously in direct contact with the composite. Whereas the core is technically "floating" and has the air gap/insulation. There are steps you can take to help insulate this area as well.
Good quality carbon fiber shells are nothing to be afraid of purchasing. Take care of maintaining them (packing), keep them resonably clean and waxed/uv protected, they will last a very long time.
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blitzkrieg
Needs a job
Road kill = Free lunch.
Posts: 2044
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posted July 27, 2006 07:08 PM
quote:
Using too thin of material. Using a restrictive core. Using cheap core packing material. Not packing the core/assembling properly. There are more....
.
Great advice all from KB above, but the sentence above probably covers 90% of premature CF Can failures.
Packing blows out, compresses, packs down, etc.. over time.
No maintenance (repacking every 15K or so miles) and you will degrade the CF can.
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"BTW....You need to get a girlfriend who's last name isn't .jpg"
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zxlnt
Needs a job
Kawpuke Extraordinare
Posts: 2853
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posted July 28, 2006 02:52 PM
The best thing you can do for your carbon fiber can is keep it well packed. That keeps the hot exhaust gases from being directly against the inside of the carbon fiber. I've had my muzzy carbon fiber can on my ZX12R for 6 years now without problem. Re-packed it once when I had it apart to fix a rub hole from my swingarm spool from being lowered down so far...
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Vegasdude
Zone Head
Posts: 821
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posted July 28, 2006 02:57 PM
I have had two of Brock's CF pipes......................no issues......................and plenty of dyno time for both.........
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Nukedog
Expert Class
Posts: 449
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posted July 28, 2006 04:29 PM
I have a HMF Bigbird Carbon on the Busa and a Yosh Carbon on the SV1000S - no issues at all...
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02 Busa...Turbo...
09 YZF-R6S...
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Squareman357
Expert Class
Posts: 148
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posted July 30, 2006 07:11 AM
One thing I noticed about my new Two Brothers Carbon Fiber pipes is that they DO NOT hold heat. You can have a 3 to 5 second lingering touch on them nearly as soon as I shut the engine off. A few minutes after that and they are barely warm and you can hold on as long as you want. Touching the stockers after I just shut the bike off was just ASKING for skin to burn off. I love my new pipes.
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