earl b
Parking Attendant
Posts: 17
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posted June 27, 2006 07:22 PM
Thanks again for all of your time and effort, and tell the wife thanks also!
  
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zx1kr
Pro
Posts: 1301
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posted June 27, 2006 07:42 PM
Just got back, Tuned the 14 quite extensively this evening & basically what I found was a lean spot at 3500 that just didn't want to go away w/o throwing ALOT of fuel at it. I had to ADD a substantial amount of fuel over a large area. The final result was no additional Peak HP or TQ actually a touch less but, that's OK actually feels stronger on the road! Picked up a few ft/lb of TQ & HP in the middle & down low.There were a few dips on my Dyno sheet for the "No Flies Quicky Map" that I could not improve. I could move them up & down the powerband but, not bring them up powerwise. The bike does seem alittle more tempermental(read-violent accelleration) down low now that AFR is what I would consider optimized.There is not an easy fix for the "No Flies" Map. I personally would recommend that anyone who pulls the flies to seek out an experienced tuner who will keep you from getting yourself into a jam. YOU CANNOT GET EVEN CLOSE w/o tuning this set-up. Take it for what it's worth. Unless something comes along like a closed loop fuel injection set-up similar to what I've used on some Radical HD's.
In closing I just want to say that the Bike is an absolute Rocket! I'am happy w/ the performance.
Though it is not for the faint of heart or the novice!
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zx1kr
Pro
Posts: 1301
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posted June 27, 2006 07:44 PM
quote:
I am running the map you sent, and I believe it is a little rich, the pipes are a little sooty, but otherwise it is pretty good. If you come up with an improved version, I would like to try it also. I will be taking it to a tuning center, but it will probably be toward the end of July before I can get it done. And thanks, I really appriceate the what you are doing....TB
What is the set-up you have? i.e. pipes? slip-on's? Muzzy, Hindle?
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dubious
Needs a life
Needs more time to ride!
Posts: 8442
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posted June 27, 2006 09:27 PM
quote:
Just got back, Tuned the 14 quite extensively this evening & basically what I found was a lean spot at 3500 that just didn't want to go away w/o throwing ALOT of fuel at it. I had to ADD a substantial amount of fuel over a large area. The final result was no additional Peak HP or TQ actually a touch less but, that's OK actually feels stronger on the road! Picked up a few ft/lb of TQ & HP in the middle & down low.There were a few dips on my Dyno sheet for the "No Flies Quicky Map" that I could not improve. I could move them up & down the powerband but, not bring them up powerwise. The bike does seem alittle more tempermental(read-violent accelleration) down low now that AFR is what I would consider optimized.There is not an easy fix for the "No Flies" Map. I personally would recommend that anyone who pulls the flies to seek out an experienced tuner who will keep you from getting yourself into a jam. YOU CANNOT GET EVEN CLOSE w/o tuning this set-up. Take it for what it's worth. Unless something comes along like a closed loop fuel injection set-up similar to what I've used on some Radical HD's.
In closing I just want to say that the Bike is an absolute Rocket! I'am happy w/ the performance.
Though it is not for the faint of heart or the novice!
+1
exactly my opinion !
Its totally transformed !
Whole different animal !
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natural selection.....
destiny will overcome intervention.
Some are not worthy of the effort.
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zx1kr
Pro
Posts: 1301
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posted June 27, 2006 09:32 PM
Animal being the Key word! I Love it! I didn't buy it to sport tour! I bought it to have a Gun when I get into a knife fight!
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dubious
Needs a life
Needs more time to ride!
Posts: 8442
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posted June 27, 2006 09:49 PM
10-4.
Every time I climb off the bike, i'm in awe and exhilarated!
I haven't been so stoked .... well....since I used to race motocross!
LOL... 35 yrs old and yelling like a 14yr old hooligan inside the helmet. LOL 
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natural selection.....
destiny will overcome intervention.
Some are not worthy of the effort.
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zxlnt
Needs a job
Kawpuke Extraordinare
Posts: 2853
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posted June 27, 2006 11:56 PM
quote:
Just got back, Tuned the 14 quite extensively this evening & basically what I found was a lean spot at 3500 that just didn't want to go away w/o throwing ALOT of fuel at it. I had to ADD a substantial amount of fuel over a large area.
Thats something we noticed as well when tuning my bike (stock exhaust and secondaries in) that low end lean spot didn't seem to want to go away....
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MasterBlaster
Expert Class
Posts: 297
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posted June 28, 2006 06:30 AM
quote:
quote:
I am running the map you sent, and I believe it is a little rich, the pipes are a little sooty, but otherwise it is pretty good. If you come up with an improved version, I would like to try it also. I will be taking it to a tuning center, but it will probably be toward the end of July before I can get it done. And thanks, I really appriceate the what you are doing....TB
What is the set-up you have? i.e. pipes? slip-on's? Muzzy, Hindle?
My setup is el cheapo. I bandsawed the stock cans off and slapped on a set of D&D slipons I had from a Busa using the stock headers and mid pipe. Looks and sounds great, I know its not the optimum setup, but I like the look of the dual cans. Maybe down the road I will get the Brock street Meg, but for now this what I have.
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zx1kr
Pro
Posts: 1301
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posted June 28, 2006 09:56 AM
The set-up I e-mailed you is probably not even close to right for your app., after doing a thourough tune on this bike I can only recommend getting the bike custom mapped by a qualified Dyno Tech. Trust me on this!
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Flatoutbu
Pro
Posts: 1054
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posted June 28, 2006 10:28 AM
Mine goes to schnitz on the 8th of next month. I'm just alittle worried about running it until then. I have the full gen 3 with pc3 and flies out with the map supplied from brock. It looks like it's running rich, i started it yesterday and reved it up alittle and it shot a fireball out the tailpipe. Do i have anything to worry about?
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06 Blue 14
9.008 at 153mph @ 195 suited
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famous1
Expert Class
Posts: 402
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posted June 28, 2006 11:01 AM
quote:
quote:
quote:
I am running the map you sent, and I believe it is a little rich, the pipes are a little sooty, but otherwise it is pretty good. If you come up with an improved version, I would like to try it also. I will be taking it to a tuning center, but it will probably be toward the end of July before I can get it done. And thanks, I really appriceate the what you are doing....TB
What is the set-up you have? i.e. pipes? slip-on's? Muzzy, Hindle?
My setup is el cheapo. I bandsawed the stock cans off and slapped on a set of D&D slipons I had from a Busa using the stock headers and mid pipe. Looks and sounds great, I know its not the optimum setup, but I like the look of the dual cans. Maybe down the road I will get the Brock street Meg, but for now this what I have.
looking good master blaster.....
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dubious
Needs a life
Needs more time to ride!
Posts: 8442
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posted June 28, 2006 03:32 PM
quote:
Mine goes to schnitz on the 8th of next month. I'm just alittle worried about running it until then. I have the full gen 3 with pc3 and flies out with the map supplied from brock. It looks like it's running rich, i started it yesterday and reved it up alittle and it shot a fireball out the tailpipe. Do i have anything to worry about?
Are you using the track map nosec? its way richer than the streetmap.
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natural selection.....
destiny will overcome intervention.
Some are not worthy of the effort.
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zx1kr
Pro
Posts: 1301
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posted June 28, 2006 04:29 PM
Are you using the track map nosec? its way richer than the streetmap.
Dubbie, There is not a whole lot of diff between the 2 maps. the track map is alittle richer a 0% TP for about 750 rpms & at Full throttle it's marginally richer everywhere else its the same.
Now, as I've said before this "NO FLIES" issue is so touchy as far as AFR I HIGHLY RECOMMEND that those that choose this route for a mod should shell out $300 or so to the best local Dyno Tuner they know of & get their bike custom mapped.
Just an example: When I did the "quicky map" for the NO FLIES issue. I used the Track map from Brock as a base. At Full throttle I was lean & had to add fuel approx. 6 to 8%. Now that was a map set up for peak HP w/o an air cleaner in place. One would think that it wouldve been on the rich side. NOT! Now, Brock's map w/o question performs exactly as advertised in the situation that the map was created & maps for this Bike that were created w/the flies in will get you great performance.
Just too many variables w/ the NO FLIES situation.
This type of issue(lean for one bike & rich for another) is usually chalked up to elevation. Due to me being very close to sea level my maps will need to be richer than say someone at 1500' above sea level. These FI systems aren't closed loop variety. They dont self correct for shit as opposed to FI w/ an O2 sensor in the pipe. This is one major reason a custom map is in my opinion the ONLY way to go w/ this mod. As I said when I posted the Quicky Map in the beginning of this thread. This is not the cure for the issue just a temp fix for the time being until you can get your bike Dynoed.
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Ojref
Expert Class
Posts: 336
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posted June 28, 2006 04:38 PM
quote:
This type of issue(lean for one bike & rich for another) is usually chalked up to elevation. Due to me being very close to sea level my maps will need to be richer than say someone at 1500' above sea level. These FI systems aren't closed loop variety. They dont self correct for shit as opposed to FI w/ an O2 sensor in the pipe. This is one major reason a custom map is in my opinion the ONLY way to go w/ this mod. As I said when I posted the Quicky Map in the beginning of this thread. This is not the cure for the issue just a temp fix for the time being until you can get your bike Dynoed.
I'm VERY dissapointed that Kawasaki didn't use an O2 sensor in this bike. I mean, it's really total bullshit. What we have is a staticly mapped system that appears to only adjust itself using input from a IAT and a MAP sensor. I haven't noticed a knock sensor, has anybody else seen one?
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2006 Kawasaki ZX-14 Ninja, Red now with mo' Brock's in my lyfe
1991 Yamaha Vmax - Because I need a mule to carry the manhood
2002 Ford Lightning - Ford GT Aluminum block engined, 802HP 911TQ now WhippleCharged
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swft
Needs a life
Full throttle!
Posts: One MEEEEEELLION
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posted June 28, 2006 04:46 PM
Jesus, get over it. There's no economical real-time 02 sensor that can keep up with the RAPID changes that a modern four cylinder motorcycle engine and undergo. That's why you see 02 sensors on harlies, gold wings and little else. And same thing for a knock sensor. I don't know, maybe you are right and th bike's a piece of shit. I'll give ya $20 for yours, cool?
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zx1kr
Pro
Posts: 1301
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posted June 28, 2006 04:47 PM
Dude, you are kidding right?
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Flatoutbu
Pro
Posts: 1054
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posted June 29, 2006 07:10 AM
Ok, so rich i can handle...the lean condition i was alitlle worried about. We got rained out last night at the track (drove a hour to get there and rained a mile from the track) so i was going to take a chance and run it the way it was. Of course the bike spends most of it's time at WOT at the track so i wasnt too worried.
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06 Blue 14
9.008 at 153mph @ 195 suited
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zx1kr
Pro
Posts: 1301
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posted June 30, 2006 03:27 PM
I got a chance to overlap the maps from the first quick tune w/NO FLIES to the Complete tune I did a few days ago. The TQ #'s increased about 4 to 5% same for the HP #'s up to about 7k rpms. I'm pushing 87 lb/ft of TQ at 3700 rpms as opposed to 65 lb/ft stock. There still might be alittle more to be had thru the fuel map but I think that ignition timing is going to hold more. Can't wait to see what comes forward tonite from Fish & the Big news.
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dougmeyer
Needs a job
moderated
Posts: 2713
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posted June 30, 2006 03:43 PM
Just a hint to those messing with low end stumbles- Don't ignore the effect localized timig changes can have on this. You might try experimenting a little with timing at the offending map coordinates.
Doug
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zxlnt
Needs a job
Kawpuke Extraordinare
Posts: 2853
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posted June 30, 2006 06:45 PM
Only a morsel huh Doug. 
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zx1kr
Pro
Posts: 1301
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posted June 30, 2006 07:17 PM
Doug give me a little more. Is there another product that you believe in, that can adjust timing curves Give me names & #'s. I do not plan on putting the Flies back in. I planned on waiting for DJ's Ignition Module.
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zx1kr
Pro
Posts: 1301
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posted July 04, 2006 10:52 AM
Was at the shop this morning w/ the intent of tuning the ZX10 w/no flies. Unfortunately that did not happen. What I ended up doing was I met up w/ another ZX14 owner & on the way to the shop, we did the same 4th Gr. roll-ons I had done w/ the busa the night before. The other 14 had 1 tooth up in the rear & no flies, streetmeg exh. No air cleaner & a modded map in the pc.
Well, long story short, I got walked on! We went to the dyno & his map was pretty close to optimum & his peak hp was the same as on my bike. But, his map parameters were significantly leaner than what my map was in a considerable amount of fuel cells.
My suspicions before I put my bike up were starting to become real as I thought to myself, could I have had a leak in the O2 sniffer's line when I tuned my 14? It had broken while tuning the next bike after the 14 & I had to replace it.
Sure enough! My 14 was up on the dyno & was good AFR until it swept past 3000 rpm's then it dropped into the mid 12's (too rich!) .
Well, I uploaded a new map & it dialed in much closer to optimum & picked up 2 to 5 HP thruout the range.Peak HP remained the same.
I mentioned that I had to add a significant amount of fuel to my 1st "quicky Map" for the "no Flies" well this was why. This was also the reason I chose not to send the last map I tuned simply because I wanted to double check it. I wasn't comfortable w/ it & therefore would not allow someone else to use it.
All is good now, we left the shop & did the same roll-on & it was neck to neck till near redline where he pulled ahead by a 1/2 to 1 bike.
One more note: With 1 tooth up & No speedohealer the bike signed off in 6th gr. at 10K & 177 mph. Probably pull 185 to 190 w/ SH installed.
The stock geared 14(mine) in 6th gear w/ speedohealer tripped the198mph max tire speed shut-off
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