zx1kr
Pro
Posts: 1301
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posted June 24, 2006 04:46 PM
Call me on tuesday, we be closed on Mondays.
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tru195
Novice Class
Posts: 64
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posted June 24, 2006 05:37 PM
i pulled the flies and is the most noticable, quickest and free thing possible, ever. yes for some its a bit to responsive almost sensitive. not for the sport tour guy or the once in a blue moon corner guy. it takes alittle time and practice to get used to in tight corners especially if you dont carry corner speed and rely on an early whack to get you back with the pack before you straighten up. but as i stated earlier it is the biggest change next to a big bore kit you will ever feel seat of the pants. but kawi built this bike to launch and take the quickest bike title since the top end title out the box is history. they did just that. 1/4 mile out of the box for 99% of people this is the bike! they didnt build it for a roll on race with the busa which i had 2. they wanted a title and got it. a powerful easy to launch machine. pull the flies and you will lose to most other bikes with good riders in a drag race but for 2nd gear roll ons or sunrise high way, parkway or expressway running it wont get beat with the mod. just my opinion.
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zx1kr
Pro
Posts: 1301
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posted June 24, 2006 05:44 PM
You live on L.I. I take it?
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tru195
Novice Class
Posts: 64
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posted June 24, 2006 06:05 PM
i,m i m ing ya. center moriches. sunday morning riverhead diner for 10 years. william floyyd north end runs, route 51 top ends, south hampton bonzi runs.
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zx1kr
Pro
Posts: 1301
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posted June 24, 2006 06:24 PM
Rocky Point area here. Done them too. You go up thru Port Jeff at all? I go up that way pretty regular, shoot the shit & check out the pretty females! When your in the area stop past the shop.
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jw
Novice Class
Posts: 81
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posted June 24, 2006 09:21 PM
quote:
That would be worse as it would create turbelence in the airstream. It's better to either remove them or to fine tune the programming to have them open at an earlier time.
A turbulent airstream at low rpms and low airflow helps fuel mixing. One of the problems of removing the secondary plates (theorectically) is on sudden rapid throttle openings, the air flow actually slows so much that proper fuel atomization can't occur. That's part of the reason older FI models bog then lurch with rapid throttle changes.
It's strange how differently people are viewing this throttle plate issue. How can one person say that it will RUIN drivability and someone else say it's the best mod for street use ever?
It kinda reminds me of my Muzzy pipe. Loved the extra hp and the sound initially. After a couple hours, the noise got a little annoying. After a couple weeks, I wish I had a quieter exhuast. I wonder if it's just the novelty of all that new torque that people like. What happens after a month or more. Will you wish you had the plates back?
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zxlnt
Needs a job
Kawpuke Extraordinare
Posts: 2853
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posted June 24, 2006 10:24 PM
i wonder if simplay machining the diameter down on the throttle plates would be a compromise. Chuck them up in a lathe and take several millimters off the outside diameter. Less restrictive but not soo free flowing as to be a handfull when trying to launch the thing.....
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zx1kr
Pro
Posts: 1301
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posted June 25, 2006 08:24 AM
I'll be honest w/ you there is nothing unusual about the "Flies Out" power delivery that an experienced M/C should have any probs w/ I think this issue is being exaggerated for reasons I'm not quite sure of right now. I've had a bunch of bikes that were a whole lot more of a handful to launch than the 14 w/"Flies Out"!
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zx1kr
Pro
Posts: 1301
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posted June 25, 2006 11:41 AM
Who has ran the "No Flies" Map on their 14 yet? I know all the locals in the northeast aren't running anything but an umbrella these last couple of days.
Post your opinions & what you have on the 14 i.e Smeg,muzzy,D & D etc.
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zx1kr
Pro
Posts: 1301
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posted June 25, 2006 02:33 PM
Well, just got back in, I figured it looked like the rain was letting up. So, I walk outside & it starts drizzling. My plan was to shoot up to the shop get the 14 on the dyno & give the "NO FLIES" map a complete & thorough tune. Well I jumped in the car (still drizzling!) & grabbed a siffon hose from the auto parts store & sucked the U4E outta the 14's tank & threw some 93 pump in it. Ok, now the rain is coming down good. FUCK! I figured a nice quiet sunday afternoon I could take my time & get this thing REAL SWEET ! Not today, I'am also planning on making another map that will soften the power alittle on the bottom w/no flies. No gaurantees on that one. But, w/ all the hoopla about how the 14 is TOO Powerful down low w/ no flies, I will try to accomodate those that are of that opinion.
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jw
Novice Class
Posts: 81
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posted June 25, 2006 06:02 PM
I wouldn't say it's too much torque that's the problem. I was wondering if there's a severe on/off throttle abruptness that makes cruising around town like riding a bucking bronco (Not that I would know what that was like). Fun at first, but may be annoying after a while. Or, such severe air/fuel problems that the bike may bog or engine may stall (as Brock was saying).
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Nukedog
Expert Class
Posts: 449
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posted June 25, 2006 06:43 PM
Very good hp/tq for the amount of mods. Good strong bikes you have...
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02 Busa...Turbo...
09 YZF-R6S...
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fastestbusaaround
Needs a life
I eat Fish...
Posts: 7889
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posted June 25, 2006 06:50 PM
quote:
I wouldn't say it's too much torque that's the problem. I was wondering if there's a severe on/off throttle abruptness that makes cruising around town like riding a bucking bronco (Not that I would know what that was like). Fun at first, but may be annoying after a while. Or, such severe air/fuel problems that the bike may bog or engine may stall (as Brock was saying).
Not at all...throttle reaponse is instant but, no low speed jerks. Just don't be snapping open/close...it will lift fast and rip yer arms off! :d
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FYYFF!!!
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zx1kr
Pro
Posts: 1301
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posted June 25, 2006 06:53 PM
quote:
I wouldn't say it's too much torque that's the problem. I was wondering if there's a severe on/off throttle abruptness that makes cruising around town like riding a bucking bronco (Not that I would know what that was like). Fun at first, but may be annoying after a while. Or, such severe air/fuel problems that the bike may bog or engine may stall (as Brock was saying).
Well, I didn't ride the bike w/o first putting it up on the dyno & correcting said AFR.
So, as far as that issue I wouldn't know what it was doing w/o proper tuning. That was the whole point of creating a "NO Flies" map. To Fix the problem!!!
Anyway, I have conversed w/ Brock & he has some "NO FLIES" maps for the Streetmeg system. I'm sure they will be of the same quality as his components. "Top Notch"
I myself have installed one in my 14 just about an hour ago.
I took it out for a test ride & STRONG would be an understatement, I did notice alittle less MPG than I was getting w/ the mapping I was using. This is nothing unusual though , as I have said in the past "an actual custom tune by a qualified tech on your individual bike is the best option" but few will need to do this w/ a good "canned" map.
Brock's maps should be available as we speak exclusively through his "MAP SUPPORT" for Smeg & Streetsmart owners!
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jnybbad
Novice Class
Posts: 79
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posted June 25, 2006 07:18 PM
map request!!
Can I get a copy of the map you guys are using for the secondary valve removal? I just need a starting point when I do the mod and put on the Muzzy full system.
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serius blk
Zone Head
Posts: 543
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posted June 25, 2006 07:47 PM
zx1kr have you gotten the pc3 in. I want to order my parts this week and want to see if i could get them this week. If not does anyone know of anybody caring them.
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14black
Expert Class
Posts: 280
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posted June 25, 2006 07:47 PM
I'd just like to see one more person run a completely stock bike for A/F ratios on the low-end with the flies removed...I think alot of us are looking for just that...
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zx1kr
Pro
Posts: 1301
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posted June 25, 2006 08:07 PM
I haven't got them in as of yet. I'm hoping for this week!
14black as far as AFR on a stock bike w/o flies that one I cant do for ya, got the pipe on already. But, if someone wants to get on the dyno w/ that set-up to see what the AFR looks like let me know.
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dubious
Needs a life
Needs more time to ride!
Posts: 8442
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posted June 26, 2006 02:23 PM
I want to thank Bill for sending me the map.
I did run it , and a couple of others too this weekend.
It will be a good SAFE start for those determined to run without flies.
He has done the public here a great service by giving away a map.
Thanks to Bill. He has went out on a limb to give everyone a place to start, which will PREVENT engine meltdown.
With a pipe , flies out , the idle and bottom power are erratic.
Even with a map.
Don't seem to be anyway around it but to install them and find a way to control them, rather than remove them.
Kawi uses them for idle control too.
The cams are lumpy, and the flies smooth out the idle, due to the poor vacuum.
The idle surges without em.
Brock has tried on the dyno, and I have on the street, it suffers when hot if set up smooth when motor is cold., and vice versa.
Hang tough, if you haven't removed them don't.
Someone will have found a way to control the flies, rather than remove em.
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natural selection.....
destiny will overcome intervention.
Some are not worthy of the effort.
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EASY
Expert Class
Posts: 183
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posted June 27, 2006 03:50 AM
I think with a pipe, removing the secondarys calls or some good tuning. I can say, with a stock bike, removing them is like adding a whole new meaning to "low end power". Mine idles perfect---no flat spots, and responds to throttle inputs a lot faster. On my bike, it has been the best mod I have ever made---ever. I am going to leave my stock exhaust on the bike as I like it just the way it is. I will add a pc for the quick shift option. It is fast enough for me.
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earl b
Parking Attendant
Posts: 17
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posted June 27, 2006 04:23 AM
I kind of look at it this way. The bike is a 9 second machine WITH the secondary plates in. The bike by all accounts, with the plates in, exhaust, pc and mapped will push well over 200 at the crank and will almost run 8's. All of this is accomplished with a smooth running ZX-14 that behaves very well during everyday riding.
What kinda confuses me is that after 5,000 the plates are wide open anyway, so after 1st gear, they are a moot issue. Am I missing something here?
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iflyphi
Zone Head
Posts: 542
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posted June 27, 2006 10:09 AM
Nope, your not missing a thing. The horsepower and torque will be the same, it's just that you get that power "quicker". Seems the engine revs more freely to redline, but that's very problematic on a pro-street bike at the drags. You really need the flies to help control the launch. Without them it would be like having a lock-up clutch set way to tight, your gonna loop it or spin the tire.
Brock is supposedly working on a fix of some sort.
Just remember, horsepower/torque are exactly the same flies in or out past about 5000 or so rpm.
Now if I could just figure out how to launch this bitch I'd be doing good.
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zx1kr
Pro
Posts: 1301
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posted June 27, 2006 12:13 PM
If time permits, I will be mapping the 14 completely tonight from idle to WFO & everything in between. I'll let you guys know how it feels & I'll post results w/explanations.
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MasterBlaster
Expert Class
Posts: 297
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posted June 27, 2006 01:14 PM
I am running the map you sent, and I believe it is a little rich, the pipes are a little sooty, but otherwise it is pretty good. If you come up with an improved version, I would like to try it also. I will be taking it to a tuning center, but it will probably be toward the end of July before I can get it done. And thanks, I really appriceate the what you are doing....TB
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zx1kr
Pro
Posts: 1301
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posted June 27, 2006 05:54 PM
 Edited By: zx1kr on 27 Jun 2006 18:55
Well, I have completed a full & indepth tune. I have to go pick up my truck from tthe dealer. When I get back I will disclose the results.
Sorry to leave you guys hangin, But the wife is freakin' she's gotta drive me!
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