chiapet12
Parking Attendant
Posts: 30
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posted July 16, 2006 11:39 AM
Muzzy Exhaust
Hey guys I have a muzzy system for the 14 and something is bothering me greatly.
The system has a 2.25 inch mid pipe going down to a 2 inch mid pipe where it joins into the collector, I also have a Zx12r with a muzzy pipe that has a full 2.25 inch pipe that is not stepped down two 2.0 inches. Now my guess is that muzzy tried to compensate for the lack of low end by making this pipe step down to 2.0 inches to compensate for the secondary flies. What i am trying to get at is if i remove the secondary flies would i not be better off with a pipe that is the full 2.25 inch diameter? that way i would have all kinds of low ent torque with substantial upper end horsepower? Also does anybody have a zx12r muzzy mid pipe they would like to sell so i can modify this pipe? any comments greatly appreciated.
Just trying to get the maximum thrust LOL (seriously this is driving me crazy) .
  
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iflyphi
Zone Head
Posts: 542
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posted July 16, 2006 11:46 AM
Have you thought of e-mailing or sending Rob Muzzy a PM?? I'd be kinda curious too
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chiapet12
Parking Attendant
Posts: 30
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posted July 16, 2006 12:03 PM
Also noted is that the brock system is getting a consistent 10 horse more than the muzzy.
Can anybody confirm that the brock system is the full 2.25 inch midpipe with no step down to 2.0 inch? next problem i really like the muzzy can (titanium) does anybody know if it would fit on a brock header setup? Need some help (1) do i install the system and be happy? (2)do i moddify the mid pipe and be happy (3) do i send the system back but keep the can, and buy a brock header? (4) will muzzy make me a custom pipe that doesnt cost me my first born? LOL can you guys tell im a little distressed?
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chiapet12
Parking Attendant
Posts: 30
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posted July 16, 2006 12:04 PM
I have not contacted muzzys for the simple reason kirt or doug are very ignorant to talk to.
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CrotchRocket
Moderator
Bracket Racing with Betsy
Posts: 8038
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posted July 16, 2006 12:13 PM
You guys are killing me 
Dont you think Rob Muzzy wants to have the most power available from the pipe he made that will carry his name on it ???...Sheesh...
Who cares how he did it as long as his pipe puts the most power available to the wheel !!!
Every pipe has different HorsePower usually within + - 5 hp of each other at different places in the power band...Which is better, well that is your choice...The rider plays a big part, so dont drive yourself crazy over pipes!!!...Just buy the one that you like and works with what you need!!!
____________
Jason Miller StreetBike Seminars
*****DragRacers do it better, because they dont cut Corners*****
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chiapet12
Parking Attendant
Posts: 30
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posted July 16, 2006 12:47 PM
I do realize that muzzy built a good pipe, my concern is that he made it for low end torque due to the fact that the sub throttle bodys are limiting the torque output ,so he made the pipe to compensate for low end. My Idea is that if i remove the subthrottle body plates i would benefit from a pipe that was built more fore the higher end horsepower.
Thanks for the reply crotchrocket i really dont know why this is bugging me so much though!
I do rmember when hindle first came out with a pipe for the 12 and it was a 2inch system ,all i could think of then, there is no way a 1200 has the same flow requirements that a 600 has (all pipes where 2 inches) then he came out with the gen 2 system that used
2.25 inch pipe and people were getting much better results.
OMG lol I am going Crazy wooo woooo weeee im off the wall lossing it
can someone please come by and slap me . JK
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DR Yosh
Parking Attendant
Posts: 18
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posted July 17, 2006 04:13 PM
Maybe you should a Yoshimura pipe,with ems 12bhp down low and 10.56bhp up top ...I know this because I built it....By chance you may think I hate muzzy,I have a muzzy on my ZXR7RR(1993 AND 1996 MODEL) AND THEY WORK GREAT ...
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k bryant
Needs a job
Sponsor
Posts: 2911
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posted July 17, 2006 04:41 PM
Though many applications show improvement with larger mid-pipes, it isn't necessarily a guarenteed improvement all across the board. When I was involved in the Honda Superbike exhaust program on the CBR1000 for America and Australia, we had many systems with smallish mid-pipes in the 1.875" - 2.125" area. These were on motors making in the 190hp + area.... Exhaust theory and application is all about give and take. You may want to reconsider and contact Muzzy. Nobody should know better than them as to the reasoning/design of their product. 
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fastestbusaaround
Needs a life
I eat Fish...
Posts: 7889
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posted July 17, 2006 04:52 PM
quote:
Maybe you should a Yoshimura pipe,with ems 12bhp down low and 10.56bhp up top ...I know this because I built it....By chance you may think I hate muzzy,I have a muzzy on my ZXR7RR(1993 AND 1996 MODEL) AND THEY WORK GREAT ...
Excuse me??? You're the one who builds Yosh pipes...can we please see some credentials? Thats a pretty bold statement, so backup would help add some credibility to your statement...otherwise just I'll take this as some dickhead spamming our boards...no disrespect intended, if you are who you say you are.
____________
FYYFF!!!
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3Boysand3Bikes
Expert Class
Posts: 382
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posted July 17, 2006 05:37 PM
Dr YOSH said...
DR Yosh
Parking Attendant
Posts: 5
posted July 17, 2006 05:13 PM
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Maybe you should a Yoshimura pipe,with ems 12bhp down low and 10.56bhp up top ...I know this because I built it....By chance you may think I hate muzzy,I have a muzzy on my ZXR7RR(1993 AND 1996 MODEL) AND THEY WORK GREAT ...
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If you are building and engineering pipes... all of your brain power is getting used there... because I have read a couple of your posts... and my friend... I feel that you failed English class... and I am not talking about the college courses!!!
In what State do you build Yosh cans??
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TJ
Zone Head
Posts: 604
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posted July 17, 2006 06:06 PM
quote:
Hey guys I have a muzzy system for the 14 and something is bothering me greatly.
The system has a 2.25 inch mid pipe going down to a 2 inch mid pipe where it joins into the collector, I also have a Zx12r with a muzzy pipe that has a full 2.25 inch pipe that is not stepped down two 2.0 inches. Now my guess is that muzzy tried to compensate for the lack of low end by making this pipe step down to 2.0 inches to compensate for the secondary flies. What i am trying to get at is if i remove the secondary flies would i not be better off with a pipe that is the full 2.25 inch diameter? that way i would have all kinds of low ent torque with substantial upper end horsepower? Also does anybody have a zx12r muzzy mid pipe they would like to sell so i can modify this pipe? any comments greatly appreciated.
Just trying to get the maximum thrust LOL (seriously this is driving me crazy) .
Unless you know more about exhaust design then a racing legend, I would just trust them and go with their design. If you don't know what you are doing (looks to be the case), you would probably do more harm than good. Just my 2 cents...
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zxlnt
Needs a job
Kawpuke Extraordinare
Posts: 2853
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posted July 17, 2006 09:21 PM
Dr Yosh? Since when the did EMS fit a ZX-14???
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3Boysand3Bikes
Expert Class
Posts: 382
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posted July 17, 2006 09:26 PM
quote:
Dr Yosh? Since when the did EMS fit a ZX-14???
C'mon zx... that is easy.... since he RE-designed it!!! You will see a lot of changes out of Yoshi now that the Dr. is IN!!
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vegasdude
Zone Head
Posts: 821
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posted July 17, 2006 09:40 PM
Where's tostado when you need him.........................
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dougmeyer
Needs a job
moderated
Posts: 2713
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posted July 17, 2006 09:43 PM
 Edited By: dougmeyer on 17 Jul 2006 23:01
Hey chiapet- who you callin' ignorant?
Anyway- do a little research on "area under the curve". You have a great deal to learn.
"Consistently making TEN (???) more horsepower" It's only tubing , my friend. It doesn't CREATE power, it only lets out the power that the engine is already capable of producing and no two of the good headers out there are that different. Once you let out that 15 or so that is lurking behind the muffler, there's no more to be had, you can just move it around a little bit.
Think this through- if the secondary butterflies are restricting airflow into the engine to keep some squid from highsiding himself into oblivion, what good would it do to DECREASE the exhaust flow to try and compensate for that. Mapping is done at W.O.T. and R&D efforts are directed at maximum torque at all rpms under that condition.
It is quite possible that, with a great deal of dyno time, a pipe would be developed that might be a better "race" pipe for the 14. You might remember that Rob did just that for the 12. Those pipes were very carefully crafted to put out just a couple more HP on the top and they are expensive to build. I think that about 10% of the people who said they wanted such a thing actually bought one. It did allow for max power above 10,000, but cost power down low. A waste of time and money I think.
Just learn to ride the damn thng as well as oh, Rickey or Brock and then go looking for that 1 or 2 extra.
Doug
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Shane661
Needs a life
Posts: 11494
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posted July 18, 2006 08:18 AM
Also, the ZX-12 pipe runs like pure crap below 3k. I would trade a few hp to rectify that...
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dubious
Needs a life
Needs more time to ride!
Posts: 8442
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posted July 18, 2006 09:00 AM
Well, with all due respect.
Doug, I must say that my phone experience with the sales staff at Muzzy left alot to be desired.
They were less than curteous, helpfull, or polite.
Maybe rude, would be more suitable description than ignorant.
I did not have any unreasonable questions, and even if I did....
attempting to dumb down the customer is not good for business.
____________
natural selection.....
destiny will overcome intervention.
Some are not worthy of the effort.
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chiapet12
Parking Attendant
Posts: 30
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posted July 18, 2006 11:25 AM
Well my apologies doug maybe i could have worded my experiences wih the phone staff a little differently . I do beleive that dubious stated his experiences with phone staff on par with mine and well said.
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fastestbusaaround
Needs a life
I eat Fish...
Posts: 7889
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posted July 18, 2006 11:26 AM
I had the exact same issue when i called...
____________
FYYFF!!!
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Bently
Needs a life
2012 14r In Blue and no Mods!
Posts: 5428
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posted July 18, 2006 12:06 PM
Well my phone call went just like the ones stated above.
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zxlnt
Needs a job
Kawpuke Extraordinare
Posts: 2853
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posted July 18, 2006 12:27 PM
I guarantee you weren't talking to Doug. Kurt Dorn probably..
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dubious
Needs a life
Needs more time to ride!
Posts: 8442
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posted July 18, 2006 01:01 PM
Edited By: dubious on 18 Jul 2006 14:09
I can't remember whom it was I spoke with.
Just remember the impression I was left with.
Its a shame really.
Rob dedicates all these years , long hours and hard work.......
____________
natural selection.....
destiny will overcome intervention.
Some are not worthy of the effort.
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dougmeyer
Needs a job
moderated
Posts: 2713
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posted July 18, 2006 02:29 PM
OK, here's the deal. Maybe you didn't get the memo. I have not worked at Muzzys since March 2005, when I resigned and subsequently joined Columbia Aircraft. I continue to be a friend of Rob's, and I think we enjoy a mutual respect, but I have no input as to his business or employees.
Shane661,
There is no reason for your bike to run anything but perfectly. Mine (a 2000) runs "like it has carburetors". No flat spot, no hunt, excellent top end power. If you call Muzzys and ask for the best map for that setup I'm sure they will be happy to send it to you. It's all in the mapping.
Doug
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dubious
Needs a life
Needs more time to ride!
Posts: 8442
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posted July 18, 2006 10:40 PM
Edited By: dubious on 18 Jul 2006 23:42
Good that you clarify the time frame Doug.
The person i spoke with at Muzzy's was in April 2006.
Nice piece on the Muzzy N2O ZX-14 BTW. 
and I do like Muzzy products...
The exhaust on my Brute Force (avitar) is a work of art, great workmanship, and straightforward bolt on!
____________
natural selection.....
destiny will overcome intervention.
Some are not worthy of the effort.
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Shane661
Needs a life
Posts: 11494
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posted July 19, 2006 12:59 AM
Doug,
That absolutely amazes me. I have been on the Zx-12.org site for a couple of years. Nobody can get the flat spot tuned out. It is like a light switch between 2.5-3k rpm. I mean, it is "common knowledge" on the board that this is a quirk of the pipe.
Is your pipe a pre-production pipe by any chance?
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